Walking Down The Halbeath Road

[Rob1885]

I'm right in saying that the statement on the club website early november regarding the purvis gorup coming on board as directors was, as many on here called it out to be, a crock of shite?

[phantoms-livi-lass]

Remember, its not ParsAlive making the call, its the fans. Just because the last twice PA have handed over money, it doesn't mean it will continue to do so. Clearly, from the more transparency given by the BoD, it was decided to pay the Electric Bill - no Electric = bye bye instantly as no games and no money. All info still isn't clear, and should be provided ASAP, but its more info than we've had about the clubs finances than the 6 weeks previous since PA was set up. Furthermore, the £10k already donated is being converted into shares which is going towards the fans getting a bigger say in the club.

I'm not trying to defend PA, or the decision to hand over all the money. Merely just trying to clarify things and, in a way, playing devils advocate by trying to give a balanced view of proceedings.

Personally, I'm all for PA helping the club in return for something which is worthwhile. But, I also understand and agree with the new group, set to officially be launched tomorrow I believe, called Dunfermline Athletic Fans (4) Future. This group is the back up, I understand, and what PA was originally perceived to be their original aims.

Sorry if a lot of this doesn't make sense lol. I'm tired!

Cheers, it does make sense. I've not had a chance to go on .net yet but I'm relieved that there is a group being set up to build up & save funds, it's better to be prepared.

The electricity got cut off at Livi when Massone was being a w****r. Oh what a circus that was!

[swedishsale]

Remember, its not ParsAlive making the call, its the fans. Just because the last twice PA have handed over money, it doesn't mean it will continue to do so. Clearly, from the more transparency given by the BoD, it was decided to pay the Electric Bill - no Electric = bye bye instantly as no games and no money. All info still isn't clear, and should be provided ASAP, but its more info than we've had about the clubs finances than the 6 weeks previous since PA was set up. Furthermore, the £10k already donated is being converted into shares which is going towards the fans getting a bigger say in the club.

I'm not trying to defend PA, or the decision to hand over all the money. Merely just trying to clarify things and, in a way, playing devils advocate by trying to give a balanced view of proceedings.

Personally, I'm all for PA helping the club in return for something which is worthwhile. But, I also understand and agree with the new group, set to officially be launched tomorrow I believe, called Dunfermline Athletic Fans (4) Future. This group is the back up, I understand, and what PA was originally perceived to be their original aims.

Sorry if a lot of this doesn't make sense lol. I'm tired!

Not sure about this promise to exchange for equity. unless it has actually happened at the point of the money being handed over or there is a contract in place then the existing board cannot bind any future board to hand over any shares at all. hope you have your paperwork sorted?

[swedishsale]

I'm right in saying that the statement on the club website early november regarding the purvis gorup coming on board as directors was, as many on here called it out to be, a crock of shite?

Companies House certainly does not list Mr Purvis as a Director so i think your analysis is correct.

[Jimmy85]

There's got to be a reason Mr Purvis hasn't joined the board. It could be that Masterton has already stabbed him in the back and lied to him about money...

[P.C]

You know, that's exactly what I was thinking when I was blethering at you in the Penny a few weeks back...

Spandex and the Penny are not things you want to have in the same sentence....

Looking at the Dunfermline situation it seems to be a matter of when and not if the arse falls out of the club. I really feel for the fans who are trying their hardest to raise funds needed to keep the club afloat in the short term (thats how it reads to me anyway) tho had the board been more up front even a few months ago then the situation may be a little more positive whereas if any of your home games are called off in December it could end very badly

[Highlandmagyar]

Spandex and the Penny are not things you want to have in the same sentence....

Looking at the Dunfermline situation it seems to be a matter of when and not if the arse falls out of the club. I really feel for the fans who are trying their hardest to raise funds needed to keep the club afloat in the short term (thats how it reads to me anyway) tho had the board been more up front even a few months ago then the situation may be a little more positive whereas if any of your home games are called off in December it could end very badly

It seems that the BOD have been burying their heads in the sand and hoping it will all go away.

As supporters of clubs who have been through the wringer of financial troubles we know that, although life goes on and all that, its a gut wrenchingly HORRIBLE feeling to go through, with the possibility of your club dying.

I hope they pull it round. There are only 2 clubs I wouldnt but an eyelid if thet went bust, BUT wait a minutre 1 already has!!

[P.C]

It seems that the BOD have been burying their heads in the sand and hoping it will all go away.

As supporters of clubs who have been through the wringer of financial troubles we know that, although life goes on and all that, its a gut wrenchingly HORRIBLE feeling to go through, with the possibility of your club dying.

I hope they pull it round. There are only 2 clubs I wouldnt but an eyelid if thet went bust, BUT wait a minutre 1 already has!!

The thing that still astounds me is that this is a 2 or 3 year plan that went awray and the fans have had to pull together to bail the club out. This has been ongoing for about 10 years, 10. For the board to just assume this would rectify itself while yo-yoing up and down the SPL and first division while trying to keep all their big name players is insane. In honestly i think the club will end up in admin and would think a points deduction is probably more likely than anything else

[dafcburty]

Not sure about this promise to exchange for equity. unless it has actually happened at the point of the money being handed over or there is a contract in place then the existing board cannot bind any future board to hand over any shares at all. hope you have your paperwork sorted?

