Walking Down The Halbeath Road

[DA Baracus]

 

4 hours ago, Poet of the Macabre said:

Not a very reassuring interview whatsoever. Ramming home the idea that people should be grateful they even have a club five years on is not something that's going to resonate with many Pars fans.

With AJ, it seems like Ross is taking the line I expected; everyone else sacks people too quickly and we're not going to make that mistake. I'd point out that Partick Thistle gave Alan Archibald too long out of loyalty and now they're in an absolute state. Archibald should have been given his jotters long before he did and that's a guy who achieved far more than AJ has.

McArthur also contradicts himself by saying we're behind teams because they have greater resources - but then adds we have an advantage because of the Lifeline fund? It surely can't be both, although I'm sure he was just trying to get out a shot at County and United.

I'm really not a fan of the tone coming out of the club just now tbh. I've put a lot of money into the club in recent years, as have thousands of others and I don't think anyone appreciates being lectured to about putting in more cash when those in charge seem quite happy to just let things drift because "we're lucky to still have a club". Add that to AJ hinting about the fans having an impact on the poor home form and it's not been great PR recently.

Think you're talking utter shite here. Can't see any lecturing to fans to put in more money. I do see what I would say is pretty much a plea for fans to continue with the lifeline and a stark reality of what will happen if the club loses that revenue stream. He doesn't really contradict himself about the advantage that brings either, since he clearly names the sort of teams he's on about (i.e. ones of similar size). Of course we're behind the likes of County and United in terms of resources.

I think you're getting carried away because we've been poor for most of the season and the board haven't punted the manager yet. I don't think anyone is letting the club 'drift', and indeed the article pretty much says that; Looking for improvement isn’t just restricted to on the pitch; McArthur is tapping constantly into other clubs for advice, or ways of working that could be implemented at East End for the better, and is keen to engage with supporters.

There are things in the statement that are complete nonsense (the youth thing Grant points out saying we have the best squad in 5 years, which we blatantly don't). Your point about Partick and Archibald may be true, but equally it could be an isolated example. 

We do still need to punt the manager mind.

Hopefully anyone who has issues/questions can get along to the meeting, or at least get someone who can to put their questions to the board.

[Poet of the Macabre]

7 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

Think you're talking utter shite here. Can't see any lecturing to fans to put in more money. I do see what I would say is pretty much a plea for fans to continue with the lifeline and a stark reality of what will happen if the club loses that revenue stream. He doesn't really contradict himself about the advantage that brings either, since he clearly names the sort of teams he's on about (i.e. ones of similar size). Of course we're behind the likes of County and United in terms of resources.

I think you're getting carried away because we've been poor for most of the season and the board haven't punted the manager yet. I don't think anyone is letting the club 'drift', and indeed the article pretty much says that; Looking for improvement isn’t just restricted to on the pitch; McArthur is tapping constantly into other clubs for advice, or ways of working that could be implemented at East End for the better, and is keen to engage with supporters.

There are things in the statement that are complete nonsense (the youth thing Grant points out saying we have the best squad in 5 years, which we blatantly don't). Your point about Partick and Archibald may be true, but equally it could be an isolated example. 

We do still need to punt the manager mind.

Hopefully anyone who has issues/questions can get along to the meeting, or at least get someone who can to put their questions to the board.

You really do get your knickers in an almighty twist when anyone fails to bend the knee for the great Ross McArthur, huh? Can only assume you know him personally to get so offended anytime there's a negative post about the board. I think they've done a great job but that doesn't mean he's immune to criticism.

The whole thing at the Falkirk game was "let's not get complacent" about the Lifeline fund. Surely we should be looking to get the club into a situation where we're not totally reliant on the fans? They didn't actually mention what would happen if we lost this revenue stream; is it admin? Liquidation? Less money for signings?

He does contradict himself because he says we have an advantage over Queen of the South and Morton - two sides above us in the table - but then complains that we're not higher in the league because of teams with higher budgets.

As for quoting a line from a puff piece in the Press as proof that the club are being ambitious, there's not a chance you're that naive.

 

[DA Baracus]

Please give it a rest with the offended patter. It just makes you, and anyone who comes out with it, a bit simple who have no thoughts of their own. Perhaps you'd like to try the 'seething' and 'raging' stuff next.

I've never met the guy. Could be a total dick for all I know. I do think he and he and the board have done a good job though.

Not sure what you mean about the stuff at the Falkirk game. What happened?

The club aren't reliant on the lifeline to stay afloat. This is clearly stated in the article.

