Sammysbackcomb Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Tortilla Flat - John Steinbeck It's about a group of Paisanos (Countrymen) who inhabit a small rural area in Monterey on the Californian coast after WWI. They spend their days trying to acquire wine and Steinbeck embellishes these uneducated men with a dignity which makes the story funnier but also seperates perceived and largely psychologically constructed social divides. I love Steinbeck so the novel has great positives. However, it's one of his early novels and doesn't have a formal narrative although that doesn't stop it from being an excellent read. 8.5/10 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammysbackcomb Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I enjoyed the first "Girl" book, but couldn;t get into the second one at all, sadlky. The ending was definately a muddke, it could have either been stretched out or saved for the second book. I thought that would have been the point of a book initially named "Why men hate women" or such likes. The Girl books were either badly written or poorly translated in my opinion. However, even allowing for that the lack of subtley and the way in which the narrative unfolded according to investigations which didn't seem plausible contributed to my dislike of the book. Also, it was drawn out and the characters were all amoral without drawing the reader's sympathy except the Girl herself and even she indulged in sadistic torture which ironically contributed to the mysoginy. I read it based on recommendations but there are so many excellent classic novels that I haven't read that modern pop cr*p like this should stay in supermarket chains imo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 The Girl books were either badly written or poorly translated in my opinion. However, even allowing for that the lack of subtley and the way in which the narrative unfolded according to investigations which didn't seem plausible contributed to my dislike of the book. Also, it was drawn out and the characters were all amoral without drawing the reader's sympathy except the Girl herself and even she indulged in sadistic torture which ironically contributed to the mysoginy. I thought the title journalist was a pretty sympathtic character, as was his business partner and the Henry Wagner, I'm sure if I tried to remember there would be someone else. I'm not quite sure how Lisbeth contributed to mysoginy? But it;s been a few years so I may be rusty on some details. Again, I can;t remember any implausible investigations techniques but I could just be forgetting them. I'd expect that side to be fairly well grounded, given the author was an investigative journalist. In fact, if i;m honest, a strong biography of the author may be more appealing to me than reading the rest iof the trilogy. I read it based on recommendations but there are so many excellent classic novels that I haven't read that modern pop cr*p like this should stay in supermarket chains imo. Mmmm, I'm a big believer in the art being subjective line, I wouldn't hail a classic for the sake of it, or write something off as cheap tat becuase it looks like an airport book. In fact, if I'm honest, I reckon there's more literary worth in taking something "low culture" and trying to make capital L literature out of it. The Girl with a Dragon Tattooo was astonishingly dervivative - Chandler,McDiarmid are two other crime writers that immediately came to mind reading it, but being derivative doesn;t have to be a bad thing, it's sequel just didn't grab me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 Mmmm, I'm a big believer in the art being subjective line, The thing about reading, much like music, is that people forget at times that it's about entertainment. A lot of very "worthy" books are exceptionally dull. You can admire the writing, recognise the talent etc. but do you think "Can't wait to read the next chapter of this?" Often, in my experience, no. And that's what reading is about to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 The thing about reading, much like music, is that people forget at times that it's about entertainment. A lot of very "worthy" books are exceptionally dull. You can admire the writing, recognise the talent etc. but do you think "Can't wait to read the next chapter of this?" Often, in my experience, no. And that's what reading is about to me. Yeah spot on, I've ploughed through "classics" out of a sense of duty, but not really "felt" them. It;s all subjetive. And when I see ertain types of books being run down for being cheap or tacvky I invariably think of Shakespeare, who was writing the renaissance equivalent of American Pie and Con Air but is now feted. Times, cultures,attitudes and tastes are too varied, and can change too much, to write any book off as being "unworthy" Now I'm off to read some comic books.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 The thing about reading, much like music, is that people forget at times that it's about entertainment. A lot of very "worthy" books are exceptionally dull. You can admire the writing, recognise the talent etc. but do you think "Can't wait to read the next chapter of this?" Often, in my experience, no. And that's what reading is about to me. Totally agree. It's meant to be something you enjoy doing in your spare time. Human beings love stories, whether it's soaps, computer games, books, etc. Books are the most rewarding in my opinion, but if I was trying to encourage someone to start reading I'd hand them a page-turner before Wuthering Heights. It would put you off forever! One thing I would say about reading though is that there is a progression as you get older if you're reading consistently. Your vocabulary increases, your knowledge of certain areas increases and you end up reading books you never though you would