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Walking Down The Halbeath Road

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1 hour ago, Stellaboz said:

Can I see your workings? 

Back of the fag packet stuff. Since SD is openly mocking the figures you can assume its way out. I seem to remember him chastising LOOK AT ME IM IN THE KNOW behaviour on a few occasions.

I always zone in on the playing figures so Hamilton being an easy source. If the average is about 40k a year then their playing budget is about £1,000,000

I assume that noone can compete with that in this division despite the £3 million lost by Dundee United the other year.

A few years ago I pegged Falkirk's playing budget at around £800,000 if I remember correctly and I assume Dunfermline will be less than that.

3000*14 home games* 12 a head (although looking at it should probably be £18) = £504,000   on top of prize money on top of sponsorships etc etc. 

 

 

Edit: for the record this is an example of the costs without the website hosting because I don't know that is but everything else is pretty calculable

image.thumb.png.52ac6b7769803b7727fef465d1ea2fd3.png

 

Edited by LeodhasXD

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1 hour ago, LeodhasXD said:

I think you'd need about double to break even based on my math.

Reported. Hope you get banned.

1 hour ago, Grant228 said:

Where have the figures been released for the streaming? 

The commentator said it during the second half.

1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said:

😂

 

?

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The figures are only PPV and don't include season tickets. This was mentioned in an interview.

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1 hour ago, LeodhasXD said:

Back of the fag packet stuff. Since SD is openly mocking the figures you can assume its way out. I seem to remember him chastising LOOK AT ME IM IN THE KNOW behaviour on a few occasions.

I always zone in on the playing figures so Hamilton being an easy source. If the average is about 40k a year then their playing budget is about £1,000,000

I assume that noone can compete with that in this division despite the £3 million lost by Dundee United the other year.

A few years ago I pegged Falkirk's playing budget at around £800,000 if I remember correctly and I assume Dunfermline will be less than that.

3000*14 home games* 12 a head (although looking at it should probably be £18) = £504,000   on top of prize money on top of sponsorships etc etc. 

 

 

Edit: for the record this is an example of the costs without the website hosting because I don't know that is but everything else is pretty calculable

image.thumb.png.52ac6b7769803b7727fef465d1ea2fd3.png

 

I've no idea where you're going with this. I've offered no view on what Dunfermline's costs are. I don't know enough about their off field income and expenses to do so (and neither do you or probably even most of the Dunfermline fans).

I'm openly mocking the notion that fortnightly gate receipts of £19k is insufficient to run a full time football club. That's clearly not true. It may or may not be enough for Dunfermline's existing cost base but that's a different question.

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12 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

I'm openly mocking the notion that fortnightly gate receipts of £19k is insufficient to run a full time football club. That's clearly not true. It may or may not be enough for Dunfermline's existing cost base but that's a different question.

It doesn't seem like an awful lot, 40k a month doesn't seem allot. 

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10 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I've no idea where you're going with this. I've offered no view on what Dunfermline's costs are. I don't know enough about their off field income and expenses to do so (and neither do you or probably even most of the Dunfermline fans).

I'm openly mocking the notion that fortnightly gate receipts of £19k is insufficient to run a full time football club. That's clearly not true. It may or may not be enough for Dunfermline's existing cost base but that's a different question.

£19k a fortnight surely isn't enough to pay all the players, coaching staff, medical staff, medical expenses (including insurance), stadium staff, other club staff, ambulance hire, stadium maintenance costs, utility/power rates of the stadium, food, bus hire, hire of training facilities and so on.

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10 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

£19k a fortnight surely isn't enough to pay all the players, coaching staff, medical staff, medical expenses (including insurance), stadium staff, other club staff, ambulance hire, stadium maintenance costs, utility/power rates of the stadium, food, bus hire, hire of training facilities and so on.

You know that's in addition to season ticket sales and league and SFA funding right? And anything you make from your gym, lottery, Pars United funding, etc? And that's without mentioning you just sold a player for a reputed £0.25m!

EDIT - And you won't have any ambulance hire, or probably much in the way of stadium staff whilst games are closed door.

I can assure you in normal times Queen of the South's fortnightly gate receipts were nowhere near averaging £19k and we were full time last I looked (and made a profit last year).

Edited by Skyline Drifter

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32 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I've no idea where you're going with this. I've offered no view on what Dunfermline's costs are. I don't know enough about their off field income and expenses to do so (and neither do you or probably even most of the Dunfermline fans).

I'm openly mocking the notion that fortnightly gate receipts of £19k is insufficient to run a full time football club. That's clearly not true. It may or may not be enough for Dunfermline's existing cost base but that's a different question.

So you don't know enough about Dunfermline's finances to make an estimate but know enough to rubbish mine. Forgive me if that sounds a little ignorant. I'm clearly talking about Dunfermline's existing cost base that's exactly where I was going...

I don't expect mine have any accuracy but it's fun to put it into the calculator and run with it.

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59 minutes ago, LeodhasXD said:

So you don't know enough about Dunfermline's finances to make an estimate but know enough to rubbish mine. Forgive me if that sounds a little ignorant. I'm clearly talking about Dunfermline's existing cost base that's exactly where I was going...

I don't expect mine have any accuracy but it's fun to put it into the calculator and run with it.