No idea if any agreement is signed and in place for shares in the club; all I know is, from reading the meeting minutes, that the share offer, once fully up and running, will instantly get £10,000 worth of shares (or however much handed over by the time they start - if we're still here !) converted into shares. I'm sure someone on PA will have this all agreed in place, I hope anyway.

[dafcburty]

The thing that still astounds me is that this is a 2 or 3 year plan that went awray and the fans have had to pull together to bail the club out. This has been ongoing for about 10 years, 10. For the board to just assume this would rectify itself while yo-yoing up and down the SPL and first division while trying to keep all their big name players is insane. In honestly i think the club will end up in admin and would think a points deduction is probably more likely than anything else

I'd happily take admin, a 10 point reduction and automatic relegation to SFL3 right now, if it meant saving the club. I'm only 18, have only supported the Pars for 8 years...I'd be lost without them - I know that sounds silly, but, DAFC are a big part of my life. I just feel I've already accepted defeat and the games up! :/ I just can't see any light at the end of the tunnel, and I really don't know what I'm gonna do on Saturday's now - not shopping anyway!!!

[DAFC]

Just had another post removed from dafc.net for asking about 'the elephant in the room' which imo is?

• where did the £700K parachute payment go when we've slashed the wage budget from £1.5M to £0.5M?
  
• why the debt was allowed to increase year on year if it was Masterton's actual cash?
  
• why can't anyone afford 4K for electricity bill?
  
• did the directors walk out because they knew the bank was about to put the squeeze on the £35M debt of Masterton Holdings or whatever it's called?
  

But as 'fans' we're expected to bail them out despite not knowing all this and what the actual extent of the debt is and what is needed to get the Pars out of it?

I'm not putting a penny more into the club after the collapse of the Pars Alive group last week.

Despite running the club into the ground it seems one man holds all the cards and is hiding as usual.

Where is Yorkston these days? I thought that 'the future was black and white'?

Absolutely scunnered.

[P.C]

I'd happily take admin, a 10 point reduction and automatic relegation to SFL3 right now, if it meant saving the club. I'm only 18, have only supported the Pars for 8 years...I'd be lost without them - I know that sounds silly, but, DAFC are a big part of my life. I just feel I've already accepted defeat and the games up! :/ I just can't see any light at the end of the tunnel, and I really don't know what I'm gonna do on Saturday's now - not shopping anyway!!!

I think any money that is getting raised now is being used on a month to month basis, the size of debt you have is too fast to be cleared purely by fan power and if you are at the stage where electricity bills are in arrears by that much plus outstanding player wages it doesnt look good. Stinks that a few months ago there was a statement released by the club saying all was rosey in the garden

Just had another post removed from dafc.net for asking about 'the elephant in the room' which imo is?

• where did the £700K parachute payment go when we've slashed the wage budget from £1.5M to £0.5M?
• why the debt was allowed to increase year on year if it was Masterton's actual cash?
• why can't anyone afford 4K for electricity bill?
• did the directors walk out because they knew the bank was about to put the squeeze on the £35M debt of Masterton Holdings or whatever it's called?

But as 'fans' we're expected to bail them out despite not knowing all this and what the actual extent of the debt is and what is needed to get the Pars out of it?

I'm not putting a penny more into the club after the collapse of the Pars Alive group last week.

Despite running the club into the ground it seems one man holds all the cards and is hiding as usual.

Where is Yorkston these days? I thought that 'the future was black and white'?

Absolutely scunnered.

tells its own story that they are deleting posts like that, obvious that the fans want answers but they are wanting to stem the flow of any information from the club, its like a club version of the North Korean football team. I fully expect any future game highlights to only show the goals you scored and none that you conceed

[Mij]

The longer the BOD provarocate over this mess, the worse its going to get!! Stating the obvious I know, but there still seems to be an attitude that they will spend money they dont have to get into SPL!!!!

They need to start being brutal and start cutting some of the fat away from the meat.

There seems to be an air of desparation from BOD and they are flailing about trying to raise money without any strategy.

Yes, it will be painful, but better doing it now before there isnt a Dunfermline Athletic FC to support.

This and a greenie

One of the points for raising money through the share issue sums it up

"We also want it to support Jim Jefferies and his team in their drive to progress to the SPL

Getting to the SPL should be the furthest thing from there mind.By all means raise money through a share issue or whatever, pay off outstanding/important debts,get your finances/budget under control,re build slowly

[da_no_1]

To be honest I couldn't give a flying fcuk about the teams results now that this has all come to a head these last few weeks.

Put us in admin GM. Chew what you can off what's left that's worth having.

Then leave the club in the hands of those who know how to add & subtract.

[The Moonster]

"Money should be paid now, then the problem addressed"

Honestly can't believe some of the stuff in those minutes. Encouraging people to blindly fire money into something that any level headed person wouldn't touch with a barge pole and then worry about what they've done later.

"DAFC feel they have been open with supporters".