Saying that someone is talking nonsense seems to me like criticism. I said some of the stuff he said was nonsense.

Maybe the board/club are not being ambitious. What's the argument for that though? That they haven't sacked the manager? Ambition isn't measured in that way.

Edited November 22, 2018 by DA Baracus

[Rob1885]

On 11/21/2018 at 14:23, Grant228 said:

https://www.dunfermlinepress.com/sport/17233464.pars-chairman-ross-mcarthur-remarks-on-five-years-at-east-end-park/

Interview with Ross McArhur, doesn't seem like AJ is close to being punted tbh. 

I can't help but feel he's really overplayed how young this squad is, like massively so. 

Looking at our starting lineup and the only young player in it was Keena really, even the subs we've brought in aren't really young guys. 

This team is not better than eithder the teams we had in 16/17 or 17/18. He's talking nonsense there.

[D.A.F.C]

10 hours ago, DAFC. said:

My thoughts exactly. I travel from Glasgow to watch us and I've decided not to bother now as I've spent (wasted?) enough money on us this season and I'm not doing it anymore as going to EEP this season has been the football equivalent of attending a Little Mix concert with your daughter: counting down the minutes until you can get the f**k out and get home. 

That’s exactly it. I always go positive and hope for a good game. What’s really frustrating this season is the constant long balls to small strikers and the inevitable part of the game where the opposition start to come back into it. It’s like seeing a bus coming in slow motion and doing nothing about it.

When the goal goes in quite a few people just get up and walk out. I find this quite sad really. Fans having no fight left in them because they’ve seen it so many times now. Also after this you get the random abusive shouts that give you a fright, some old guy has been coming to the boil for 80 mins then “JUST F**K OFFF” or maybe the ref is to blame for it all. It will get even worse and fans starting to fight and argue with each other.

The board are naive here and I’d say most fans are scunnered with it. Maybe the atmosphere at home games is bad but only after we go behind. At the Falkirk game the fans created lots of noise and sang for most of the match. As said the Morton game will decide it, if we lost on sat then again it will turn ugly.

[D.A.F.C]

50 minutes ago, Rob1885 said:

This team is not better than eithder the teams we had in 16/17 or 17/18. He's talking nonsense there.

The team has more depth than when we came up but lacks fight, a goalscorer and a captain. Moffat was also pretty crucial to us imho.

On paper we should be top five at least but if you don’t have the three things above there’s no chance. Falkirk already look better after a few games, United also. Patrick are still meh but that’s a bad appointment.

Changing a successful formation into a mess because he signed the Longridges has been a total disaster. Higgy getting injured too.

Theres a good team in there somewhere though, not good enough to take us into the playoffs probably unless we change AJ.

[Rob1885]

1 hour ago, D.A.F.C said:

The team has more depth than when we came up but lacks fight, a goalscorer and a captain. Moffat was also pretty crucial to us imho.

On paper we should be top five at least but if you don’t have the three things above there’s no chance. Falkirk already look better after a few games, United also. Patrick are still meh but that’s a bad appointment.

Changing a successful formation into a mess because he signed the Longridges has been a total disaster. Higgy getting injured too.

Theres a good team in there somewhere though, not good enough to take us into the playoffs probably unless we change AJ.

I'd only say that it's got more depth due to sheer numbers.

 

A starting 11 of Murdoch, Williamson, Morris, Ashcroft, Talbot, Higgy, Herron, Geggan, McMullan, Moffat, Clark would absolutely skoosh this current side. That's leaving out the likes of Fordyce,  Cardle, McCabe, Wedderburn who would walk into this team. Then you've got your Lewis Spences, BREs and Gavin Reillys of this world who have went on to better themselves. That's an indictment in itself. Team has went back in 2 years and with a bigger budget.

 

[Poet of the Macabre]

9 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

Please give it a rest with the offended patter. It just makes you, and anyone who comes out with it, a bit simple who have no thoughts of their own. Perhaps you'd like to try the 'seething' and 'raging' stuff next.

I've never met the guy. Could be a total dick for all I know. I do think he and he and the board have done a good job though.

Not sure what you mean about the stuff at the Falkirk game. What happened?

The club aren't reliant on the lifeline to stay afloat. This is clearly stated in the article.

Saying that someone is talking nonsense seems to me like criticism. I said some of the stuff he said was nonsense.

Maybe the board/club are not being ambitious. What's the argument for that though? That they haven't sacked the manager? Ambition isn't measured in that way.

A lot of your posts seem very angry so you can't be surprised when people assume you're easily upset. Just insulting anyone who calls you out on it doesn't make them "simple".

