Monday Night Raw Live

[forameus]

Austin seems even more staunch about not coming back than Michaels was, to the point that not even a Saudi payday is likely to persuade him.  Taker may make appearances, but I think he's finally done having any sort of match.

I think the only realistic option they have left to play is Rock against Reigns.  If they have him come out at Survivor Series and set up a long build to a WrestleMania match, that is something that will get a lot of eyes coming back.  But does big Dwayne want to come back to wrestling at this stage?  Does he feel like he can do it?  Does he - or his team - think it's worth the risk?  

But outside of that, it's really slim pickings to imagine something really big they could lead into WrestleMania with.  Maybe a big face run with Big E to try and create that Bryan/Kingston feeling.  But beyond that?  Goldberg coming back for another laboured match?  Heatless singles matches just to get people on the card?  Musical guest Kid Rock featuring Pitbull?

[TheGoon]

Thing is, they’re running that massive stadium two nights in a row next year. Rock/Roman is absolutely big enough to headline one, but I’ve no idea what you do on the other night. Lashley…Triple H!?   

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

I can't see Austin doing another match, regardless of the money shoved at him. He not too far off 60 and hasn't wrestled in 19 years - has anyone ever had a match after such a long hiatus?

[TheGoon]

6 minutes ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

I can't see Austin doing another match, regardless of the money shoved at him. He not too far off 60 and hasn't wrestled in 19 years - has anyone ever had a match after such a long hiatus?

Does Mike Tyson count?  

[Ludo*1]

44 minutes ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

I can't see Austin doing another match, regardless of the money shoved at him. He not too far off 60 and hasn't wrestled in 19 years - has anyone ever had a match after such a long hiatus?

That's an absolutely brilliant selling point for the match tbf.

[Mark Connolly]

5 hours ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

I can't see Austin doing another match, regardless of the money shoved at him. He not too far off 60 and hasn't wrestled in 19 years - has anyone ever had a match after such a long hiatus?

How long was Steamboat retired before the matches with Jericho? And even then, he was in far better shape than Austin could get into now

[FairWeatherFan]

27 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

How long was Steamboat retired before the matches with Jericho? And even then, he was in far better shape than Austin could get into now

Roughly 15 years. Turns out he also worked a bunch of house show matches after Backlash mainly against Drew McIntyre.

[We Are Pars Fans!]

They need to create new stars. Owens, Balor, Cesaro, McIntyre, Rollins, Styles and Ricochet are phenomenal in the ring but they don’t know how to use them creatively. Each of them would all be massive in AEW

[forameus]

Thing is, where are these new stars coming from?  Just a year or so ago, it was just a case of who from the indies is going to eventually come to WWE and be a success.  Plenty would do it, and out of the big trawler net they cast out, they'd get a few they were happy with who ended up having decent enough careers.  Now though, it seems like they're intent on picking up people who, with the best will in the world, can't wrestle, so they can teach them the WWE way.  I don't doubt they'll get some stars out of that, but it's a very long game, and I'm not convinced that the likes of Cena/Lesnar/Batista are out there just waiting to be put through the WWE system.  So they're then looking at their current roster to make stars, but with the way they're reportedly going, and their track record up to now, I can't see much changing.

I think the most interesting question is whether they plan to sell.  A McMahon owned WWE - at least if it's Vince owned and not Steph/HHH owned - is pretty easy to predict, but what does it look like if he punts it to someone else?  Does it get worse?  Does it turn around?  Do we start to see WWE as this exciting prospect where you've no idea who is going to turn up to?

[We Are Pars Fans!]

The Fiend is an example of something that could have been huge but they didn’t have a clue what to do.
They had him squashed by a 60 year old Goldberg, one of the worst booking decisions in history.
This churning out old timers bar the odd pop, nobody wants to see Taker, Goldberg, Kane etc wrestle.
The HHH, Michaels, Taker and Kane match in Saudi was probably the worst match I’ve ever seen

[forameus]

With the old timers though, again it's like you say, it's the booking that's the problem. Goldberg would be fine if he was used properly.  Having him come in and squash Wyatt was stupid, but having him come back for a 5 minute hoss fight every so often - that can still be great fun.  His stuff with Lesnar was brilliantly done.  His dismantling of Ziggler was entertaining (although more down to Ziggler's desperate need to sell).  His overly long tussle with Lashley?  Not so much.  Michaels coming back should have been incredible, but they fucked it.  Even though he looked like he could still go - especially given he was thrown into that position with HHH's pec going cheerio - he'll likely never come back again because of it.  You could have had him build up to a WM match with someone, but noooooo.

In terms of worst matches ever, I think the DX vs Taker/Kane one gets a pass given the circumstances.  It wouldn't have been good, but the horrible injury fucked it.  I think the worst goes to the Taker/Goldberg one for the sheer unprofessionalism and attempted murder that occurred.  And to be fair, you could probably just put any match that happened at the Saudi shows on the list, they were all either outright terrible or so incredibly forgettable.

[Ludo*1]

Just gonna say it, The Fiend had a lot of problems with the creative side of things, but the absolute biggest issue is that Bray Wyatt isn't a very good wrestler. He's a behemoth when it comes to creativeness, promos and aura but I can't remember a match where I've been blown away.

[forameus]

But is that really absolutely necessary now?  With the Fiend character, they could have coasted for years on him coming in, doing matches like his first one, never coming near belts.  A wrestling show is at its best when it's got a bit of everything.  WWE have plenty of guys who are amazing workers but might not have the charisma, plenty of guys that can go and talk, plenty of guys who can be genuinely funny.  I don't think it really mattered that Bray wasn't the best in the ring.  Until they started the whole having him go for titles stuff.  

[NotThePars]

Big E is claiming he's cashing in tonight. USA Network must be getting pissed off. Zero chance of a satisfying pay off to this of course.

[TheGoon]

They’ve already loved Orton/Lashley to tonight as well. I like them doing big stuff on TV, but we know there’s no build behind it, there’s no actual plans - they’re just doing it rather than making any fundamental changes. 

[rowsdower]

I mean, I'm going to watch now, maybe because of Big E, and maybe because there's no baseball on tonight, and I'm going to hate myself at 9:55pm when Big E is found at the bottom of a stairwell after he doesn't come out to his music.

[8MileBU]

On 09/09/2021 at 08:20, Ludo*1 said:

Just gonna say it, The Fiend had a lot of problems with the creative side of things, but the absolute biggest issue is that Bray Wyatt isn't a very good wrestler. He's a behemoth when it comes to creativeness, promos and aura but I can't remember a match where I've been blown away.

Never been a problem before. Half of the biggest stars the wrestling business has ever seen were dire wrestlers.

[forameus]

15 hours ago, NotThePars said:

Big E is claiming he's cashing in tonight. USA Network must be getting pissed off. Zero chance of a satisfying pay off to this of course.

So Big Edward is WWE Champion.  He deserves it, obviously, but it's hard to imagine there's much of a plan behind it all.  It feels like an attempt to pop a rating without thinking about what else they could do.  

[TheGoon]

Plans and everything aside, nobody deserves that belt and that moment more. What a man!

[NotThePars]

So Big Edward is WWE Champion.  He deserves it, obviously, but it's hard to imagine there's much of a plan behind it all.  It feels like an attempt to pop a rating without thinking about what else they could do.  

Given they booked Kofi like a midcarder and ended his reign in a manner which on reflection was pretty repugnant I don’t think anyone should have any faith. I’m made up for Big E as well but they’ve also treated Bobby Lashley a bit like shite as well despite being one of about 3 guys on RAW who are worth tuning in for.