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Walking Down The Halbeath Road


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24 minutes ago, 101 said:

Bringing the academy in is probably were all the German money has gone which will in the future bring in talent and I'm sure anyone who has seen the youth players play it's been money well spent.

Forgive for for being sceptical here as well,  we have absolutely no idea how the academy is going,  and we won’t for quite a while now,  we haven’t attained a very high club academy status(unlike say Queen’s Park who have just been granted elite from their outside investment) and a lot of it just looks like the failed fife elite model with new strips.  We have a small group in full time, but even they aren’t meant to be receiving much if any of a wage from what I can gather from the supporters update.  So how much have they put in?  

Overall I do think we do need to keep an eye on the gmbh still.   3 years they have been here,   The sell?

Increased scouting network- fail, one player who we released in a year

Not being stay away owners- fail rarely at matches and hiding behind others when they do come across.

Training ground- fail, for now,  was meant to be open in part a year ago and in full last summer,  which still would have been still quite a slow process,  we now have a not even half-built site with talk of scaled back plans on account of our league position. If they are meant to be outside investment then why the f**k is our league position matter, sure as f**k they should still be funding it at the same rate?  It’s quite clear the first team budget has been slashed comfortably to account for the relegation.

The academy- unknown without wanting to repeat what I said above,  surely at minimum it would be at the same level as before we joined fife elite,  but the sell of bringing outside investment into this was an idea of an academy where we could fight for players at a much higher level than we were at that stage.

Increased professionalism- I would say with the appointment of cook this is a pass,  but it still is large parts of the club reliant on volunteers, and whilst not wanting to offend or sound ungrateful a lot of them are in roles where their being stretched beyond their natural abilities. 

All of this under the background of absolute disgraceful failure on the most important part of the club since they turned up.  
 

 

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16 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

All of this under the background of absolute disgraceful failure on the most important part of the club since they turned up.

This suggests they are to blame. Is that what you are saying?

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12 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

This suggests they are to blame. Is that what you are saying?

Not completely,   Could we have ended up with grant and then hughes taking the club down the shithole without them coming in? Quite possibly yes,  at least a few pars United side of the board(especially our former chairman) we’re quite enthusiastic at those appointments,

but any member of the board who either approved,  or were unwilling to put their foot down and hold those who wanted to take the club down such a bad path to the fire deserve a lot of criticism and that especially includes gmbh who whilst at times didn’t have outright control did/do on a de facto basis given the future agreements they were always going to have full control.

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11 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

unlike say Queen’s Park who have just been granted elite from their outside investment) and a lot of it just looks like the failed fife elite mode

I guess where QP have exceeded is their coaches must have a higher certificate and more medical/ sport science staff along with some of their players maybe making the Scotland teams? I guess the German investment has taken on the payroll of the entire coaching set up and facility hire. 

FEFA only really failed because we were the only team bank rolling it, there is a reasonable amount of players that have made it from the academy into senior football.

14 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Increased scouting network- fail, one player who we released in a year

Yogi clearly didn't fancy anyone other than the usual suspects. Max Little you would imagine came from the scouting network plenty time to see if that will work out for us. Also making sure we bring in the right players has also been a massive change to get away from bringing in rockets like Kyle Turner or Paul Watson who on the face of it were good enough footballers but clearly shook the dressing room up badly.

I thought it was poor decision making to put so much emphasis on the scouting when you take one look at Tory immigration policy and know that getting in folk will be difficult, when we can't even get nurses in what chances does a minor football club have

18 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Not being stay away owners- fail rarely at matches and hiding behind others when they do come across

Really? I'm not sure I would agree that they are hiding behind anyone but I don't think we are as good as when Bob Garmory was chairman.

 

20 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Training ground- fail, for now,  was meant to be open in part a year ago and in full last summer,  which still would have been still quite a slow process,  we now have a not even half-built site

I'm not entirely sure how much of this is in their control? You probably could spend 10x as much on fast contractors but if the council don't grant permission until 13 months after you thought you would be in then I don't know what anyone would do. 

On top of that the roofing contractor going bust half way through the project isn't ideal.

23 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Increased professionalism- I would say with the appointment of cook this is a pass,  but it still is large parts of the club reliant on volunteers, and whilst not wanting to offend or sound ungrateful a lot of them are in roles where their being stretched beyond their natural abilities

I would agree, we need to have a plan in place to wean ourselves off volunteer labour. And support David otherwise we will just burn out someone else trying to work 24/7.

I think there are green shoots but by no means perfect. I'm not sure what more I'd expect of the board in league 1, obviously can demand a lot but is it realistic? I'm not so sure. 

Would it be great to have an elite academy in L1? sure. Is it necessary, I don't think so. Something to aim for in the next 2/3 years.

Would it be great to have a number of young European players looking to forge a career in the UK? Sure. But can we get them through the visa process, I doubt it.

