Walking Down The Halbeath Road

[kiddy]

This is complete stunt.

As has been said, they've got a "Fans group" to underwrite the Admin's fees, when they'll be substantially more than settling the HMRC bill!

Two fans groups have walked away from negociations & the last train left town days ago. Now they come up with a stalling tactic in Administration.

Exactly what assets are there to administrate, the players? They become the property of the SFL on liquidation, they have no ground & no training facilities, zippo.

There's only league membership, & the Clubs 'good' name, with membership also disappearing on liquidation. Strange how they've a prospective seasons biggest crowd tomorrow, with anything up to £100k cash coming in.

IMO, both HMRC & the court should be asking, why aren't you settling the debt & so desperate to enter admin and exactly WHO is fronting this cash, as the whole situation is set up through a myriad of GM's companies.

If I were a Pars fan & found out it was the Collectives, that had been shaking buckets (& paying leccy bills), forking out, I'd be livid. As any chance to buy 100% of the club from the liquidator would now be gone, along with the cash.

Just bear in mind, John Boyle still owned the majority of shares in M'well once they were through the other side.

[parslad]

Dundee twice,Livingston twice,Rangers and now Dunfermline. Their fans all quite happy to big themselves up when their clubs squander other people's money to gain some advantage. Why should people have sympathy for clubs who are happy to turn over local business.The fans of those clubs would be quite aware that their clubs would sooner or later crash. When it happens it is everyone elses fault.

Can you show me the posts where Pars fans are blaming others? Or are you talking shite?

[dafcburty]

HMRC pushing for Liquidation - does DAFC have a chance?

Do we honestly stand a chance in the CoS tomorrow when HMRC put their Liquidation proposal forward? Why should the Court accept our Admin proposal ahead of HMRC's Liquidation one? I felt quite relieved earlier when I first heard the news...but now, now I'm just feeling deflated. IMO, the game is up! HMRC will persuade the CoS tomorrow that DAFC no longer deserve to be a company trading and wind us up. Tomorrow is D-Day...Death-Day! RIP Pars!

[The Duck of Death]

Falkirk....the original trend setters and still the only club to payback every last penny.

We still get stick for Brockville though.

I liked Brockville but the wee stinky toilet was minging.

[ScottyC]

Are HMRC not a minor creditor here though. Surely the major creditor (Masterton himself) is the only one that could veto administration?

[Ivo den Bieman]

Dundee twice,Livingston twice,Rangers and now Dunfermline. Their fans all quite happy to big themselves up when their clubs squander other people's money to gain some advantage. Why should people have sympathy for clubs who are happy to turn over local business.The fans of those clubs would be quite aware that their clubs would sooner or later crash. When it happens it is everyone elses fault.

I am glad that Dunfermline seem to have a chance of surviving, they are a grand old club with decent fans and I would be really sad to see them go to the wall.

That said, the nasal whine 'aw ah wants a team tae support on a Setirday' is wearing very, very thin with each successive administration, particularly when it has involved over a decade's worth of supporter myopia (opther than an honourable small minority). In the worst recession in living memory it's simply not on for hard pressed local businesses to be fucked over just so a dwindling number of fans can watch a football team once a fortnight. It's gorge-rising in fact.

The mitigating factor is that Dunfermline have been engulfed in what appears to be high level corruption within Scottish football, and the fall out from it, as well as being caught up in a web of extremely dubious business practices. It's one thing to go into administration spending money you don't have, quite another to be unwittingly ensnared in a complex web of failing companies propped up with eye-archingly generous loans.

Someone should go to jail over this. The invisible linkage of fat wee men in Masonic lodges, high ranking police uniforms, shiny mayoral chains, and shinier bankers' suits, will ensure that 'someone' doesn't, of course.

The ownership of Scottish football clubs- who owns them, on whose behalf, and with what level of accountability- is as big an issue for the game right now as reconstruction is. The broader societal issue that has allowed loathsome sociopaths like Masterton to flourish like athlete's foot in a cheap trainer in the last twenty to thirty years also needs tackeld head on. Narrow minded, self interested, self important wee men who chair half a dozen committees, sit at the top table of Rotary Club / Sportsemn's dinners, and who have built up a 'formidable business reputation' on the back of, well, f**k all, are as big a problem for Scotland- particularly provinicial Scotland- as a drug dealer, violent criminal, etc. Those last named crooks might commit more high profile and immediately damaging crimes, but the insidious drip-drip of hidden corruption, nods and winks, causes much more long term damage and upset across a much wider range of society IMO.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Ivo den Bieman

[Pride_of_the_Clyde]

I think that's a tad OTT, Sarge.

When clubs start to run themselves as such and not money making ventures then we'll have a much more stable system.

Unfortunately the one's who have given themselves over to owners who have borrowed to purchase their stake will go the same way as Dunfermline.

Those who run themselves as small time local leisure clubs and use their facilities to provide this have nothing to fear and we will slowly get there after this period of turmoil.

It has nothing to do with the number of teams in a division or knocking £5 or £10 off the price of a ticket.

[graeme_p]

Is it possible that admin is a way of sweetening the deal for a buyout. The big stumbling block seems to be the big BoS loan and the seperation of stadium and club. If admin makes the big loan reduce and can somehow impact on the Stadium debt you would have a viable business for the white night to save.

[Fife Saint]

I am glad that Dunfermline seem to have a chance of surviving, they are a grand old club with decent fans and I would be really sad to see them go to the wall.

