Walking Down The Halbeath Road

[Hannibal Lecturer]

Pars can't finish for good at Starks park tomorrow, no dignity in that.

Every Pars fan has to be there at the next home game and make it clear the club has fans who care.

Businessmen ruining clubs at a rate of 1 a year at the moment, is Romanov next?

These businessmen actually think they know better than even the stupidest of fans (Rangers come to mind) when it comes to running the game. They haven't got a fucking clue.

You wonder how they got on actually working for a living before they took a hobby fronting a football club.

Best of luck Pars.

[Tonsilitis]

Sporting integrity my arse. Clubs binned the idea because they weren't being paid enough to accept them. You'lll be telling me next. Longmuir is a good guy.

Clubs binned the idea because of pressure from fans, especially those holding season tickets!

[Tonsilitis]

Erm, you shouldn't be playing in the Third Division. It's that straightforward.

Go down the Clydebank and Gretna route and work out how a new club can progress.

Its not that straightforward at all. Just as it would have been crazy not to admit the club with the biggest or second biggest support in Scotland to the Scottish leagues, likewise the same applies to Dunfermline. There's an economic issue here that affects every club and Dunfermline, as a member of the Scottish leagues is far more attractive than almost any of the recent admissions to the league, Sevco excepted and certainly they are more attractive than almost any other candidates such as Spartans.

From a purely mercenary point of view, who will bring more to Cappielow when they visit?

[roverthemoon]

Your lack of sensitivity and total inability to empathise will cost you in life no matter what your IQ is!

Go easy on the boy. He's tied to an online persona he crafted as a youth. I'm sure in the real world he's a pussy cat

[dafcburty]

March the 26th is when the £134k debt to HMRC is due, according to John Yorkston on COWS. Also, we're apparently speaking to someone who's interested in joining who has connections to Switzerland...hmmm, I don't know what to believe about that one!!!

Anyway, could be DAFC's last ever home game next Saturday - I'll definitely be there, and I hope we can get as many fans in the ground as possible, hopefully more than we take to Raith tomorrow (and I believe we'll sell out the stand tomorrow!)

[Parscelona]

He's an absolute tube,

Our support has been good this season but the biggest disappointment has been the away support. When we played Cowdenbeath a couple of weeks ago they brought 180 - two years ago when they came there was about 1200."

Stop blaming others, you along with the Masterton family are to blame for our problems, no-one else.

[Mastermind]

You know what VT? You are a class A1 ar*e!

Dry your eyes champ. You're the one whose position towards debt cheats is flailing like a straw in the wind based on whether the club has a problem with bigotry or not. Any other provincial club could have chosen the same unsustainable route as Dunfermline: more prudent clubs like, say, Saint Johnstone were popping in and out of the First Division while Dunfermline were spunking an eight figure sum to reach European football and cup finals. The club has cheated their way to success over more than a decade.

Whatever happened to the "sporting integrity" being thrown around in the summer? Sporting integrity demands that cheats get their comeuppance, and that phoenix clubs should not be allowed to shed their debt for a name-change and a new start in the Third. Deal with it.

Absolutely fantastic post. Dunfermline deserve whats coming.

[vikingTON]

Its not that straightforward at all. Just as it would have been crazy not to admit the club with the biggest or second biggest support in Scotland to the Scottish leagues, likewise the same applies to Dunfermline.

So... nothing to do with sporting integrity then.

There's an economic issue here that affects every club and Dunfermline, as a member of the Scottish leagues is far more attractive than almost any of the recent admissions to the league

Oh, well that's alright then. What about the clubs attempting to field a competitive side without resorting to blatant cheating: what financial windfalls have they in fact lost as result of Dunfermline overtaking them over the last 15 years?

There should absolutely be a condition set that clubs who go out of business do not respawn in the lower reaches of the national setup.

From a purely mercenary point of view, who will bring more to Cappielow when they visit?

Why would Third Division sides regularly be visiting Cappielow in the near future?

Why were Gretna and Clydebank allowed to disappear from the national setup, yet for some reason we should be pulling out all the stops to keep Dunfermline in? They're just another provincial club: integrity demands that if DAFC go bust, they lose their place in the SFL.

[Only coo in the village]

Go easy on the boy. He's tied to an online persona he crafted as a youth. I'm sure in the real world he's a pussy cat

Indeed

[Shandon Par]

integrity demands that if DAFC go bust, they lose their place in the SFL.

I think you'd struggle to find a Pars fan who disagrees with you. If a new Dunfermline-based football club re-appears then it should have a good shout of getting into the current league setup based on what we could bring in terms of support. No favours asked for or expected. A pyramid would be the fairest though - working up past the likes of Rosyth and Kelty would be the only truly fair way to go.