Would it be great to have a fully functioning training ground and have had to planning process settled long ago? Sure, but is there much the board of a football club can do? I doubt it. If there was I suspect they would have done it.

Would it be great to have a staff fit to run the football club? Yes, but is that a great way to spend the cash, in roles like David that bring cash back into the club, there even seems to be a recruitment issue for bar and hospitality stuff so where staff are needed they are clearly bringing folk in. 

The absolute shambles of the last season is now well behind us thankfully but I'm sure still taking a toll on the finances. 

 

That's a very long post now, apologies 😆

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5 minutes ago, 101 said:

I guess where QP have exceeded is their coaches must have a higher certificate and more medical/ sport science staff along with some of their players maybe making the Scotland teams? I guess the German investment has taken on the payroll of the entire coaching set up and facility hire. 

FEFA only really failed because we were the only team bank rolling it, there is a reasonable amount of players that have made it from the academy into senior football.

Yogi clearly didn't fancy anyone other than the usual suspects. Max Little you would imagine came from the scouting network plenty time to see if that will work out for us. Also making sure we bring in the right players has also been a massive change to get away from bringing in rockets like Kyle Turner or Paul Watson who on the face of it were good enough footballers but clearly shook the dressing room up badly.

I thought it was poor decision making to put so much emphasis on the scouting when you take one look at Tory immigration policy and know that getting in folk will be difficult, when we can't even get nurses in what chances does a minor football club have

Really? I'm not sure I would agree that they are hiding behind anyone but I don't think we are as good as when Bob Garmory was chairman.

 

I'm not entirely sure how much of this is in their control? You probably could spend 10x as much on fast contractors but if the council don't grant permission until 13 months after you thought you would be in then I don't know what anyone would do. 

On top of that the roofing contractor going bust half way through the project isn't ideal.

I would agree, we need to have a plan in place to wean ourselves off volunteer labour. And support David otherwise we will just burn out someone else trying to work 24/7.

I think there are green shoots but by no means perfect. I'm not sure what more I'd expect of the board in league 1, obviously can demand a lot but is it realistic? I'm not so sure. 

Would it be great to have an elite academy in L1? sure. Is it necessary, I don't think so. Something to aim for in the next 2/3 years.

Would it be great to have a number of young European players looking to forge a career in the UK? Sure. But can we get them through the visa process, I doubt it.

Would it be great to have a fully functioning training ground and have had to planning process settled long ago? Sure, but is there much the board of a football club can do? I doubt it. If there was I suspect they would have done it.

Would it be great to have a staff fit to run the football club? Yes, but is that a great way to spend the cash, in roles like David that bring cash back into the club, there even seems to be a recruitment issue for bar and hospitality stuff so where staff are needed they are clearly bringing folk in. 

The absolute shambles of the last season is now well behind us thankfully but I'm sure still taking a toll on the finances. 

 

That's a very long post now, apologies 😆

A long post- but not a bad one.

I think in general a lot of your points-  whilst being slightly simplistic the answer is spend more money,  why are Queen’s Park able to achieve higher academy status, they spent more.   Why are we not able to get any of the foreign players in, we aren’t paying enough tor the the quality of players who gets visas. Similarly on the training ground,  if we had spent properly we’d have a better comprehensive report before committing and good architects are normally very good at preparing the right paperwork to make sure planning is a smooth process.

I know that can seem a bit entitled, I am forever infuriated by EPL fans shouting at their owners for not buying a 100m striker,   But this is what the group came in saying they would do, if they don’t/aren’t willing to provide the finance to achieve that,  then we need to ask if at what point should they still be in control.

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11 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

A long post- but not a bad one.

I think in general a lot of your points-  whilst being slightly simplistic the answer is spend more money,  why are Queen’s Park able to achieve higher academy status, they spent more.   Why are we not able to get any of the foreign players in, we aren’t paying enough tor the the quality of players who gets visas. Similarly on the training ground,  if we had spent properly we’d have a better comprehensive report before committing and good architects are normally very good at preparing the right paperwork to make sure planning is a smooth process.

I know that can seem a bit entitled, I am forever infuriated by EPL fans shouting at their owners for not buying a 100m striker,   But this is what the group came in saying they would do, if they don’t/aren’t willing to provide the finance to achieve that,  then we need to ask if at what point should they still be in control.

The only way to get international players of the required quality to play in League 1 is to chuck large sums of cash at them, a tactic that famously went well in the past for the club.

How much was spent on the training ground report? How much should it have been? What cheap architects were used?

 

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8 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

The only way to get international players of the required quality to play in League 1 is to chuck large sums of cash at them, a tactic that famously went well in the past for the club.

How much was spent on the training ground report? How much should it have been? What cheap architects were used?