At the Falkirk game, guy got on the mic at half time to talk about how great the Lifeline Fund is and how it's "vital" for the club's future. It sounded very much like a gentle rebuke because numbers have dropped recently. Maybe I took it the wrong way but felt like the club were rattling the charity buckets again.

How is ambition measured for you? Do you think we're showing "a strong desire to succeed"? Both Ross McArthur and Allan Johnston have talked about taking us "back where we belong" in the top flight. That's clearly not going to happen and hasn't looked likely at any point in our three seasons in the Championship so far. Now, I don't think we "belong" in the Premiership but since the club clearly do, things are going very poorly just now.

[Poet of the Macabre]

As a general point, I'm surely not the only one fed up with having my intelligence insulted with AJ's post-match comments? 4 points out of 21 at home and I'm told it's just because of poor finishing and bad luck? Or because the fans are getting on the players backs? Does he realise that if the sign of a good team is winning when you're not playing well, then the sign of a bad one is losing when you are?

I have backed AJ for *years* when plenty of others had long since given up on him. It really has to get bad for me to want a manager sacked but we're there. I always phone my Dad after I've been to a game and he told me the only time I've sounded excited about the Pars this season was the opening day win at Dundee United. I'll keep going for now but I really don't have the disposable income to keep chucking money at something I don't enjoy.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Poet of the Macabre

[Stellaboz]

If anyone has genuine concerns you should raise the points up with the club directly. You WILL get a timely response.

Honestly if anyone is so concerned about things, don't just sit back and moan about it, do something. If enough fans are questioning, maybe it will help the board know a truer feeling of the how the support sees things as they stand.

[Poet of the Macabre]

10 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:

If anyone has genuine concerns you should raise the points up with the club directly. You WILL get a timely response.

Honestly if anyone is so concerned about things, don't just sit back and moan about it, do something. If enough fans are questioning, maybe it will help the board know a truer feeling of the how the support sees things as they stand.

I might email them and ask where the real Ryan Williamson is being kept and how can we rid of the trickster that's taken his place this season.

[DA Baracus]

4 hours ago, Poet of the Macabre said:

A lot of your posts seem very angry so you can't be surprised when people assume you're easily upset. Just insulting anyone who calls you out on it doesn't make them "simple".

At the Falkirk game, guy got on the mic at half time to talk about how great the Lifeline Fund is and how it's "vital" for the club's future. It sounded very much like a gentle rebuke because numbers have dropped recently. Maybe I took it the wrong way but felt like the club were rattling the charity buckets again.

How is ambition measured for you? Do you think we're showing "a strong desire to succeed"? Both Ross McArthur and Allan Johnston have talked about taking us "back where we belong" in the top flight. That's clearly not going to happen and hasn't looked likely at any point in our three seasons in the Championship so far. Now, I don't think we "belong" in the Premiership but since the club clearly do, things are going very poorly just now.

Don't agree. Blunt at times yes, but not angry for the most part (although of course we've all made angry posts since football can cause anger). I think you've bought in to the 'seething' patter. It's a very easy way for someone to try and discredit someone else's opinion/views. In reality it's complete nonsense. Same with the 'offended' stuff. The implication is that the person is a raging simpleton who should be dismissed. It's an insult, so don't be surprised when someone turns it around. Perhaps I'm wrong though, so maybe you can point out some posts where I seem angry?

Anyway, totally off topic.

Can't comment on the Falkirk stuff other than to say that if it did come across as lecturing or the like then I would agree that it was poor and unnecessary. I do think though that a lot of fans don't get how much the lifeline helps with the player budget (as stated in the article, we'd have a budget similar to the likes of Morton if it wasn't in place). Although this does work against the manager as it shows that, despite this advantage, he isn't doing the business.

Ambition is measured for me by planning to be so and doing all they can to make these plans come to fruition. The board have backed the manager as much as they can. They've hired a sports scientist. They've built the new gym at the ground. They're looking to make other improvements. They're trying to engage with supporters. Ambition also needs to be tempered by reality, and the reality of the club is that finances are very tight and must be managed extensively. This means patience from all, and sticking to long term goals, even if it means changing things to get there.

But if it's just on if a manager is sacked or not, then the board's job is simply hiring and firing surely? And they'd be firing an awful lot of managers if ambition was just based on that.

Have you asked them why they haven't sacked the manager yet?

Again, I still think the manager should be replaced. I get why they haven't and why they feel they should give him more time, but don't agree with it.

