T_S_A_R Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Interesting that for the present at least, uci seem to be backing Armstrong and I think it's safe to assume that they will oppose any TDF title stripping because, if the Armstrong case is even partly based on anecdotal evidence, then titles would have to be stripped all the way back to at least 1967 . it's eyewitness testimony. and obviously the uci are backing him. verbruggen and mcquaid are up to their necks in it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 UCI illegal payments go and look it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 1345828085[/url]' post='6560717']Really not the thread for it but again TSAR is spot on. Doping in other sports is prevalent, I for one can't wait for the day tennis is busted wide open. Back to XBL where is the evidence? Covered up by Pat the rat and the corrupt UCI. Go and read Paul Kimmage. If you want to keep up your current line of thinking, I'd say you are seriously misinformed or more likely just ignorant. The USDA can't strip the Tour wins, but they've opened the door to the people who can. USDA have stripped him of his tour titles. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/lancearmstrong/9497915/Lance-Armstrong-stripped-of-seven-Tour-de-France-titles-and-banned-for-life-for-doping-by-USADA.html Now we will get newco fans on here demanding his titles back saying its nothing to do with Armstrong it's the company that runs armstrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckles Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 it's eyewitness testimony. and obviously the uci are backing him. verbruggen and mcquaid are up to their necks in it! Yeah, but there's been eyewitness testimony on the go since at least the "Tommy Simpson" tour of '67....it just seems that no one wanted to see it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckles Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 USDA have stripped him of his tour titles. That only works if the uci accept it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 USDA have stripped him of his tour titles. Right cheers, I'm playing catch-up a little here, obviously story has developed since the last time I saw which is when it was breaking at 3am! A word has to go out to Greg Lemond and the Andreu's amongst several others, who've stuck to their guns in the face of huge criticism from the Armstrong loyalists, they probably thought the day would never come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Yeah, but there's been eyewitness testimony on the go since at least the "Tommy Simpson" tour of '67....it just seems that no one wanted to see it ! normally we have omerta where no one talks. the omerta was broken by floyd landis and tyler hamilton who to be fair aren't the most credible witnesses. however that sparked a grand jury investigation which forced dave zabriskie, christian vandevelde, jonathan vaughters and george hincappie to tell the truth or face jail for perjury (like marion jones). they are all credible witnesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunfellaff Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Personally I think he was innocent. You are all forgetting that he had a natural advantage, that of riding a stone less than anyone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckles Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 normally we have omerta where no one talks. the omerta was broken by floyd landis and tyler hamilton who to be fair aren't the most credible witnesses. however that sparked a grand jury investigation which forced dave zabriskie, christian vandevelde, jonathan vaughters and george hincappie to tell the truth or face jail for perjury (like marion jones). they are all credible witnesses. This is true, but some people were talking back in the 60s when Tommy Simpson said that anyone not doping, would have been ostracized by the rest of the peloton. Problem was....no one wanted to listen. Btw, I wonder if big George would also have testified against his old mate, as recent stories said that he had an axe to grind with Lance . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbling Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Only a matter of time before tax cheat onionist Chris Hoy is done for "frosting" his bran flakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myshkin Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Not sure that I agree with the Wiggins analogy though, that seems borne of cynicism given the improvements in testing, the biological passport and Wiggins apparent willingness to publish blood results. More likely to do with the Brailsford inspired boring powerfest that allows them to dominate just like USPS did. I'm not sure testing has improved, certainly not at the same rate as avoiding/masking detection has. Also the biological passport, while a nice idea, is a bit of a sham. And lastly does Wiggins 'apparent willingness' stretch to an actual willingness?. I've seen no evidence that it does. Yeah because is impossible for a clean athlete to win the tour. Largely true but there are exceptions. Greg Lemond for one and only this year Ryder Hesjedal in the Giro. It can happen but granted not often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I'm not sure testing has improved, certainly not at the same rate as avoiding/masking detection has. Also the biological passport, while a nice idea, is a bit of a sham. And lastly does Wiggins 'apparent willingness' stretch to an actual willingness?. I've seen no evidence that it does. Largely true but there are exceptions. Greg Lemond for one and only this year Ryder Hesjedal in the Giro. It can happen but granted not often. wiggins published once. some expert haemotologist said his values were dodgy. vaughters said the guy was a crank. it turned out the guy was one of the top people in his field. now wiggins says he won't publish because the uci advise him not to. why do you think hyjsedal is clean? wiggins and vandevelde have been extremely dubious on garmin. hysedjal took time in the mountains and the TT in the giro which to me is dodgy. the more i hear from vaughters the more i think his full philosphy is pr bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 They should just let everyone go at it to make it a level playing field. I'd love to see 200 doped-up cyclists gunning down the Alps stoned out of their tits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Utter fail if you are actually being serious? The riders health for one, just think about Ricardo Ricco, he'd probably be willing to kill himself by juicing to the max, just to entertain us, ken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebeneezer Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 How can he be stripped of ALL titles? Surely the governing body can only take action on the evidence they have collected. If Armstrong failed a drugs test after one event, or even certain events, you can't assumes he was doped at all other races. If the police apprehend a drunk driver, they can't then say, oh I saw you driving last night, you must have been pissed then as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 The evidence collected must be overwhelming then I'd presume? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 If any of you are on Twitter Race Radio is a good follow, as is Dr Michele Maserati. Festina girl is good with the retweets as well. Good when the story was breaking at 3am! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddy Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 go and cycle up a long hill;then imagine the really long climbs they do in the tour that totally dwarf what youve just climbed;throw in 2 or 3 of these,add 200 plus kilometres at racing speed and only 2 days off in 23 days.then throw in relly competitive guys and teams determined to get exposure for the jersey which means you do it or get nowhere in the sport and,finally,add in a world governing body that for years tried to pretend there wasnt a problem Any rider winning day in, day out, in the mountains is suspicious enough. Just look at those who can do it once in a week, if not a whole tour, then look at those top 5's from the 7 wins. These aren't just any joe cyclist, these are the top guys in the world, & they can't produce everyday. But the best of the best, why they NEVER bonk (Landis excepted-the day before he tested +ve). Landis Stage 16 Landis Stage 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 He has failed a test before and produced a back-dated doctors note... highly suspicious but he doesn't get the bad press that others get so people outside of cycling don't know that side of things. If he was anybody else, he would have been condemned years ago, and anyone who thinks that he hasn't doped at times in his career is naive beyond belief! You are probably the same lot who think that sports stars would never throw a competition for a few quid and act surprised that Italian football has a problem with match fixing. http://velonews.competitor.com/2005/08/tour-de-france/lequipe-alleges-armstrong-samples-show-epo-use-in-99-tour_8740 "Throughout his career only one test showed indications of the presence of doping products. In the 1999 Tour, a urine sample showed small traces of cortico-steroids. Armstrong was cleared, however, when his U.S. Postal team, produced a medical certificate showing that he used a cream to ease the pain of a saddle sore. Even that sample, however, was below the levels that would have triggered a positive result at the time." In case you didn't see it: Even that sample, however, was below the levels that would have triggered a positive result at the time." And this is IT? This is the research I should go and do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Fail. He has a test at the Tour de Suisse which showed the presence of EPO. Covered up once again by the UCI. Can't remember what year off the top of my head. Hopefully Armstrong's admission of guilt, and that's what it is, is the first in a long line of admissions that'll ultimately uncover the corrupt nature of McQuaid, Verbruggen, et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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