 

I didn’t say large sums of money, I said more money.   Again,  this was something the investment group stated they would provide,  they clearly haven’t.

I don’t know why you want to be petty about things you know fine well I can’t provide, but I can’t give you a number of examples of projects going more smoothly,  something roughly on the spend we are looking at is often done in 18 months, a year if things go well.  What is your justification for it looking like it’s going to take far more than double that time?  

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1 hour ago, 101 said:

.

 

I'm not entirely sure how much of this is in their control? You probably could spend 10x as much on fast contractors but if the council don't grant permission until 13 months after you thought you would be in then I don't know what anyone would do. 

On top of that the roofing contractor going bust half way through the project isn't ideal.

Unless I've missed a statement, why is none of this getting communicated? 

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6 hours ago, Grant228 said:

Unless I've missed a statement, why is none of this getting communicated? 

I don't know, I have my worries about the club but in this case...possibly not to tip off all the roofer firms in the area that we're looking for a replacement and with increasing pressure on the project they don't want the price to get bumped up?

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6 hours ago, Grant228 said:

Unless I've missed a statement, why is none of this getting communicated? 

Hardly a secret that Braisby roofing was working down there and has since gone bust. It was in the Dunfermline press.

As for the planning delay that is a matter of public knowledge on the council website.

As for why the club has decided not to do a statement on the issues I have no idea, maybe they aren't as big an issue as them seem from the outside looking in but it would explain some of the delay.

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Guest Wind Chime Jimmy
8 hours ago, 101 said:

I guess where QP have exceeded is their coaches must have a higher certificate and more medical/ sport science staff along with some of their players maybe making the Scotland teams? I guess the German investment has taken on the payroll of the entire coaching set up and facility hire. 

FEFA only really failed because we were the only team bank rolling it, there is a reasonable amount of players that have made it from the academy into senior football.

Yogi clearly didn't fancy anyone other than the usual suspects. Max Little you would imagine came from the scouting network plenty time to see if that will work out for us. Also making sure we bring in the right players has also been a massive change to get away from bringing in rockets like Kyle Turner or Paul Watson who on the face of it were good enough footballers but clearly shook the dressing room up badly.

I thought it was poor decision making to put so much emphasis on the scouting when you take one look at Tory immigration policy and know that getting in folk will be difficult, when we can't even get nurses in what chances does a minor football club have

Really? I'm not sure I would agree that they are hiding behind anyone but I don't think we are as good as when Bob Garmory was chairman.

 

I'm not entirely sure how much of this is in their control? You probably could spend 10x as much on fast contractors but if the council don't grant permission until 13 months after you thought you would be in then I don't know what anyone would do. 

On top of that the roofing contractor going bust half way through the project isn't ideal.

I would agree, we need to have a plan in place to wean ourselves off volunteer labour. And support David otherwise we will just burn out someone else trying to work 24/7.

I think there are green shoots but by no means perfect. I'm not sure what more I'd expect of the board in league 1, obviously can demand a lot but is it realistic? I'm not so sure. 

Would it be great to have an elite academy in L1? sure. Is it necessary, I don't think so. Something to aim for in the next 2/3 years.

Would it be great to have a number of young European players looking to forge a career in the UK? Sure. But can we get them through the visa process, I doubt it.

Would it be great to have a fully functioning training ground and have had to planning process settled long ago? Sure, but is there much the board of a football club can do? I doubt it. If there was I suspect they would have done it.

Would it be great to have a staff fit to run the football club? Yes, but is that a great way to spend the cash, in roles like David that bring cash back into the club, there even seems to be a recruitment issue for bar and hospitality stuff so where staff are needed they are clearly bringing folk in. 

The absolute shambles of the last season is now well behind us thankfully but I'm sure still taking a toll on the finances. 

 

That's a very long post now, apologies 😆

Well you're in with the club given the PST etc so your opinion is a bit of a club response to a fellow fans concern. Or am I wide of the mark?

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24 minutes ago, 101 said:

Hardly a secret that Braisby roofing was working down there and has since gone bust. It was in the Dunfermline press.

As for the planning delay that is a matter of public knowledge on the council website.

As for why the club has decided not to do a statement on the issues I have no idea, maybe they aren't as big an issue as them seem from the outside looking in but it would explain some of the delay.

Again, maybe it's just me being out the loop, or being a bit lazy. 

 

But I wasn't keeping track of what contractors are working down there, nor am I scouring the council website for planning permission? I wouldn't have the first idea where to look for that. 

I'd say our training ground being delayed by this much is a pretty big issue, as you can see from this thread it's something people feel strongly about. Instead at the recent meeting it was about 10 seconds of David Cooks time. 

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1 hour ago, Wind Chime Jimmy said:

Well you're in with the club given the PST etc so your opinion is a bit of a club response to a fellow fans concern. Or am I wide of the mark?