Except I didn't rubbish yours. I rubbished the notion that you couldn't run a full time football club off the level of Dunfermline's streaming. And then you apparently saying you'd need at least double that to do so. It certainly wasn't clear to me you were being specific about Dunfermline. The initial post you quoted wasn't.

For what it's worth, I would assume Dunfermline's streaming income is certainly lower than their walk up attendance income would have been but without knowing the average price of a matchday entrant (which probably isn't all that much higher than streaming prices) or whether their season ticket sales held up at all or are considerably lower than normal, it's very difficult to compare that to normal income levels. I doubt it's as little as half but who knows? The important thing here though is that even if gate receipts themselves are halved, it doesn't correspond to overall club income halving which seems to be the assumption everyone is making. The SPFL and SFA support is at least the same if not bigger than it was last season.

And again, I'll point out that this is a club who have sold a player for £250k or thereabout this season. I'm going to bet they post a profit for the year.

Edited by Skyline Drifter

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I'm going to bet the club doesn't post a profit this season.

Chairmen everywhere are saying that the streaming model isn't sustainable. I'm to take their word here.

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17 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

I'm going to bet the club doesn't post a profit this season.

Chairmen everywhere are saying that the streaming model isn't sustainable. I'm to take their word here.

Chairmen everywhere didn't sell a player for a quarter of a million pounds! Of course the streaming model isn't long term sustainable. Nobody's saying it is. Or at least not at your current levels of outgoings. Streaming will never replace match attendance income or reach the same numbers. Dunfermline would be going some however to lose £250k on everything else to outdo the Nisbet sale funds though. Or was it considerably less than that? It was reported as a £250k deal but that may well include long term incentive clauses based on Premiership appearances or international honours.

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Dunfermline like most clubs at this level weren't exactly known for their break-even budgeting before the Nisbet sale though. That could well just be plugging a gap from last season's accounts before you even consider the impact of binning the final quarter of the season.

It's also very unwise to draw conclusions from streaming income after seven months of almost no football at this level. The real test will of be in January, February etc. when home and away fans are being asked to pay another £12 or whatever Dunfermline are charging when they could watch better football on their existing TV subscriptions instead. I obviously don't think that's what SD is doing here but the point is that losing more than £250k is readily done by half the division in a normal season at this level - with the caveats around this one in particular, losses could be much higher than that. 

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46 minutes ago, virginton said:

Dunfermline like most clubs at this level weren't exactly known for their break-even budgeting before the Nisbet sale though. That could well just be plugging a gap from last season's accounts before you even consider the impact of binning the final quarter of the season.

It's also very unwise to draw conclusions from streaming income after seven months of almost no football at this level. The real test will of be in January, February etc. when home and away fans are being asked to pay another £12 or whatever Dunfermline are charging when they could watch better football on their existing TV subscriptions instead. I obviously don't think that's what SD is doing here but the point is that losing more than £250k is readily done by half the division in a normal season at this level - with the caveats around this one in particular, losses could be much higher than that. 

Dunfermline's level of losses and whatever hole they had last year are irrelevant in terms of current year profit though. I'm not talking about cashflow where the NIsbet cash, and any money from Germany may well be plugging holes, I am talking about a financial year running from 1st June 20 to 31st July 21. In that period they'll account for the whole of the unconditional Nisbet sale (and any conditional caveats he achieves during this season). They will also have used furlough fairly extensively for the first three months so it's not a normal year in cost terms, though Dunfermline did also bring in some new signings very early on who presumably were paid for without any external funding.

All that said, I've just looked up their last published accounts to May 2019 and they reported a £700k loss then! So maybe won't make a profit then, Nisbet sale or not!

The 2nd paragraph I agree with entirely. There's a novelty to streaming at the moment. If indeed it does prove the necessity for the entire season or majority of it then I agree numbers are likely to fall off a bit. We've veered off into discussing Dunfermline's finances though which was never my point. My initial input was just to laugh at the notion that a gross income including VAT of £19k a fortnight for "gate receipts" is not sufficient to run a full time football club. It certainly is enough if you cut your cloth accordingly. I'm not saying it is sustainable at that level or that income of that level would sustain Dunfermline. Dunfermline's turnover in the year to May 2019 was about £1.8m in total but I've no idea how it broke down by source. They probably got circa £300k of it from SPFL / SFA funding given they finished relatively low in the table and made no massive cup progress.  However there will be clubs such as mine and indeed yours, Inverness, possibly Ayr and Raith sustaining full time football off lower gate receipts than that almost certainly.

Edited by Skyline Drifter

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I totally agree it would be sustainable.

 

 

If you're a perma-diddy club like QS. 

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I totally agree it would be sustainable.
 
 
If you're a perma-diddy club like QS. 
That's even worse than QOTS.

Heads Gone from me incoming.

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7 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

That's even worse than QOTS.

Heads Gone from me incoming.

Is there not a weird pronunciation for your nickname aswell? It isn't evidently clear unless you vote tory, hate the poor and Scottish independence? 

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Is there not a weird pronunciation for your nickname aswell? It isn't evidently clear unless you vote tory, hate the poor and Scottish independence? 
No

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18 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:

QS- The Doonhammers

 

Right? 

If you say hammers then you want kids to have food. 

 

If not you support QS and hate Marcus Rashford. 

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