T_S_A_R Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 My return to the top level of the sport coincided with signing at Team CSC in 2004 and I want to briefly explain my side of the story. I know that much has been said about what allegedly happened there and about the man that is the figure head of that team. I am not going to defend him as a person but rather as an organisation and what it did for me personally. This organisation gave me two things that no illegal substance could ever truly provide. It gave me back my self-respect and my self-confidence. That was all that I needed to perform at the highest level. This was my personal experience. At no time was I offered or did I receive any sort of blood manipulation nor did I witness any systematic doping within the team. I found that I could compete without it and my results during that period were achieved clean. That being said, what happened before the 2006 Tour de France changed my outlook into what we all thought we were buying into when we joined that team. right you are bobby. the truth is obviously not quite as nice as an olympic silver medal. we know that at least basso, zabriskie and hamilton were doping on csc while jullich was there but we are meant to believe he was getting his results - winning paris nice and the silver medal - clean. another example of this whole affair being damage control on lance rather than a new dawn for clean riding. will anyone ask brailsford if he thought jullich rode clean when he finished behind pantani and ullrich in the 1998 tour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnash Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 contador's comments are fair i think. is it right that the same fans, press, uci and sponsors that treated lance like a god are now lynching him? Um... maybe that's because they thought he was clean and now it turns out he wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Um... maybe that's because they thought he was clean and now it turns out he wasn't. that probably applies to some fan(boy)s. i don't think think it applies to the media, other riders, sponsors or the uci. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Thought I'd bump this rather than put it in the other cycling thread Lance Armstrong considering confession Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Thought I'd bump this rather than put it in the other cycling thread Lance Armstrong considering confession he can only fully redeem himself if throws the uci and nike under the bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I find the Paolo Bettini remarks on Armstrong a bit stupid. Mibbe Bettini could own up to his own doping misdemeanors at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 He's appearing on Oprah next week, I'm sure she will ask him all the tough questions that need answered.... http://m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/09/lance-armstrong-oprah-winfrey-interview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 owning up will cost him millions and open him to charges of perjury in front of a federal grand jury. on the other hand he will look ridiculous if he denies using performance enhancing drugs to win yellow jerseys. i'm intrigued and if i was betting i'd sway towards him making a confession in an attempt to take control of the story and come back into public life. can you stream oprah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 owning up will cost him millions and open him to charges of perjury in front of a federal grand jury. on the other hand he will look ridiculous if he denies using performance enhancing drugs to win yellow jerseys. i'm intrigued and if i was betting i'd sway towards him making a confession in an attempt to take control of the story and come back into public life. can you stream oprah? It's being streamed on her website, apparently. Bit of a shitebag move going on Oprah. If he'd called a press conference then at least journalists who knew about the sport and the case would be able to question him or even be there. Apparently it's being done in his house so there isn't even a studio audience. David Walsh was on Five Live today saying that one of Armstrong's motivations is that he wants to compete in marathons and triathlon. As above, an admission could cost him millions of dollars and see him put in prison - does he like triathlon THAT much? I was talking to my work colleague today about this and one thing that came out of the testimony was that guys like Hamilton and Hincapie had conflicting feelings about doping. Obviously, they did it but it weighed on them and they had guilt. Hincapie said that after Armstrong retired he decided to stop doping and rode clean for the rest of his career, acting a 'quiet mentor' to younger riders to ride clean. Hamilton spoke about how he felt about bein a doper, feelings of guilt and shame. No-one in their testimony ever said that Lance Armstrong displayed any conflict about doping, not one person. Maybe he will go on and say it wasn't really cheating and he hasn't done anything wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 David Walsh was on Five Live today saying that one of Armstrong's motivations is that he wants to compete in marathons and triathlon. As above, an admission could cost him millions of dollars and see him put in prison - does he like triathlon THAT much? the triathlon thing is a red herring. what he wants, imo, is to be able to re-assume his place in public life. since the usada report he has been hiding away stuck in a kind of limbo where everyone knows what he did but he can't talk about it. lance and his people will see this as his first step on the road to redemption, the public loves a comeback and since most americans don't actually care about the cheating (only the lies) it should be easy enough to repair his public persona but he needs some sort of confession to kick it all off. you are guaranteed to hear that he is "coming clean for children but also so he can get back to leading the fight against cancer which is more important than one man." I was talking to my work colleague today about this and one thing that came out of the testimony was that guys like Hamilton and Hincapie had conflicting feelings about doping. Obviously, they did it but it weighed on them and they had guilt. Hincapie said that after Armstrong retired he decided to stop doping and rode clean for the rest of his career, acting a 'quiet mentor' to younger riders to ride clean. Hamilton spoke about how he felt about bein a doper, feelings of guilt and shame. No-one in their testimony ever said that Lance Armstrong