when you were younger. Book I'm reading just now I'm looking up a word every few pages, but I don't see it as a bad thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullywee Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Totally agree. It's meant to be something you enjoy doing in your spare time. Human beings love stories, whether it's soaps, computer games, books, etc. Books are the most rewarding in my opinion, but if I was trying to encourage someone to start reading I'd hand them a page-turner before Wuthering Heights. It would put you off forever! One thing I would say about reading though is that there is a progression as you get older if you're reading consistently. Your vocabulary increases, your knowledge of certain areas increases and you end up reading books you never though you would when you were younger. Book I'm reading just now I'm looking up a word every few pages, but I don't see it as a bad thing. don't believe a word that this 'napoleon of crime' says 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammysbackcomb Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) I thought the title journalist was a pretty sympathtic character, as was his business partner and the Henry Wagner, I'm sure if I tried to remember there would be someone else. I'm not quite sure how Lisbeth contributed to mysoginy? But it;s been a few years so I may be rusty on some details. Again, I can;t remember any implausible investigations techniques but I could just be forgetting them. I'd expect that side to be fairly well grounded, given the author was an investigative journalist. In fact, if i;m honest, a strong biography of the author may be more appealing to me than reading the rest iof the trilogy. Mmmm, I'm a big believer in the art being subjective line, I wouldn't hail a classic for the sake of it, or write something off as cheap tat becuase it looks like an airport book. In fact, if I'm honest, I reckon there's more literary worth in taking something "low culture" and trying to make capital L literature out of it. The Girl with a Dragon Tattooo was astonishingly dervivative - Chandler,McDiarmid are two other crime writers that immediately came to mind reading it, but being derivative doesn;t have to be a bad thing, it's sequel just didn't grab me. The journalists had very low sexual morals and showed a lack of faithfulness to each other. The old man was obsessive and apparently conducted a meticulously researched investigation with all the resources he had at his disposal and found nothing in spite of one of his family being guilty (Implausible and a character I couldn't warm to). The only one i could moderately warm to was the woman who had killed her father and whose brother (?) was the murderer. I generally don't remember the names of characters of a book I didn't like btw. Lisabeth (thanks for reminding me) tortured a man who treated her abysmally and raped her and she in turn exercised control over him which were all sadistic acts with a sexual connotation. Mikeal was able to trace people from 20 odd years back based on faded photographs; slighly ridiculous but how come the CEO of a global organisation who'd been analysing this for 20 odd years found nothing. C'mon mate. I have no doubt the author was a good journalist but to me a very by the numbers thriller that would have been written in a better narrative by Harlen Coben or Michael Connolly. Edited June 7, 2011 by Sammysbackcomb 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammysbackcomb Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Yeah spot on, I've ploughed through "classics" out of a sense of duty, but not really "felt" them. It;s all subjetive. And when I see ertain types of books being run down for being cheap or tacvky I invariably think of Shakespeare, who was writing the renaissance equivalent of American Pie and Con Air but is now feted. Times, cultures,attitudes and tastes are too varied, and can change too much, to write any book off as being "unworthy" Now I'm off to read some comic books.... I said there are a lot of classics that should be read in my opinion before modern pop novels. I have read "War and Peace" for example and it's an excellent read with compelling characters, a gripping narrative and an excellent psychological dimension that transcends time. As for plays and films, I thought we were talking about books? Taste is the main differentiation to any reading preferences but whereas I found any Tolstoy book rewarding I find a lot of pop novels, quick and easily forgotten. i did find the Epilogues in WAP a bit heavy going but they're more akin to a sociological thesis rather than a novel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammysbackcomb Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Totally agree. It's meant to be something you enjoy doing in your spare time. Human beings love stories, whether it's soaps, computer games, books, etc. Books are the most rewarding in my opinion, but if I was trying to encourage someone to start reading I'd hand them a page-turner before Wuthering Heights. It would put you off forever! One thing I would say about reading though is that there is a progression as you get older if you're reading consistently. Your vocabulary increases, your knowledge of certain areas increases and you end up reading books you never though you would when you were younger. Book I'm reading just now I'm looking up a word every few pages, but I don't see it as a bad thing. I thought that comment was really incisive and you're right; it's knowing the audience. You're also right about progression; I adore Steinbeck as a 20th Century writer but before that there were absolute belters being written especially in the 19th C. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 The journalists had very low sexual morals and showed a lack of faithfulness to each other. The old man was obsessive and apparently conducted a meticulously researched investigation with all the resources he had at his disposal and found nothing in spite of one of his family being guilty (Implausible and a character I couldn't warm to). The only one i could moderately warm to was the woman who had killed her father and whose brother (?) was the murderer. I generally don't remember the names of characters of a book I didn't like btw. Lisabeth (thanks for reminding me) tortured a man who treated her abysmally and raped her and she in turn exercised control over him which were all sadistic acts with a sexual connotation. Mikeal was able to trace people from 20 odd years back based on faded photographs; slighly ridiculous but how come the CEO of a global organisation who'd been analysing this for 20 odd years found nothing. C'mon mate. I have no doubt the author was a good journalist but to me a very by the numbers thriller that would have been written in a better narrative by Harlen Coben or Michael Connolly. I liked the books. So they're good. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 The journalists had very low sexual morals and showed a lack of faithfulness to each other. That's because they weren't in a monogamous relationship, in fact they weren;t in a relationship at all. The fact they had a very liberal sexual lifestyle was clealry part of the politics of the book and the character, I don't see how it;s unsympathetic. The old man was obsessive and apparently conducted a meticulously researched investigation with all the resources he had at his disposal and found nothing in spite of one of his family being guilty (Implausible and a character I couldn't warm to). Again, I don't see how that's unsympathic, he was an old man chasing his lost..erm niece I think(?) Lisabeth (thanks for reminding me) tortured a man who treated her abysmally and raped her and she in turn exercised control over him which were all sadistic acts with a sexual connotation. Yeah, that was the point. How are her actions misogynystic though? Mikeal was able to trace people from 20 odd years back based on faded photographs; slighly ridiculous but how come the CEO of a global organisation who'd been analysing this for 20 odd years found nothing. Who knows, i can;t remeber the particular, perhaps Mikael was just a better investogator than the CEo or the police, there has to be a certain suspension of belief. I said there are a lot of classics that should be read in my opinion before modern pop novels. I have read "War and Peace" for example and it's an excellent read with compelling characters, a gripping narrative and an excellent psychological dimension that transcends time. As for plays and films, I thought we were talking about books? . It was more a point about high/low culture. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammysbackcomb Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I liked the books. So they're good. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin M Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 If anything I thought the book was stronger for Salander and Blomqvist's moral "ambiguity". It did annoy me though that Blomqvist was clearly a bit of the author projecting his fantasy self onto the page. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 The Wind on Fire books, cracking 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Not a big reader myself but just got my way through 'The Stratigraphic Nomenclature of the Netherlands' after starting a couple of months ago. A belter of a read. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldWasp Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Currently reading "I'll Sleep when I'm dead" by Crystal Zevon - a biograpy of the late great Warren Zevon. A real warts and all biography - essential reading for any fans of his music - turns out some of his weirdest and most perverse songs are autobiographical. Not a well-written thesis but an oral history made up of interviews with those that knew him & worked with him. For those who havent discovered his music - you are missing out! For those who have listened to WZ - there are details on how and when some of the songs were written - which is a lot more interesting than how it sounds! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 don't believe a word that this 'napoleon of crime' says 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) As I said, by any reasonable understanding of morality from a non sky fairy thralled individual, that is a disgusting statement. If you are reading a book with a homosexual character in it, does that also make you "cold"? there is no one set or defined morality. everyone has to find the moral code that is right for them. the last book i read was cat and mouse by gunter grass. it's a man telling the story of his childhood friend 'the great mahlke' and their exploits as school boys in danzig/gdansk during ww2. it's not near the level of the tim drum which is grass's masterpiece but it's still pretty damn good. the book is almost two stories running parralel, one being the antics of the teenage boys and the other dealing with how people who are percieved to be different can be alienated from society. it's a nice understated story which is well written and equally funny and sad, i'll definitely be getting the third part of the trilogy the next i time pillage amazon. i'm reading lolita now. paedo-tastic. Edited June 7, 2011 by T_S_A_R 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 there is no one set or defined morality. everyone has to find the moral code that is right for them. Well, quite. That's my point. Though what personal morality has to do with reading fiction, I have no idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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