Walking Down The Halbeath Road

[parsforlife]

5 minutes ago, The Toun Clock said:

. We've got a decent sized squad 

Eh? 16 that could possibly be called first team players, the majority without even 50 appearances to their name at first team football.

[DA Baracus]

59 minutes ago, DAFC. said:

The lack of signings is frustrating, but everyone else, pretty much, is in the same boat. Players will be holding out for the best deal. Would be nice to get it all sorted by League Cup campaign, but looks like that won't happen. The League Cup is probably going to just have to be shelved this season. I'll start to actually worry if we're in the same situation by the first game of the league season. 

We'll surely be fine for the League Cup. Would expect us to be beating East Fife, Buckie and Alloa, with Alloa being the toughest game (but also the last, so potentially new players could be available).

We'll almost certainly take a pumping next weekend, but as long as we play well then I won't be too bothered by a team two levels above us beating us.

8 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Eh? 16 that could possibly be called first team players, the majority without even 50 appearances to their name at first team football.

The club website lists 21 first team players...

[parsforlife]

2 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

We'll surely be fine for the League Cup. Would expect us to be beating East Fife, Buckie and Alloa, with Alloa being the toughest game (but also the last, so potentially new players could be available).

We'll almost certainly take a pumping next weekend, but as long as we play well then I won't be too bothered by a team two levels above us beating us.

The club website lists 21 first team players...

That includes the kids just signed up.   The website may call them first team players,   I certainly won’t.  They’re here for development 

[The Toun Clock]

33 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Eh? 16 that could possibly be called first team players, the majority without even 50 appearances to their name at first team football.

See the word squad mate. I didn't say first team players, I'm talking about boys on the payroll. 

[Chubbychops]

In bygone days the youth team were a seperate thing to your first team squad list.  It gives a false impression that we have a decent sized squad by adding 5-6 16 year olds in there. I'm guessing we have a reserve/youth team that will accommodate these players.

You can see instantly that the 16 year olds a nowhere near ready to being in contention for first team football. They a stick thin, they will get battered across the park in league 1.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Chubbychops

[parsforlife]

30 minutes ago, The Toun Clock said:

See the word squad mate. I didn't say first team players, I'm talking about boys on the payroll. 

These boys will be taking very little budget. 

Squad would be what most people would call the group of players who will be playing first team matches. In the same way when someone says coaching staff they mean those that will make the tactics for first team matches  etc and aren’t referring to the u13s manager. 

Edited July 8, 2022 by parsforlife

[101]

1 hour ago, Chubbychops said:

In bygone days the youth team were a seperate thing to your first team squad list.  It gives a false impression that we have a decent sized squad by adding 5-6 16 year olds in there. I'm guessing we have a reserve/youth team that will accommodate these players.

You can see instantly that the 16 year olds a nowhere near ready to being in contention for first team football. They a stick thin, they will get battered across the park in league 1.

I've not seen the SPFL announce a resumption of the reserve league and with 3 teams sending their kids to the lowland leagues it might just be informal bounce games for anyone with enough players to merit such games

[parsforlife]

6 minutes ago, 101 said:

I've not seen the SPFL announce a resumption of the reserve league and with 3 teams sending their kids to the lowland leagues it might just be informal bounce games for anyone with enough players to merit such games

I’ve seen a few suggestions the spfl are happy for it to start back up and that clubs may be asked if they want to enter once squads are settled.  Might be looking at a September start.

19 clubs played the last version,  3 being from the LL who have there own version,  OF weren’t in it so you just lose hearts,  hibs didn’t play the last one but have suggested they would this one.

I think you could comfortably find enough sides to form a league.    I believe the bigger issue in the last couple of seasons was covid protocols making staging games a much bigger hassle, these are gone this season.  I think there’s a very strong chance of a resumption. 

[101]

21 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

I’ve seen a few suggestions the spfl are happy for it to start back up and that clubs may be asked if they want to enter once squads are settled.  Might be looking at a September start.

19 clubs played the last version,  3 being from the LL who have there own version,  OF weren’t in it so you just lose hearts,  hibs didn’t play the last one but have suggested they would this one.