I know you must be gagging to find the moral high ground but if the Pars go tits up you'll struggle to find a Par who doesn't want a 'phoenix' to earn its place in the league rather than have it granted on some vaguely associated past glory. We're not Sevco mk2.

[vince sinclair]

Putting the sympathy on hold for a second...

[Tonsilitis]

1) So... nothing to do with sporting integrity then.

2) Oh, well that's alright then. What about the clubs attempting to field a competitive side without resorting to blatant cheating: what financial windfalls have they in fact lost as result of Dunfermline overtaking them over the last 15 years?

There should absolutely be a condition set that clubs who go out of business do not respawn in the lower reaches of the national setup.

3) Why would Third Division sides regularly be visiting Cappielow in the near future?

4) Why were Gretna and Clydebank allowed to disappear from the national setup, yet for some reason we should be pulling out all the stops to keep Dunfermline in? They're just another provincial club: integrity demands that if DAFC go bust, they lose their place in the SFL.

1) The sporting integrity issue says that if you phoenix, you are a new club and have to reapply for admission to the league. That application is considered on its merits in terms of what do you bring to the league.

2) Absolute conditions are generally found to be absolutely rubbish in the real world

3) Don't talk rubbish. There is absolutely no way that Morton will not play Dunfermline at some point in the future should they be a member of the SFL. Even if we are in a higher league which will not always be the case, we may play them in cupties such as the one against East Stirling earlier this season!

4) Gretna died because they could not bring enough to the league to warrant re-admission. That is not the case as things stand with Dunfermline. Clydebank did not die. They live on under a different name!

[Shandon Par]

Without meaning any ill-will to the good people of Partick I hope Morton win the league and spare the fine people of SFL1 from VikingTon for a few months.

[vikingTON]

1) The sporting integrity issue says that if you phoenix, you are a new club and have to reapply for admission to the league. That application is considered on its merits in terms of what do you bring to the league.

Which didn't apply to Sevco, who were hand-waved through without due process. So as I said, sporting integrity was ditched.

The application process concerns sporting integrity, more so than it does benefits to the league setup. This is why Airdrie United's application was rejected in 2002: because allowing clubs to bin their debts, liquidate and start over in the Third is not fair nor honourable.

2) Absolute conditions are generally found to be absolutely rubbish in the real world

See above. Airdrie United quite clearly brought more to the leagues than Gretna. Gretna won the vote. You've bizarrely allocated DAFC some sort of central importance to the game, which other provincial clubs like Airdrie and Clydebank did not hold when they went under. Inconsistent and hypocritical approach.

3) Don't talk rubbish. There is absolutely no way that Morton will not play Dunfermline at some point in the future should they be a member of the SFL. Even if we are in a higher league which will not always be the case, we may play them in cupties such as the one against East Stirling earlier this season!

Why would Mr Rae decide who should enter the league based on the amount of fans attending one-off cup ties? Their economic 'value' is hardly central to anyone outside the Third Division.

4) Gretna died because they could not bring enough to the league to warrant re-admission. That is not the case as things stand with Dunfermline. Clydebank did not die. They live on under a different name!

Clydebank are dead. Gretna are dead. Their fans have formed new clubs in the non-leagues.

Why should DAFC not be treated in the same manner, in what seems to be the increasingly likely prospect of their club's liquidation? Phoenix clubs do not merit automatic re-admission under any circumstances, and the SFL clubs' bottling of the Sevco situation does not force them to do so again. Any application by a Dunfermline club should and I suspect will be rejected, if a reasonable alternate bidder wishes to enter the leagues.

Edited March 15, 2013 by vikingTON

[RandomGuy.]

The problem with Gretna was that they didn't have a structure in place quick enough to be an actual contender to retain their place.

Airdrieonians were the same, they were liquidated near the end of the season if not after, and didn't have a structure in place to warrant a league place. Although they eventually bought their way back

I'm not entirely sure what the conversation about Clydebank being rejected is about, as never once have the been rejected membership to the SFL. In fact they're technically still a member

Rangers had the finances and structure in place to be a contender to stay in the leagues, and thier huge support base meant they'd be re-admitted even if it went to a vote. Just like, ironically, Clydebank. Who have been re-born three times in their history, twice being re-admitted to the SFL and once after Airdrie consumed their club and SFL status

Edited March 15, 2013 by RandomGuy.

[Tonsilitis]

1) Which didn't apply to Sevco, who were hand-waved through without due process. So as I said, sporting integrity was ditched.

2) The application process concerns sporting integrity, more so than it does benefits to the league setup. This is why Airdrie United's application was rejected in 2002: because allowing clubs to bin their debts, liquidate and start over in the Third is not fair nor honourable.

