Walking Down The Halbeath Road

[Skyline Drifter]

6 hours ago, Chubbychops said:

Employers have to pay 100% of wages upfront and 80% of that figure is returned retropectively by the Government two months down the line.  Paying the 20% is unavoidable.

The two months down the line thing isnt right either. Its 6 weeks the 1st time while they got the system up and running but I think it will be monthly thereafter.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 minute ago, CallumPar said:

 

We’ve had players on shorter deals in recent years. After promotion in 2016, we gave Fordyce a deal until August, to see how he recovered from injury.

 

If you did then he signed it before the June window opened. Which would be fine as I said. You cant however sign a player in July or August for a further month. It would need to run to Jan 1st.

[CallumPar]

If you did then he signed it before the June window opened. Which would be fine as I said. You cant however sign a player in July or August for a further month. It would need to run to Jan 1st.

I genuinely think you’re getting confused here. Players are unlikely to sign contracts that expire out-with a transfer window. But I’m fairly sure there are no rules that say contracts have to expire within a window.

Going by your ‘rules’ every club in this division is in breach every year. Contracts run out on 31st May and the window doesn’t open until mid-June. Fancy explaining that one? I genuinely don’t think the SPFL/SFA can dictate how long contracts have to be and you’re getting mixed up with player registrations, not contracts. I could be wrong, but as I say, every club in this division has players out of contract before the transfer window opens every summer and I highly doubt we’re all in breach of league rules - unless you can prove me otherwise.

[101]

52 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Current football rules dont allow that. Minimum contract length is always start of the next window. So right now you can extend contracts to whatever date you like as the next window starts on 9th June. Once we pass 9th June the minimum contract length on the next signed one is 1st January. 

There are also ramifications for the three clubs in one season rule if you contract them beyond 1st July.

That's a shame then, I guess a lot of clubs will just shed their players. Hope FIFA/ UEFA come up with a plan to help the thousands of players out of contracts

[parsforlife]

8 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Compared to making them unemployed by not renewing contracts? Pretty sure the plsyer would probably prefer the 80%. He is talking about what to do with players whose contracts expire next month.

Compared to what any rational decent  person would do. We should do our best to retain players on 100% salary. Hopefully the SFA/spfl will relax rules on contract length to allow for the current situation and let rolling monthly contacts to exist.  

Baring that the hopefully the PFA will open up a scheme to support released players and we should be doing all we can to contribute to such a scheme. 

Any club who isn’t working along such lines are absolute scumbags, putting themselves/future success over the well being of their staff.  Unless you are calling in the liquidators in the next few days you should be paying staff their wages. That shouldn’t be at all controversial. 

I would hate to have to choose between my clubs survival and paying players. We should be doing absolutely everything we can to support players in this circumstances .  

Edited April 18, 2020 by parsforlife

[DA Baracus]

7 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Compared to what any rational decent  person would do. We should do our best to retain players on 100% salary. Hopefully the SFA/spfl will relax rules on contract length to allow for the current situation and let rolling monthly contacts to exist.  

Baring that the hopefully the PFA will open up a scheme to support released players and we should be doing all we can to contribute to such a scheme. 

Any isn’t working along such lines are absolute scumbags, putting themselves/future success over the well being of their staff.  Unless you are calling in the liquidators in the next few days you should be paying staff their wages. That shouldn’t be at all controversial. 

I would hate to have to choose between my clubs survival and paying players. We should be doing absolutely everything we can to support players in this circumstances .  

We should definitely be supporting players as much as we can but I don't agree that this means we should be retaining every single player.

Unless I've read you wrong and that's not what you mean.

Edited April 17, 2020 by DA Baracus

[Rob1885]

I disagree, I'd be inclined to keep them all if it's the difference between them having a job or not.

[Skyline Drifter]

5 hours ago, CallumPar said:

 

I genuinely think you’re getting confused here. Players are unlikely to sign contracts that expire out-with a transfer window. But I’m fairly sure there are no rules that say contracts have to expire within a window.