I think you could comfortably find enough sides to form a league.    I believe the bigger issue in the last couple of seasons was covid protocols making staging games a much bigger hassle, these are gone this season.  I think there’s a very strong chance of a resumption. 

I think many clubs will still be suffering from Covid and having smaller squads and reducing wage bills so the smaller premiership teams might not have the youth teams they once had. I think it would be good to bring it back, but not sure if it would make financial sense for us to take part whilst in L1

[Stellaboz]

There's definitely a correlation between the quality of football at each level dropping in Scotland and the recent non existence of reserve football. 

Teams like us have been bringing jn players here and there with no match practise for weeks, or months at a time. It's important for our whole game that it's brought back.

[parsforlife]

1 hour ago, 101 said:

I think many clubs will still be suffering from Covid and having smaller squads and reducing wage bills so the smaller premiership teams might not have the youth teams they once had. I think it would be good to bring it back, but not sure if it would make financial sense for us to take part whilst in L1

Cost of a minibus every few weeks that expensive?  Most teams will have the bodies and can always be supplemented with academy players.

83 clubs in the LL version,  I doubt they are better off financially somehow.  

[101]

9 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Cost of a minibus every few weeks that expensive?  Most teams will have the bodies and can always be supplemented with academy players.

83 clubs in the LL version,  I doubt they are better off financially somehow.  

I'd have thought even the petrol costs alone would be prohibitive particularly on the longer trips. Also when the games used to run, during 18/19 season at least, many of the games were during the day so any academy players at school (I imagine all of them?) would be unavailable to play. Further to that a tight senior team would probably see us an injury or two away from having to patch a formal league. 

The Lowland League clubs have crowds paying just to watch them play, I doubt more than a handful of folk would be willing to pay to watch the kids play and if we were at a comparable standard to the Lowland league then our youth set up would be rivaling the biggest clubs in Scotland, now I'd like to think it's that good but somehow I doubt it. The best development we can give the young guys is introducing them into the league when it suits them and us.

I think in L1 we can justify playing the young guys when suits it's harder to do in the championship when the standard is higher. All for development of them but don't see it being necessary to join a formal reserve league unless it was part of a requirement to have a certain level of SFA certificate.

[parsforlife]

15 minutes ago, 101 said:

I'd have thought even the petrol costs alone would be prohibitive particularly on the longer trips. Also when the games used to run, during 18/19 season at least, many of the games were during the day so any academy players at school (I imagine all of them?) would be unavailable to play. Further to that a tight senior team would probably see us an injury or two away from having to patch a formal league. 

The Lowland League clubs have crowds paying just to watch them play, I doubt more than a handful of folk would be willing to pay to watch the kids play and if we were at a comparable standard to the Lowland league then our youth set up would be rivaling the biggest clubs in Scotland, now I'd like to think it's that good but somehow I doubt it. The best development we can give the young guys is introducing them into the league when it suits them and us.

I think in L1 we can justify playing the young guys when suits it's harder to do in the championship when the standard is higher. All for development of them but don't see it being necessary to join a formal reserve league unless it was part of a requirement to have a certain level of SFA certificate.

Kids have got out of school for games before.

I don’t understand your thinking on the 2nd point.  There’s 83 clubs in the LL reserve league, not talking about the first team set up at that level. 

Petrol costs honestly seems laughable, we’re a multi-million pound business,  it’s remarkable how often that seems to be forgotten. 
 

Last point, the reason to give these guys reserve team games is to develop them, it’s slightly more competitive than bounce games, more structured and more regular.

As for giving these guys game time in the first team,   How many minutes do you think they’ll get in a competitive league?  We absolutely strolled the leagues last time we were here and PJ crossan got the odd 10 minutes here and there once the league was just about sewn up.  Honestly wouldn’t be surprised to see the total game time for the 5 guys to be single figure minutes for the season,  they must get games elsewhere.

[101]

1 hour ago, parsforlife said:

Kids have got out of school for games before.

I don’t understand your thinking on the 2nd point.  There’s 83 clubs in the LL reserve league, not talking about the first team set up at that level. 

Petrol costs honestly seems laughable, we’re a multi-million pound business,  it’s remarkable how often that seems to be forgotten. 
 

