Brave as a Lion Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Dave Whelan is clearly in love with Martinez. Why else would he come out with such ridiculous statements all the time? " Roberto will be the manager of one of the top three clubs in Europe, I don't think there's any doubt about that?" Aye I can see him replacing Mourinho at Madrid this summer, no doubt about it. He was even doubting that Everton were a big enough team for Martinez! It's ridiculous. I mean he has done quite a good job keeping Wigan in the Premier League and the runs they have went on towards the end of the season to keep them up have been fantastic but they are also utter, utter shite for large parts of every season. And what about the managers that kept Wigan up in the three or four seasons before Martinez joined? Why were they not destined for the top? Has Martinez really done a better job? He probably deserves a crack at a bigger team but I don't really see why Everton are after him. Dave Whelan has always talked up his managers it's in Wigan's interest that he does so. He is marketing them and has probably received a decent amount of componsation for his managers down the years. Martinez is a highly respected coach and manager in European football not just British football. There are a lot of people who think they know better than a lot of experienced people inside football and you just have to read comments on Davie Moyes for proof of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted May 9, 2013 Author Share Posted May 9, 2013 Martinez is a highly respected coach and manager in European football not just British football. There are a lot of people who think they know better than a lot of experienced people inside football and you just have to read comments on Davie Moyes for proof of this. Let's just shut the forum down then Why is Martinez more highly respected than, say, Chris Hughton? What has Martinez achieved that means he can be talked about as being too good for Everton without that being roundly laughed at by the media? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trgf Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Dave Whelan is clearly in love with Martinez. Why else would he come out with such ridiculous statements all the time? He used to say the same about Steve Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAGer Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 <script language='javascript'> </script> Dave Whelan has always talked up his managers it's in Wigan's interest that he does so. He is marketing them and has probably received a decent amount of componsation for his managers down the years. Martinez is a highly respected coach and manager in European football not just British football. There are a lot of people who think they know better than a lot of experienced people inside football and you just have to read comments on Davie Moyes for proof of this. I'm sure it's a case of Whelan just marketing his manager in the best way possible. He's been around football long enough to know that there's no way Martinez can go from Wigan to one of the top clubs in Europe without a couple of stepping stones in between, unless he achieves something ridiculous like winning the Europe League next year or qualifying for the Champions League. I'd like to see Martinez at Everton. Don't have any leanings towards Wigan but I've always wanted them to stay up whilst he was in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitão Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 He used to say the same about Steve Bruce. I suppose it is just a way of talking up the club and it's manager but he's going more than a bit over the top, it just looks silly in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave as a Lion Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Let's just shut the forum down then Why is Martinez more highly respected than, say, Chris Hughton? What has Martinez achieved that means he can be talked about as being too good for Everton without that being roundly laughed at by the media? No people are entitled to their opinion I respect that but people are saying he has done nothing but save Wigan from relegation. Well that in itself is an achievement in my opinion. In my opinion Wigan are no more than a mid table Championship side so I think he is punching above his weight. He never waivers from his philosophy even when it's not going well. He doesn't panic and sticks by his beleifs. He may even have a major trophy in his cabinet come Saturday night. He has more of a pedigree than Davie Moyes had when he took over at Everton and look what he done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 No people are entitled to their opinion I respect that but people are saying he has done nothing but save Wigan from relegation. Well that in itself is an achievement in my opinion. In my opinion Wigan are no more than a mid table Championship side Based on what? I bet you they don't have one of the 3 lowest wage bills in the EPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave as a Lion Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Based on what? I bet you they don't have one of the 3 lowest wage bills in the EPL. I would bet that they do. They probably have one of the lowest averge attendances in the EPL. I am basing it on the team and the players that they have. If they go down I don't think they will come straight back up and I don't even think they will make the play offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundermonkey Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Martinez has never solved Wigan's defensive problems. Either it's his failings or he just can't afford some decent centre halfs. He'll inherit a great set of defenders at Everton if that's where he ends up. I suppose then we'll find out. Certainly, going forward he knows how to put a team together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Martinez has acheived much more than Chris Houghton. He'd be a good