Going by your ‘rules’ every club in this division is in breach every year. Contracts run out on 31st May and the window doesn’t open until mid-June. Fancy explaining that one? I genuinely don’t think the SPFL/SFA can dictate how long contracts have to be and you’re getting mixed up with player registrations, not contracts. I could be wrong, but as I say, every club in this division has players out of contract before the transfer window opens every summer and I highly doubt we’re all in breach of league rules - unless you can prove me otherwise.

 

You have completely misread and misunderstood what I said. Re-read it. I never said contracts had to expire in a window (most of them dont). 

With respect its my job to deal with player contracts. The fact is that in the SPFL there is a minimum contract length and it MUST run to the start of the next window. Everyone contracted to 31st May was signed BEFORE 1st January. You appear to have forgotten there is a January window each year. Players signed in January however will be contracted until at least 9th June because the rules require it.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Skyline Drifter

[parsforlife]

3 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

You have completely misread and misunderstood what I said. Re-read it. I never said contracts had to expire in a window (most of them dont). 

With respect its my job to deal with player contracts. The fact is that in the SPFL there is a minimum contract length and it MUST run to the start of the next window. Everyone contracted to 31st May was signed BEFORE 1st January. You appear to have forgotten there is a January window each year. Players signed in January however will be contracted until at least 9th June because the rules require it.

If say we get to June and get a bit more certainty over a start date for the season could a player sign a deal on June 8th that took them to September? I know under normal circumstances a player would be reluctant to sign that as it would potentially leave them clubless  between windows but any contact will be better than nothing right now.

Also are we really expecting there to be no change to transfer windows? it makes no sense to keep it where it is just now. We are used to it running a month into the season but it looks likely it will end maybe 2 months before the start which will be impossible to work with.

[Finlay21]

2 hours ago, parsforlife said:

If say we get to June and get a bit more certainty over a start date for the season could a player sign a deal on June 8th that took them to September? I know under normal circumstances a player would be reluctant to sign that as it would potentially leave them clubless  between windows but any contact will be better than nothing right now.

Also are we really expecting there to be no change to transfer windows? it makes no sense to keep it where it is just now. We are used to it running a month into the season but it looks likely it will end maybe 2 months before the start which will be impossible to work with.

I think if a player is released in September he can then sign for any other club between windows as he is a free agent ( Skyline Drifter is that correct ?)

[parsforlife]

1 hour ago, Robbo63 said:

I think if a player is released in September he can then sign for any other club between windows as he is a free agent ( Skyline Drifter is that correct ?)

No.  You need to be a free agent on the before the end of the previous window to sign for a club before the start of the next window. Which is why it’s quite common for players to be released on deadline day.

[RandomGuy.]

11 hours ago, 101 said:

That's a shame then, I guess a lot of clubs will just shed their players. Hope FIFA/ UEFA come up with a plan to help the thousands of players out of contracts

I'm sure I read UEFA, or FIFA, had ringfenced an amount of money in their "savings" to help players if we're still in this situation later on in the year.

They never made it clear exactly what they intended, but there was definitely the suggestion league systems would get payouts to help players.

[parsforlife]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

I'm sure I read UEFA, or FIFA, had ringfenced an amount of money in their "savings" to help players if we're still in this situation later on in the year.

They never made it clear exactly what they intended, but there was definitely the suggestion league systems would get payouts to help players.

There is absolutely no chance anything notable will find its way down to this level. UEFA will help the big leagues first and even if some crumbs reach Scotland it will mostly go to sides to the OF, possibly even some to rest of premiership and that will be it.

[101]

4 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I'm sure I read UEFA, or FIFA, had ringfenced an amount of money in their "savings" to help players if we're still in this situation later on in the year.

They never made it clear exactly what they intended, but there was definitely the suggestion league systems would get payouts to help players.

That's a reassuring in principle, however I was a bit disappointed that UEFA or FIFA didn't give grants out to their members to help the smallest clubs. So I won't hold my breath.