3) See above. Airdrie United quite clearly brought more to the leagues than Gretna. Gretna won the vote. You've bizarrely allocated DAFC some sort of central importance to the game, which other provincial clubs like Airdrie and Clydebank did not hold when they went under. Inconsistent and hypocritical approach.

4) Why would Mr Rae decide who should enter the league based on the amount of fans attending one-off cup ties? Their economic 'value' is hardly central to anyone outside the Third Division.

5) Clydebank are dead. Gretna are dead. Their fans have formed new clubs in the non-leagues.

Why should DAFC not be treated in the same manner, in what seems to be the increasingly likely prospect of their club's liquidation? Phoenix clubs do not merit automatic re-admission under any circumstances, and the SFL clubs' bottling of the Sevco situation does not force them to do so again. Any application by a Dunfermline club should and I suspect will be rejected, if a reasonable alternate bidder wishes to enter the leagues.

1)Sevco were admitted to D3 maybe without due process. If due process had been applied would Scottish football or the rest of the third division for that matter, have turned down a club with home gates of 40K and away supports that fill most grounds? I dislike the old firm as much as any provincial fan but these are the hard realities and all that happened was that they were fast tracked.

2) As I read it, the application process is about what clubs bring to the league and are they controlled by fit and proper persons

3) Airdrie probably should have won the vote but those were different times when the realities facing clubs now were not appreciated. Admitting Gretna over Airdrie was a mistake which Scottish football and the SPL in particular paid dearly for!

4) For now we might be talking one off cupties but make no mistake, if they are re admitted, at some point Morton and Dunfermline will be in the same league

5) Clydebank were renamed Airdrie United and essentially adopted the persona of Airdrieonians. From that perspective they did die. From a corporate perspective they did not and that is what counts in terms of retaining league membership. Their directors sold out to another club and if they had not, they would have gone bust anyway!

[vikingTON]

1)Sevco were admitted to D3 maybe without due process. If due process had been applied would Scottish football or the rest of the third division for that matter, have turned down a club with home gates of 40K and away supports that fill most grounds? I dislike the old firm as much as any provincial fan but these are the hard realities and all that happened was that they were fast tracked.

This was balanced with the lack of sporting integrity, provided by letting a phoenix club walk into the setup. IIRC the Stranraer representative had the right idea by opposing both the First and Third Division proposals: the rest of Scottish football utterly bottled it.

A phoenix side for Dunfermline would not bring even remotely the same claims to the table though.

2) As I read it, the application process is about what clubs bring to the league and are they controlled by fit and proper persons

...and the legacy of cheating debts in the case of phoenix clubs.

3) Airdrie probably should have won the vote but those were different times when the realities facing clubs now were not appreciated. Admitting Gretna over Airdrie was a mistake which Scottish football and the SPL in particular paid dearly for!

No, they should have lost the vote regardless. Other clubs like Annan have done enough to show the merit of selecting non-league clubs. Teams like Cove and Spartans deserve the opportunity far more than a failed provincial club: that would apply to Morton were we to be in Dunfermline's predicament. Starting at the bottom, the real bottom, and working their way up on merit should be the only route available. I for one applaud some of the sensible Pars fans on here for recognising this option.

4) For now we might be talking one off cupties but make no mistake, if they are re admitted, at some point Morton and Dunfermline will be in the same league

That's the sort of hubristic determinism that has dragged Livingston from one bout of financial cheating to another. There is no guarantee that a Newco would keep the same fanbase for what could potentially be several demoralising campaigns in the Third.

5) Clydebank were renamed Airdrie United and essentially adopted the persona of Airdrieonians. From that perspective they did die. From a corporate perspective they did not and that is what counts in terms of retaining league membership. Their directors sold out to another club and if they had not, they would have gone bust anyway!

In corporate terms they are dead. No club represents the community of Clydebank in the national setup: 2002 formed a clear disconnect between the former history, and that of Airdrie United. Rangers' history went with the club that dies in 2012: there is again a clear disconnect between that and Sevco.

Meanwhile, we haven't addressed the fact that clubs such as Stirling Albion and Clyde have actually worked hard at removing their legacy of massive debt - and have paid the price for this in several shockingly bad campaigns. Why should clubs like these be further inconvenienced by allowing phoenix clubs to walk into the national setup, debt-free? It's a farce, and good luck finding businesses willing to work with Scottish football clubs in the future, if that were to become the sanctioned path for clubs to remove their debts.

Edited March 15, 2013 by vikingTON

[RandomGuy.]

The current Clydebank FC owns the original company name and insignia of the club that became Airdrie, and their Hall of Fame is filled with players who played for previous versions of the club

[craigster00]

Wow VickingTON, talk about obsessed. You'd have an entire fucking essay by joining together your posts.

[Gaz FFC]

This thread has taken a tedious turn.