Fucking hell. Good luck guys, you're going to need it.

[Socks]

"Money should be paid now, then the problem addressed"

Honestly can't believe some of the stuff in those minutes. Encouraging people to blindly fire money into something that any level headed person wouldn't touch with a barge pole and then worry about what they've done later.

"DAFC feel they have been open with supporters".

Fucking hell. Good luck guys, you're going to need it.

Just one point of clarification on the minutes. They include everything that was said, from both committee and everyone else who had points to make or questions to ask. The points you quote were from the floor (1st point) and from the information the club gave to be read out (2nd point). We did not endorse either of them.

You maybe knew that anyway, but I just wanted to be clear about it because we've had so much criticism recently. Some of it has undoutedly been fair as mistakes have been made, but some has not. I'm just being picky about it because I could do without more criticism for something that isn't actually true.

[mozam76]

 Serious debt situation started in 1998 due to ground redevelopment with far smaller grant than those given to other clubs

I daresay every debt has a start point, but fucking hell - that's the best part of FIFTEEN YEARS. In that time, there must have been at least SOME opportunity to cut costs/reduce debt? A seven year stay in the SPL with the money that brought, plus how many cup finals? Yet still they're saying "our problems started in 1998"?

[DA Baracus]

One that point, I'd agree 6-7k is probably a bit steep...however;

1. I think we CAN get 6k for each game if we continue to play well and win matches.

2. So, over the two games, we need to have 12-14k people attending. It doesn't automatically mean we need 6-7k each match. We may have 7k at the Raith game, but only 5k at the Falkirk match. Still, overall, 12k.

I know these points are obvious, but I just felt it needed to go out there that whoever did do the maths, despite being overly optimistic, isn't totally wrong and it is possible to get the required number through the gates to help, hopefully, ease cash flow.

There's only tomorrow's match before the Falkirk game. If we lose that, the crowd could be really shit. It's sad that we're struggling for 7k for these games when in the past we would have seen that as a fairly average crowd for such games.

I daresay every debt has a start point, but fucking hell - that's the best part of FIFTEEN YEARS. In that time, there must have been at least SOME opportunity to cut costs/reduce debt? A seven year stay in the SPL with the money that brought, plus how many cup finals? Yet still they're saying "our problems started in 1998"?

I would say problems started in the early 90s when we were signing players for £500k.

[Virtual Insanity]

[*]why can't anyone afford 4K for electricity bill?

i would say this is the most pertinent question based on the information that has been provided ( I don't buy the figures on the wage budget reduction).

The board could have decided to pay a little less than the 37% wages currently paid and reduce the electricity/gas to a level where payments were the charges were reduced to normal (especially with the obvious possibility of the USH being needed to get games on this month). Someone, board member or otherwise, could have put up the cash as a short term loan to significantly improve the cashflow at the club.

That the former didn't happen is just another episode of financial mismanagement, that the latter didn't is rather ominous as the people refusing to put their money in are those with the best idea of the current situation. I appreciate the fans were somewhat put on the spot by the club statement and suggestion from the floor, but these are issues that should have been addressed before PA handed over the money.

[vikingTON]

I can understand why you're thinking that, but any creditor who puts us into Admin would just be throwing good money after bad. In Admin, GM would be by far and away the largest creditor, way past the 75% mark, so it would all be done and dusted on his terms.

More comedy gold from the man who brought us these reassuring statements six weeks ago:

Some facts to clear up the speculation and numbers being bandied about.

As at May 2011 (the most recent set of accounts)

Amounts due within 1 year, approx £1.19m

Other amounts due, but not due within the next 5 years (apart from their servicing instalments) £9.4m

This second figure broadly splits down as a mortgage over EEP, owed by another company in the group, of approx £5.8m. It's not due for repayment until 2043.

Approx £3.6m is owed to various other companies, i.e. GM's company and other Directors, but there are no repayment terms on these other loans.

What's the point I'm making? We're inextricably linked to Masterton, his family and his companies. As long as he's not minded to pull the plug, and as long as his company isn't under any external pressure to do so then there's no imminent danger.

Should he change his mind though, or should someone force him to change it, then Administration would seem to be a very real danger - in fact I would go further and say that in that scenario, then unless he was willing to write off a lot of debt, or we could somehow raise a lot of money to buy him out, then there would seem little that a period in Administration would achieve.

That's exactly the problem - we don't have enough fans with pockets deep enough to get control of the club from GM. Unless of course he's willing to take a big loss, but even then I think it's doubtful whether we could mobilise enough resources to make it viable, or certainly viable at a top of SFL1 level. Maybe though, that's what will happen, and if so fair enough, the long-term viability of DAFC is the important thing for me, at whatever level.

In the meantime, as I've posted above, there's no immediate danger despite how bad the headlines like to paint things. Whether we like it or not, we just have to continue to trust GM and Co., that may turn out to be misplaced but there really isn't an alternative that I can see.

Creditors wouldn't be "throwing good money after bad" by putting Dunfermline into administration because they've already handed that money over, with no guarantee of getting it back. Yet another bogus claim from a discredited poster.