[101]

11 hours ago, parsforlife said:

Any club who isn’t working along such lines are absolute scumbags, putting themselves/future success over the well being of their staff.  Unless you are calling in the liquidators in the next few days you should be paying staff their wages. That shouldn’t be at all controversial. 

I would hate to have to choose between my clubs survival and paying players. We should be doing absolutely everything we can to support players in this circumstances .  

I agree but after the first week of June they aren't our players, we have no duty of care. I don't see why we should be expected to pay 20% of their salary, I think we should keep them ticking over until the scheme is removed by the government and then sadly after that they are on their own, just like they would be in any summer.

We don't have to recontract them as players, in the gov guidance I couldn't see anywhere that stated their job title couldn't change, so surely we could register them as player coaches if the SFA required them to remain as football players, if not we could register them as admin staff with the same salary.

[parsforlife]

18 minutes ago, 101 said:

I agree but after the first week of June they aren't our players, we have no duty of care. I don't see why we should be expected to pay 20% of their salary, I think we should keep them ticking over until the scheme is removed by the government and then sadly after that they are on their own, just like they would be in any summer.

We don't have to recontract them as players, in the gov guidance I couldn't see anywhere that stated their job title couldn't change, so surely we could register them as player coaches if the SFA required them to remain as football players, if not we could register them as admin staff with the same salary.

Well it’s not like any other summer.  They can’t go and sign for another club and they will find it a lot more difficult to find work outside of football. Our duty of care extends further due to that.  

on the 2nd point, player coach wouldn’t do anything as they’d still be registered as players and unable to sign for someone else if the window doesn’t change.  We could leave them unregistered I guess(I don’t think you have to register players if you’re not going to play them, maybe @Skyline Drifter can confirm) don’t think job titles matter, they aren’t allowed to do any work anyway and if you changed the title I guess it would raise suspicion that they are, even if that’s not true.

[jagfox]

 

[Skyline Drifter]

5 hours ago, parsforlife said:

If say we get to June and get a bit more certainty over a start date for the season could a player sign a deal on June 8th that took them to September? I know under normal circumstances a player would be reluctant to sign that as it would potentially leave them clubless  between windows but any contact will be better than nothing right now.

Also are we really expecting there to be no change to transfer windows? it makes no sense to keep it where it is just now. We are used to it running a month into the season but it looks likely it will end maybe 2 months before the start which will be impossible to work with.

Yes, its potentially possible but they wkuld need to re-sign before the existing contract ended so would need done in May.

I think windows will change if seasons do need to start later. FIFA have already indicated a willingness to do that.

2 hours ago, Robbo63 said:

I think if a player is released in September he can then sign for any other club between windows as he is a free agent ( Skyline Drifter is that correct ?)

As others have said, that is not the case. But I expect as above that FIFA will move the window if we get that far.

[DA Baracus]

3 hours ago, parsforlife said:

Well it’s not like any other summer.  They can’t go and sign for another club and they will find it a lot more difficult to find work outside of football. Our duty of care extends further due to that.  

on the 2nd point, player coach wouldn’t do anything as they’d still be registered as players and unable to sign for someone else if the window doesn’t change.  We could leave them unregistered I guess(I don’t think you have to register players if you’re not going to play them, maybe @Skyline Drifter can confirm) don’t think job titles matter, they aren’t allowed to do any work anyway and if you changed the title I guess it would raise suspicion that they are, even if that’s not true.

They can go and sign for another club.

It will probably be difficult to do so then.

Tricky issue about our duty of care. Absolutely agree that we should be looking after all contracted players and staff. Not sure that we should be extending contracts of players who otherwise we would have let run out though. 

[parsforlife]

15 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

We should definitely be supporting players as much as we can but I don't agree that this means we should be retaining every single player.

Unless I've read you wrong and that's not what you mean.

unlikely clubs will signing new players this summer unless we have a pretty much guaranteed start date which I can’t see happening,  they’d be liable for 100% of the wage unlike if they were kept on and the government would be paying 80% of it.