Definitely my own opinion, I didn't know when the planning application had been approved until I looked it up following CallumPars post about it.

I have no idea on any of the financials and I have only ever seen David Cook at supporters meetings, I doubt he knows who I am so I'm not sure I would say I'm in with the club and I'm sure they would disagree with some of my post.

If I thought anyone was taking anything I put on here as remotely ITK then I wouldn't post it as you will be severely disappointed.

56 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

Again, maybe it's just me being out the loop, or being a bit lazy. 

 

But I wasn't keeping track of what contractors are working down there, nor am I scouring the council website for planning permission? I wouldn't have the first idea where to look for that. 

I'd say our training ground being delayed by this much is a pretty big issue, as you can see from this thread it's something people feel strongly about. Instead at the recent meeting it was about 10 seconds of David Cooks time. 

No I agree, unless you had driven past there you wouldn't have known that Braisbys roofing was being used, although at the time it obviously made sense.

I agree it would have been good for the club to confirm the planning aspect of the artificial pitch had been approved, but that's really up to them what they put statements out on and I wasn't at the most recent supporters meeting so no idea if anyone asked questions on Rosyth.

I think more communication is better and a lack of stuff.

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8 hours ago, parsforlife said:

I didn’t say large sums of money, I said more money.   Again,  this was something the investment group stated they would provide,  they clearly haven’t.

I don’t know why you want to be petty about things you know fine well I can’t provide, but I can’t give you a number of examples of projects going more smoothly,  something roughly on the spend we are looking at is often done in 18 months, a year if things go well.  What is your justification for it looking like it’s going to take far more than double that time?  

League 1 simply isn't attractive, especially to international players. It wouldn't be the case of just a little bit more money, it would be the case of significantly more money to even tempt the type of player who was viable, in terms of visas etc, to consider it.

So we're back to the club refusing to spend money then. Why do you believe this is the case? When did the investors say they would be providing large sums of cash for transfers incidentally?

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10 hours ago, 101 said:

The planning application was actually approved on the 27th September, so no doubt they will be aiming to have it ready for pre season.

https://planning.fife.gov.uk/online/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=RDZALFHFIPX00

I think it would be good to get an update on this. This time last year, we were expecting it to be ready for pre-season last year. Obviously these issues were unforeseen, regarding the length of time this took. But I’d been told that we haven’t started the work to sort the drainage, which is what I meant regarding not starting the work to have planning permission. Since we don’t have approval to install the artificial pitch until that’s completed.

To be fair, you’ll probably know a lot better than me. If you’ve been told that there’s been progress, I’d believe that and accept that my info was obviously wrong.

I do also understand that cost of materials and labour has increased astronomically since plans started. With that in mind, it would be foolish if they hadn’t scaled plans back a bit - at least for the time being. Prioritise the basics - pitches, security, changing rooms etc.

I still have questions around the transfer policy. However, I don’t doubt that they are still working hard to bring in players. Need to wait and see if they bring in players that were worth waiting for. What I will say, is that I haven’t seen Falkirk or QoS bring in anyone that I wish we’d signed. So I don’t feel like we’ve missed out on anyone. After last year, where they let Grant and Hughes sign masses of duds, I can understand a bit more caution. But 3 permanent signings in 2 windows isn’t great. Hopefully they find a decent middle ground for the summer.

As I’ve said already though, we’ll find out come the end of April whether they got it right with transfers. If we win the league, they will deserve credit for not spending more than required to get out of here.

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Always thought it was the manager and his staff who identified players to sign. We've been told McPake has been given a budget.

Are we now suddenly saying that the board are the ones making the signings, or in this case refusing to make signings? Even though it was confirmed in the summer that McPake tried to make more signings that fell through?

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19 minutes ago, CallumPar said:

To be fair, you’ll probably know a lot better than me. If you’ve been told that there’s been progress, I’d believe that and accept that my info was obviously wrong.

Tbf you can see in the planning application all the stuff about the water which suggests progress and the young team were playing on the grass, no idea if they still are with the weather, so I guess there has been some progress. 

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25 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Always thought it was the manager and his staff who identified players to sign. We've been told McPake has been given a budget.

Are we now suddenly saying that the board are the ones making the signings, or in this case refusing to make signings? Even though it was confirmed in the summer that McPake tried to make more signings that fell through?

I was under the impression that McPake/scouts identify targets and it’s the board that discuss contracts/compensation with the players/selling club. That was certainly the case pre-covid. I know that it was always Ross McArthur that negotiated contracts. The manager just said who he wanted them to be offered to. This is fairly standard in modern football, I believe. Would imagine Cook/Meggle are the people that would take on that role at Dunfermline.

This is why I mention the board regarding signings. McPake’s interviews certainly sound like he’s done his part of identifying the targets (that’s been the same both windows), but for some reason the transfers never seem to be completed.

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