displayed any conflict about doping, not one person. Maybe he will go on and say it wasn't really cheating and he hasn't done anything wrong. george hincapie who was 3rd in the 2007 prolouge and 24th over all that year? in stage 19 george's team discovery placed 4 riders in the top 7 of the final time trial. the other 3 were levi, contador and popovych who were almost certainly doping. bruyneel and sean yates were still running the team, do you honestly think hincapie wasn't doping? he is a cheat and a liar and worthy of no respect. in 2009 he was helping lance even though he was in a different team and finished 17th despite being 36 years old. that does not strike me as a clean and repentant rider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 a 90 minute show streamed live at half two in the morning next friday. looks like i'll be going to work on a couple of hours sleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I didn't realise that about Hincapie. I think his testimoy says he stopped in 2007 so he may have doped on that tour. Certainly people like Hamilton and Landis had qualms about doping, maybe Lance just didn't care. I suppose people might come round to his 'journey' (bleurgh, terrible phrase) if he confessed. Cycling fans will know the score but then most people with the wristbands and books aren't cycling fans, going along with what TSAR said about getting back into public life. He could do a new book etc. Edit - He must be confessing, he can't just repeat "500 drug tests" for 90 minutes can he? Oprah totally ambushed James Frey when his book was exposed as lies, maybe she'll do the same, smuggle Paul Kimmage in to grill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Edit - He must be confessing, he can't just repeat "500 drug tests" for 90 minutes can he? Oprah totally ambushed James Frey when his book was exposed as lies, maybe she'll do the same, smuggle Paul Kimmage in to grill him. i think oprah will sympathetic but she's not a mug. there has to be something in it for her and that's the confession. if it's 90 minutes of flimsy denials she would look a fool (in front of a global audience) and there is zero chance of her allowing that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I am just looking at Lance's Twitter account, he links to an article by Graham Watson saying It took a "photographer" to "write" the most balanced piece we've seen yet The article is on this link He was ambitious, ruthless, highly talented, tough, he knew how to lead his teammates and intimidate his rivals to make sure he won. But is he any different from a President, an army General, a corporate leader of industry, a career politician, or any other sporting great?Outright angels do not win a Tour de France. That is the domain of the most talented, hard, driven, ruthless and selfish riders. Lance did what he had to do to win, and he clearly did it very well. If he cheated, he cheated the other cheats of that era, even if by doing so he also cheated an adoring public. He didnt kill anyone along the way, and as a father of five, hes no child molester either. For me, his punishment outweighs the alleged crimes, for a lifetime ban from all sports seems quite draconian in this day and age. Im surprised USADA hasnt also fixed an ankle-bracelet to Armstrongs leg, just in case he tries to sneak into a triathlon or ultra-distance running event in disguise. Maybe in time hell appeal his sentence and another sport can get to see what an extraordinary athlete Armstrong still is triathlon almost did. Sounds like this will be the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I didn't realise that about Hincapie. I think his testimoy says he stopped in 2007 so he may have doped on that tour. Certainly people like Hamilton and Landis had qualms about doping, I actually have far less respect for these weasels. Like a husband caught cheating on his wife saying "I felt guilty afterwards though, so it's not as bad as if I hadn't" If you do the crime, do the time. They were happy to take the fame, success and money that cheating brought them. Can't believe anyone buys any of this conflict nonsense. The regret and remorse comes after being caught, strangely enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 If you do the crime, do the time. They were happy to take the fame, success and money that cheating brought them. Can't believe anyone buys any of this conflict nonsense. The regret and remorse comes after being caught, strangely enough. exactly. hincapie and the garmin mob were in no hurry to tell the truth until it was possible they could be jailed if they continued lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I actually have far less respect for these weasels. Like a husband caught cheating on his wife saying "I felt guilty afterwards though, so it's not as bad as if I hadn't" If you do the crime, do the time. They were happy to take the fame, success and money that cheating brought them. Can't believe anyone buys any of this conflict nonsense. The regret and remorse comes after being caught, strangely enough. Absolutely, I've no doubt that plenty of people said they regretted it when they enthusiastically embraced it at the time. I'm sure some were conflicted though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 David Walsh on C4 News says that if Marion Jones went to prison for lying about doping why shouldn't Lance Armstrong? Fair question. He also said that Lance has no future as someone that can be admired and that if he could ask one question it would be "how could you lie to the cancer community, making it appear that you were an icon when you were in fact a fraud?" Dunno if Walsh will be getting the follow up interview tbh (to be honest). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 David Walsh on C4 News says that if Marion Jones went to prison for lying about doping why shouldn't Lance Armstrong? Fair question. He also said that Lance has no future as someone that can be admired and that if he could ask one question it would be "how could you lie to the cancer community, making it appear that you were an icon when you were in fact a fraud?" Dunno if Walsh will be getting the follow up interview tbh (to be honest). jones was involved in some sort of fraud case as well which complicates matters a bit. however we'll just say it's because she's black and he's white and friends with george w bush. the novitzky federal investigation was made to disapear, i don't think lance's friends in high places will let him go to jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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