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Walking Down The Halbeath Road


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Secondly, and more importantly, questions need to be asked of the club regarding finances. Last season will surely have seen a big loss due to income not being close to matching outgoings, for obvious reasons. Add to this the bad news about having to replace the floodlights, and it needs to be asked how the club are affording things like 2 year deals for Dorrans, especially when the club have said they are running behind on the season ticket budget.


We got a significant sum of money for Kevin Nisbet last year, so I’d be surprised if there was a particularly significant financial loss. We made no secret of the fact we had all staff on furlough until football was back and we got an increase in prize money for finishing 4th (presumably this was budgeted for though). We also sold McManus for money this summer. It’s also worth noting that the German investors increased their share/investment early. The timings of which seem to have coincided with the bad news about the floodlights (as well as the training ground news). It’s very unlikely that the floodlights are being funded by our first team squad budget.
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Jeez people actually wanting a smaller stadium, nothing like being ambitious eh?

Remember that if we were in Prem this season we'd have games against Dundee, Dundee Utd, Hearts, Hibs, Celtic and Rangers 4 of which you'd expect to sell out their allocation which = cash.

Also, surely the population of Dunfermline has increased hugely in the last 10-20 years so crowds should be going up if anything...

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I don't see any reason why we cannot increase gate sizes dramatically if we continue with and extend community engagement whilst continuing to play attacking football. Grant was brought in for this reason, whilst it may not always go our way I would rather see us lose 3-2 as opposed to 1-0 with our strikers scoring goals. There are going to be bumps in the road but I have a feeling this is going to come good.

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1 hour ago, Fungi said:

Jeez people actually wanting a smaller stadium, nothing like being ambitious eh?

Remember that if we were in Prem this season we'd have games against Dundee, Dundee Utd, Hearts, Hibs, Celtic and Rangers 4 of which you'd expect to sell out their allocation which = cash.

Also, surely the population of Dunfermline has increased hugely in the last 10-20 years so crowds should be going up if anything...

When we were fighting for 3rd in the top flight and reaching a Scottish Cup Final in 03/04, our average attendance was 6200. This was in an SPL with Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd, Dundee, Motherwell & Kilmarnock.

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24 minutes ago, Rammit Bawdeep said:

I don't see any reason why we cannot increase gate sizes dramatically if we continue with and extend community engagement whilst continuing to play attacking football. Grant was brought in for this reason, whilst it may not always go our way I would rather see us lose 3-2 as opposed to 1-0 with our strikers scoring goals. There are going to be bumps in the road but I have a feeling this is going to come good.

Why will crowds increase “dramatically” due to community engagement? What exactly does this entail?

I can also guarantee that most Pars fans won’t give a f**k how exciting the game was if we lose. I’d rather draw 0-0 in the most putrid game imaginable than lose a five-goal thriller.

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18 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

Not been posting recently and won't be for a while (still read the forum occasionally), but wanted to comment on a couple of things.

Firstly, yesterday's performance was really poor and really concerning. Peter Grant was talking about challenging for the league. Not with those sort of performances we won't be. A very disappointing and disheartening start to the league season. We had an almost full squad and a decent bench. There are no excuses for turning in that sort of utter dross. Grant talks a good game, but he needs to back that up. 

Secondly, and more importantly, questions need to be asked of the club regarding finances. Last season will surely have seen a big loss due to income not being close to matching outgoings, for obvious reasons. Add to this the bad news about having to replace the floodlights, and it needs to be asked how the club are affording things like 2 year deals for Dorrans, especially when the club have said they are running behind on the season ticket budget. Perhaps the German investors have 'plugged the gap', but that's information we need to know. The club should not be in a position again where they are paying out more than they are getting in, and being behind on season ticket budget strongly implies that they are. I'm also concerned that they are surprised at the season ticket sales. To me, and others, it seemed pretty obvious that sales would be way down, due to the COVID situation and due to the appointment of Grant. Those who made the decision to appoint Grant should have been prepared for the consequences, and that they aren't suggests an alarming disconnect between them and the fanbase. Season ticket sales had been steadily falling before COVID anyway, and history shows that it is very hard to get those fans back; usually you don't.

I think the club need to answer questions about the finances, as there are glaring issues from the outside. That they had to rely on director loans very recently was alarming and, frankly, not acceptable. How is the club being funded now? How are they meeting the running costs and player and staff wages now? How is this floodlight replacement being funded? How is the gap from being behind on season ticket sales being funded? Without answers, there is only speculation.

I'm surprised that there haven't been more questions about this. Hopefully fans aren't getting complacent. 

 

A lighter end; this article was an absolutely lovely and moving read: https://dafc.co.uk/story.php?t=A_Once_A_Year_Love_with_Dunfermline_Athletic_Football_Club&ID=13252

Your points are valid, and one of the reasons I hope the supporters council can get back up and running when the Germans are properly in place.

But rest assured people aren't getting complacent we still have a rep from the Pars Supporters Trust on the board of the football club and 2 reps on the Pars United CIC board so fans are still examining the books. Also worth remembering that on top of any money we got from Kevin's deal we also get £500k from the Government.

But worth keeping the fundamental questions at the fore as obviously that's how it went tits up last time.

Hope you're doing okay as well.

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29 minutes ago, Cardle is Magic said:

Why will crowds increase “dramatically” due to community engagement? What exactly does this entail?