Last point, the reason to give these guys reserve team games is to develop them, it’s slightly more competitive than bounce games, more structured and more regular.

As for giving these guys game time in the first team,   How many minutes do you think they’ll get in a competitive league?  We absolutely strolled the leagues last time we were here and PJ crossan got the odd 10 minutes here and there once the league was just about sewn up.  Honestly wouldn’t be surprised to see the total game time for the 5 guys to be single figure minutes for the season,  they must get games elsewhere.

Over the season can guarantee that the transport costs would be more than what at least one of the young guys is being paid. Yes we are a multimillion pound business but literally every penny is accounted for unlike other companies that are turning over £2/3m 

I think these guys will get serious game time this season, hence me not being too keen on us being in any potential reserve league.

I'd hope for 90mins/per quarter for some of the guys towards the end of the season. 

[Stellaboz]

Once we've got mid table obscurity wrapped up, let the young lads loose.

[parsforlife]

50 minutes ago, 101 said:

. Yes we are a multimillion pound business but literally every penny is accounted for unlike other companies that are turning over £2/3m 

I'd hope for 90mins/per quarter for some of the guys towards the end of the season. 

Accounting for every penny is sensible,  refusing to pay for investment costs is insanity.  Big difference,   feel we've strayed far too much towards the later,  where we haven't invested enough outside of the first team and are paying the costs.  Again, how is affordable for smaller clubs than us to run reserve football?  How are kelty and edinburgh running sides when we aren't?

Final quarter will be when the real pressure comes in.  Way Scottish football is set up with 6/10 places being very significant there will be absolutely no time to sit back relax and just let the young boys play unless we have an incredibly fantastic or incredibly shite season. With winning so crucial there should be absolutely no chance any manager of our club should feel a need to play anyone with anything else than believing they were the best player to help us win that particular match.    Do you genuinely believe players that haven't played a single minute at senior football at this stage will be that player 9 months from now?   I think we need a to give them a little bit more room to grow than that.

Edited July 8, 2022 by parsforlife

[DA Baracus]

Remember that one of the primary reasons McPake was hired was his willingness to give young players a chance.

He gave lads of 16 and 17 a chance at Dundee.

[101]

2 hours ago, parsforlife said:

Accounting for every penny is sensible,  refusing to pay for investment costs is insanity.  Big difference,   feel we've strayed far too much towards the later,  where we haven't invested enough outside of the first team and are paying the costs.  Again, how is affordable for smaller clubs than us to run reserve football?  How are kelty and edinburgh running sides when we aren't?

Final quarter will be when the real pressure comes in.  Way Scottish football is set up with 6/10 places being very significant there will be absolutely no time to sit back relax and just let the young boys play unless we have an incredibly fantastic or incredibly shite season. With winning so crucial there should be absolutely no chance any manager of our club should feel a need to play anyone with anything else than believing they were the best player to help us win that particular match.    Do you genuinely believe players that haven't played a single minute at senior football at this stage will be that player 9 months from now?   I think we need a to give them a little bit more room to grow than that.

Tbh neither have the outgoings that we have, especially the stadium which is a ridiculous millstone round our neck.

Sorry I meant 90 mins in the final quarter so around 10 mins per game or maybe against the lower placed team our march to the playoffs or 5th place.

[HoBNob]

8 hours ago, 101 said:

Tbh neither have the outgoings that we have, especially the stadium which is a ridiculous millstone round our neck.

Sorry I meant 90 mins in the final quarter so around 10 mins per game or maybe against the lower placed team our march to the playoffs or 5th place.

Neither also have the incomings, don't reckon either have 2 thousand season tickets... 

 

Is the stadium really that bad? The rent seems fairly reasonable. 

[Chubbychops]

45 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

Is the stadium really that bad? The rent seems fairly reasonable. 

Seems to be something folk bring up about maintanence etc, but the stadium also allows us to bring in income from the bar. Boxes and hospitality that other clubs with smaller grounds can't do.  It's not the Nou Camp. It about 3k seats bigger than other championship grounds around Scotland.

Think it's exaggerated how much the ground is a drain of finances.