choice for Wigan, but not the best. They should try and go for Clarke who'd be a great appointment. Their fans will just be praying they don't end up with a charlatan failure like Redknapp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted May 9, 2013 Author Share Posted May 9, 2013 No people are entitled to their opinion I respect that but people are saying he has done nothing but save Wigan from relegation. Well that in itself is an achievement in my opinion. In my opinion Wigan are no more than a mid table Championship side so I think he is punching above his weight. He never waivers from his philosophy even when it's not going well. He doesn't panic and sticks by his beleifs. He may even have a major trophy in his cabinet come Saturday night. He has more of a pedigree than Davie Moyes had when he took over at Everton and look what he done. The Everton David Moyes inherited was very different to the Everton Martinez would inherit. Moyes moved to Everton after the Walter Smith disaster, it was akin to someone like Dougie Freedman getting the Aston Villa job after the Martin O'Neill disaster I would bet that they do. They probably have one of the lowest averge attendances in the EPL. I am basing it on the team and the players that they have. If they go down I don't think they will come straight back up and I don't even think they will make the play offs. Wigan's wage budget last year was higher than Norwich's, Swansea's and Wolves's. Given only one of those teams was relegated, I'd guess Wigan's wage bill would still be higher than the other two and also larger than Reading and Southampton who were promoted. Figures from here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2013/apr/18/premier-league-club-accounts-debt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanky_ffc Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 2010-2011: Finished 16th with the 16th largest wagebill (£40m). Finished above 3 of the 4 teams with smaller wagebills. The other, West Brom with £37m, finished 11th. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/23/premier-league-accounts-profit-debt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_Premier_League 2011-2012: Finished 15th with 17th largest wagebill (£37m). Finished below 2 of the 3 teams with lower wagebills - Swansea in 11th (£35m) and Norwich in 12th (£37m). http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2013/apr/18/premier-league-club-accounts-debt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanky_ffc Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Great minds, Marshmallo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 If we're using budgets to quantify achievement nobody will look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanky_ffc Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 IMO, he's doing what's expected of him - avoiding relegation with a competitive budget that, in the last couple of seasons, has been bigger than at least 3 other teams in the league. Has he earned a chance at a bigger club? Debatable. Nonetheless, it'll be interesting to see how he does if he is given the Everton job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 If we're using budgets to quantify achievement nobody will look good. It is the best way to quantify achievment because it's the best indicator of league placing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 It is the best way to quantify achievment because it's the best indicator of league placing. It's pretty incomplete, though. For years Wigan have had amongst the smallest budgets and always survived. It's fairly standard that some newly promoted teams - although not West Ham and QPR - would have smaller budgets but they also benefit from being new quantities to the league, get that initial promotion boost, and have a team of winners who have gelled in the previous season. Martinez has had to keep reinventing the wheel at Wigan will new purchases after big players like Rodallega, N'Zogbia and Moses leave. Basically, if you are any good you leave and this isn't conducive to developing a long term team that can survive in the EPL - but yet that's what Wigan have done with often shrewd buys. Saying he has had the 15th biggest wage budget and some team with lower has finished above him therefore he isn't very good doesn't quite wash. He also gets a media boost because of his ability to shock the big teams and his fairly maverick tactical style. Houghton doesn't get the same because he isn't as good and plays Grant Holt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 It is the best way to quantify achievment because it's the best indicator of league placing. While you can model it fairly well it hardly indicates whose achieving what, Fergie will be over achieving slightly compared to budget but it will hardly be earthshatteringly higher. How many clubs with a lesser budget have finished above Fergie over the years? Doesn't really mean he's underachieved in all those seasons, rebuilding sides has to be factored in if we're using budgets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave as a Lion Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 So what the stats tell us is that last year Martinez led Wigan to finish 2 places higher than what his wage bill would suggest if the wage bills mirrored league placings? That is punching above his weight to me. What the budgets tell you is that Wigan should be in relegation battle every season and that is the reality of the situation. Inevitably there was going to be a season when their luck ran out and this seems to be the season. I will also add that Martinez played a big part in the Swansea success story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted May 9, 2013 Author Share Posted May 9, 2013 So he has punched his weight in terms of budget and is being talked about for a move to Barcelona or Real Madrid without people laughing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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