I can also guarantee that most Pars fans won’t give a f**k how exciting the game was if we lose. I’d rather draw 0-0 in the most putrid game imaginable than lose a five-goal thriller.

Kinda missing my point, I was quite clear that I would rather watch a decent performance and a 3-2 defeat than the crap we watched last year and a 1-0 defeat. 

I don't know how long you have followed the Pars but I got hooked not long after Leishman took over. He was never out the press, on the telly and the football was a bit of a roller-coaster to say the least but it was exciting. We got free tickets at the school and  I know another 10 or so guys who all got into the Pars about the same time and for the same reason, East End was an exciting place to go to and we felt part of something. Dunfermline continues to grow at a startling rate and there are lots of potential young fans out there.

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1 hour ago, Rammit Bawdeep said:

Kinda missing my point, I was quite clear that I would rather watch a decent performance and a 3-2 defeat than the crap we watched last year and a 1-0 defeat. 

I don't know how long you have followed the Pars but I got hooked not long after Leishman took over. He was never out the press, on the telly and the football was a bit of a roller-coaster to say the least but it was exciting. We got free tickets at the school and  I know another 10 or so guys who all got into the Pars about the same time and for the same reason, East End was an exciting place to go to and we felt part of something. Dunfermline continues to grow at a startling rate and there are lots of potential young fans out there.

Other than misty-eyed recollections about the 1980s, what practical ways will community engagement boost crowds?

Club has already tried giving away tickets to local school kids. It didn’t lead to any sustained or noticeable improvement in attendance figures.

I’m not even saying you’re wrong but what exactly should the club be doing that they’re not already? What would you like them to try?

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8 minutes ago, Cardle is Magic said:

Other than misty-eyed recollections about the 1980s, what practical ways will community engagement boost crowds?

Club has already tried giving away tickets to local school kids. It didn’t lead to any sustained or noticeable improvement in attendance figures.

I’m not even saying you’re wrong but what exactly should the club be doing that they’re not already? What would you like them to try?

You've got to make it as easy as possible for people to attend, if I was the club I would run a bus into town and a bus round Duloch free with a match ticket also put more on for the kids would be good to have like a young pars zone at the stadium.

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Winning football matches has the biggest influence on increasing crowds. Leishman had 3 promotions in 4 years. 

It's a different world we live in as well though. There's more recreational choice out there now. Working patterns are also different. Football used to be the standout choice for the working classes but football abandoned the working class around the end of the 90's.

In the Leishman days, you had 20,000 people either employed or indirectly employed at the dockyard. Folk working Monday to Friday(half day). Saturday afternoons were accessible to the masses and the price of football was affordable.

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Interesting to see Scott Banks will be used in the Crystal Palace first team next season, I wouldn't have thought he was anywhere near the desired physicality or skill level yet.

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15 minutes ago, Cardle is Magic said:

Other than misty-eyed recollections about the 1980s, what practical ways will community engagement boost crowds?

Club has already tried giving away tickets to local school kids. It didn’t lead to any sustained or noticeable improvement in attendance figures.

I’m not even saying you’re wrong but what exactly should the club be doing that they’re not already? What would you like them to try?

Far from misty eyed, that's how we all ended up following the pars. There is little point in giving away free tickets if the product is poor. potential new fans through the door and an exciting product on the pitch seemed to work in the past.

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6 minutes ago, Rammit Bawdeep said:

Far from misty eyed, that's how we all ended up following the pars. There is little point in giving away free tickets if the product is poor. potential new fans through the door and an exciting product on the pitch seemed to work in the past.

I’m sure it did but you can’t say that something that worked in the 1980s will automatically work in 2021.

I agree the club needs to work hard to attract kids and young adults to the games but we are long past the Leishman days.

I suggested we only needed an 8,000 capacity stadium because we’ve very rarely had a crowd bigger than that in the last 20 years.

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1 minute ago, Rammit Bawdeep said:

Alternatively you look at the pricing structure, it seems to be sustainable in Germany to have lower prices and full stadiums. I recall a game v Dundee utd which was on sky (or setanta) and the prices were dropped, ended up with a full house

You had season ticket holders locked out because it was literally like 2 quid to get in. Brilliant strategy from the club at that time. 

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26 minutes ago, Rammit Bawdeep said:

Alternatively you look at the pricing structure, it seems to be sustainable in Germany to have lower prices and full stadiums. I recall a game v Dundee utd which was on sky (or setanta) and the prices were dropped, ended up with a full house

I’d agree that £20 is far too much to be charging but the club will say if 2000 people pay that they get £40,000, while they’d need almost 700 extra fans to make the same amount if entry was £15.

Developing our younger players and selling them on to bigger clubs is definitely a good strategy, although it’s humbling for some people. I would guess the Academy and new training ground will be focused on us bringing through more of our own talent.

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30 minutes ago, Rammit Bawdeep said:

Alternatively you look at the pricing structure, it seems to be sustainable in Germany to have lower prices and full stadiums. I recall a game v Dundee utd which was on sky (or setanta) and the prices were dropped, ended up with a full house

As far as I can tell although @Stellaboz might d better placed to say but the VAT on German sports tickets is 7% compared to our 20% obviously not the reason why our tickets are £20 and decent level of German football is under a tenner.

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