 

Also post match comments are always nonsense. No idea why anyone pays them the slightest attention. Almost no manager will say that the team is shit and that they're doing a rubbish job. They'll all say the same boring things. No idea why Johnston has this held against him more than any other manager, since they've all done it.

[HoBNob]

4 hours ago, Stellaboz said:

If anyone has genuine concerns you should raise the points up with the club directly. You WILL get a timely response.

 

Does anyone have any genuine concerns with how the club is run though? The board have done a great job financially with the club, my only concern is that we gave AJ such a long contract and that we haven't parted company yet, and speculating on your highest paid employees future wouldn't be terribly professional from the BoD.

 

Likewise I'd be shocked if they decided to sack him because that belter Grant from PnB has pointed out we're never getting promoted with AJ in charge. 

17 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Again, I still think the manager should be replaced. I get why they haven't and why they feel they should give him more time

I genuinely don't if I'm being completely honest, I was surprise he wasn't laid off on the Saturday after the Falkirk game, but I couldn't see any way in which he'd survive the Monday. 

[DA Baracus]

1 minute ago, Grant228 said:

Does anyone have any genuine concerns with how the club is run though? The board have done a great job financially with the club, my only concern is that we gave AJ such a long contract and that we haven't parted company yet, and speculating on your highest paid employees future wouldn't be terribly professional from the BoD.

 

Likewise I'd be shocked if they decided to sack him because that belter Grant from PnB has pointed out we're never getting promoted with AJ in charge. 

I genuinely don't if I'm being completely honest, I was surprise he wasn't laid off on the Saturday after the Falkirk game, but I couldn't see any way in which he'd survive the Monday. 

They feel that he's done enough previously (improvement every season and the playoffs last season) to be given time to turn it around. That he has turned things around previously might feature in their thinking. Furthermore there could be financial implications over doing it.

Not that I agree with any of the reasons mind. I too have joined the 'get him out' camp.

[Salvo Montalbano]

Can't comment on the Falkirk stuff other than to say that if it did come across as lecturing or the like then I would agree that it was poor and unnecessary. I do think though that a lot of fans don't get how much the lifeline helps with the player budget (as stated in the article, we'd have a budget similar to the likes of Morton if it wasn't in place). Although this does work against the manager as it shows that, despite this advantage, he isn't doing the business.



The board have backed the manager as much as they can. They've hired a sports scientist. They've built the new gym at the ground. They're looking to make other improvements. They're trying to engage with supporters.

I know we have overheads due to the stadium etc. but surely that can't be right? Morton have an older stadium with fewer corporate hospitality facilities (and no rooms for hiring out for businesses and parties etc. as far as I know), so they must have large overheads too. Their average crowds are about 3,000 less than ours - so how can that be right?

The board didn't build the Gym, it was the stadium owners group (some of whom are on the DAFC board AFAIK but they are separate entities).

[DA Baracus]

15 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

 

 

I know we have overheads due to the stadium etc. but surely that can't be right? Morton have an older stadium with fewer corporate hospitality facilities (and no rooms for hiring out for businesses and parties etc. as far as I know), so they must have large overheads too. Their average crowds are about 3,000 less than ours - so how can that be right?

The board didn't build the Gym, it was the stadium owners group (some of whom are on the DAFC board AFAIK but they are separate entities).

 

No idea, it was just stated in the article. Would have to take a look at the accounts.

Morton's crowds aren't 3000 less than ours though.

Edited November 23, 2018 by DA Baracus

[Salvo Montalbano]

No idea, it was just stated in the article. Would have to take a look at the accounts.
Morton's crowds aren't 3000 less than ours though.

Cursory web search brings this up. You could argue about the meaning of "attendance" etc. but it's around 3,000 paying customers.

[DA Baracus]

Our crowds aren't accurately reported. Let's not pretend they are.

[Salvo Montalbano]

Our crowds aren't accurately reported. Let's not pretend they are.

I don't think they are either but they are counted and have also paid for their tickets if they are season ticket holders who don't turn up. So we have a lot more (maybe not 3,000 but not far off it) people paying for tickets at East End than there are people who pay for tickets at Cappilow. It's not a difficult thing to grasp, surely?

[DA Baracus]

14 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

4 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

Our crowds aren't accurately reported. Let's not pretend they are.

I don't think they are either but they are counted and have also paid for their tickets if they are season ticket holders who don't turn up. So we have a lot more (maybe not 3,000 but not far off it) people paying for tickets at East End than there are people who pay for tickets at Cappilow. It's not a difficult thing to grasp, surely?

It's a fair point. I don't have an answer.