That said, the nasal whine 'aw ah wants a team tae support on a Setirday' is wearing very, very thin with each successive administration, particularly when it has involved over a decade's worth of supporter myopia (opther than an honourable small minority). In the worst recession in living memory it's simply not on for hard pressed local businesses to be fucked over just so a dwindling number of fans can watch a football team once a fortnight. It's gorge-rising in fact.

The mitigating factor is that Dunfermline have been engulfed in what appears to be high level corruption within Scottish football, and the fall out from it, as well as being caught up in a web of extremely dubious business practices. It's one thing to go into administration spending money you don't have, quite another to be unwittingly ensnared in a complex web of failing companies propped up with eye-archingly generous loans.

Someone should go to jail over this. The invisible linkage of fat wee men in Masonic lodges, high ranking police uniforms, shiny mayoral chains, and shinier bankers' suits, will ensure that 'someone' doesn't, of course.

The ownership of Scottish football clubs- who owns them, on whose behalf, and with what level of accountability- is as big an issue for the game right now as reconstruction is. The broader societal issue that has allowed loathsome sociopaths like Masterton to flourish like athlete's foot in a cheap trainer in the last twenty to thirty years also needs tackeld head on. Narrow minded, self interested, self important wee men who chair half a dozen committees, sit at the top table of Rotary Club / Sportsemn's dinners, and who have built up a 'formidable business reputation' on the back of, well, f**k all, are as big a problem for Scotland- particularly provinicial Scotland- as a drug dealer, violent criminal, etc. Those last named crooks might commit more high profile and immediately damaging crimes, but the insidious drip-drip of hidden corruption, nods and winks, causes much more long term damage and upset across a much wider range of society IMO.

Great post.

[kiddy]

Considering GM is owed £8.5M, HMRC £135k, the staff £100K, all the other creditors add up to approx £500k. So with a p in the £ payout likely, how much of the pot do you think the real victims will get?

I hope the CoS knock them back & the REAL fans groups buy 100% of THEIR club from the liquidator. If they do things the right way & back THEIR side, & investment, they could be back within 10 years.

[Rasta Ton]

Presumably voluntary administration is a ploy by Masterton to secure his position as majority shareholder and biggest creditor with perhaps secured creditor status. All of course meaning that the process will be run in his favour and he'll likely get so many pence in the pound rather than lose the lot through liquidation.

[Rasta Ton]

Falkirk....the original trend setters and still the only club to payback every last penny.

We still get stick for Brockville though.

No you're not.

[Fife Saint]

Presumably voluntary administration is a ploy by Masterton to secure his position as majority shareholder and biggest creditor with perhaps secured creditor status. All of course meaning that the process will be run in his favour and he'll likely get so many pence in the pound rather than lose the lot through liquidation.

What security does he have?

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

What security does he have?

For his sake I hope it's the Krays.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

Almost as good as the Jim Holmes one at the same ground. Classic own goal and one which I reckon a lot of Pars fans have a fondness for seeing.

Aye maybe, but did Jim Holmes effectively cost us the league?

Eh, naw.

[MCL]

Dunfermline should probably have gone into admin the first time Livi did because we were tied together with the Stadia deal. BoS called in Livi's debt but didn't touch Dunfermline, most likely due to Masterton's connections. And when you see the deals on loans he had with BoS that no other person or company would be allowed, it's no surprise.

They made the mistake of still paying big wages after relegation with the hope of bouncing straight back when history would have told them that the odds were against them.

[Rasta Ton]

What security does he have?

Secured creditor status is given to creditors who have legals security over a company's assets in return for giving credit. Eg your mortgage is given by the bank on the basis that they have security over your house. Given the money Masterton has loaned the Pars I'd be surprised if he hasn't securitised the loans somehow. Craig Whyte was a secured creditor at Rangers and the voluntary administration suited him at the time.

[Double Jack D]

Could it be that the buckets being filled by fans and the cash raised by saturdays non published attendance are paying the admin fees?

Also, could this be the plan once admin agreed?

1. Punt what players you don't want after the falkirk game

2. 10 to 25 point deduction, possible relegation.

3. Offer 0p in the pound to creditors as no assets, only Masterton and his cronies can veto as nobody else has 25% of debt.

4. Cva agreed by default Ala Dundee.

5. Out of Admin.

6. Start next season leaner, debt free and Masterton still in charge but a hero for writing off debt.

7. Masterton sells debt free, leaner business to fans group and leases club stadium for monthly fee.

8. Next time to worry is when the fucker pops it and the bank wants its cash back.

Possible?

[Fife Saint]

Secured creditor status is given to creditors who have legals security over a company's assets in return for giving credit. Eg your mortgage is given by the bank on the basis that they have security over your house. Given the money Masterton has loaned the Pars I'd be surprised if he hasn't securitised the loans somehow. Craig Whyte was a secured creditor at Rangers and the voluntary administration suited him at the time.

I work in commercial banking, I'm well aware of what a security is.

I was trying to establish what security you think Masterton has against the company.

[Rasta Ton]

I work in commercial banking, I'm well aware of what a security is.

I was trying to establish what security you think Masterton has against the company.

I've no idea but given his loans to Dunfermline and the way the whole thing's structured and the fact they're going for voluntary admin I'd be surprised if he he doesn't have some security to put him at the front of the queue. If you work in commercial banking your bonus could probably buy the pars.