7-2 Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 The demise of the team is no co-incidence with him replacing Moyes. But, but...he's a much better manager than Moyes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larbert_Par Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 It's becoming hard to defend him. After the more pragmatic approach under Moyes - and the longevity of his tenure at Everton - the football played in Martinez's first season brought a great deal of freshness. It was different, it was open and it was exciting, whilst producing results. However, it appears that, very quickly, teams worked out how to play against the team, especially at Goodison, and Martinez has little alternative option to change things about. Last season saw warning sings - although the European sojurn was, on the whole, enjoyable - but some of the stuff this season has been alarming. The home form has been abysmal for 18 months for a start. Teams aren't scared to come to Goodison anymore as they know that if they park the bus and the Blues don't score early, or they nick one themselves, they're good for getting something out of it. There's a negative atmosphere often and while that doesn't help, I can understand fans' frustrations - Everton these days at home play a lot of nice passing but it often doesn't go anywhere. They don't play with the pace they should with guys like Barkley, Lennon, Geri etc. The individual form of certain players (Stones is a glaring example) has regressed at an alarming rate, as has that of the back four as a unit. The lack of ability to hold on to leads this season has been criminal - Chelsea and Bournemouth away, West Ham at home. The latter also showed he is capable of some bizarre tactical and personnel changes as he took off a midfielder for a striker while 2-0 up but with 10 men. On their day, especially away from home, they are capable of some excellent football. Martinez is a nice man (at times infuriatingly too positive though) and I do like and appreciate how he wants the game played. But I just don't see it working and, frankly, that group of players should be much better than 14th place in the league. To go from 5th, to bottom half (can't remember if it was 11th or 12th) and then 14th is worrying. The recent comments from Baines would indicate some of the team have lost faith in him and, even if they do win the FA Cup and thus reach the Europa League (heart says they'll win the cup, head says semi-final exit impending), it won't be enough to stop Lukaku (where would EFC be without his goals this year) wanting to leave, and others could follow. Although he has brought in some good players, he has also made some questionable purchases so do Everton trust him to improve the squad and performances? I was open in saying I would be happy had Everton gone for Martinez as I felt with better players he could do a better job than he did at Wigan. I'm not one for chanting managers out, but I can see why numbers are growing looking for change as the team simply are not performing anywhere near their capabilities. A cup win would probably save him but without that and if they finish in the region of 12th-14th, there should be a conversation in the boardroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valderrama Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 I'm not convinced that the squad it better than his first season which is entirely the issue. He hasn't improved the squad. Since his first transfer window, the only notable signings are getting permanent deals on loan players. Funes Mori, Cleverley and Lennon are the only players that I can think of that he didn't have in his first season. Let's say they've replaced Distin, Naismith and Mirallas (who I know is still there but not really featured). That's a worse team, in my opinion. Baines, Jagielka and Howard's form have gone downhill as well. Unless he gets at least 3 or 4 very good players in, then I can see him running Everton even further into the ground. If we take, as an example, the team from Moyes' last game in charge: 24 Howard 03 Baines 06 Jagielka 15 Distin 23 Coleman 04 Gibson 22 Pienaar 25 Fellaini 11 Mirallas 14 Naismith 28 Anichebe Substitutes 01 Mucha 02 Hibbert 05 Heitinga 34 Duffy 08 Oviedo 20 Barkley 07 Jelavic And compare it to the team that drew 0-0 with Palace last night: 01 Robles 23 Coleman 05 Stones 25 Funes Mori 03 Baines 16 McCarthy 18 Barry 20 Barkley 09 Koné 12 Lennon 10 Lukaku Substitutes 08 Oviedo 11 Mirallas 14 Niasse 17 Besic 19 Deulofeu 22 Pienaar 24 Howard We could easily split hairs here, but in my opinion the squad Martinez has at his disposal is superior in it's strength in depth. While I agree with you r.e. Howard and Baines dipping in form, you could also factor in Barkley, Stones and Coleman's progression as players. Admittedly this difference in squad quality is a fine margin and up for debate - however we could probably agree on one thing - that it's certainly not any worse, and therefore an element of consistency would be the least of the expectations from when Martinez took over, an expectation he has failed to deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accies1874 Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 I think we're looking at two different teams. I'm saying that he hasn't improved the squad from his first season in charge as opposed to Moyes' last season. He definitely has a better squad than Moyes had. However, he hasn't really improved upon the squad he had in the 2013/14 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 ^ Martinez has had the money to spend and invest in better attacking midfielders and strikers. The positive goal difference is a reflection of a few big wins against the teams at the bottom of the table. The defence is poorer and concedes too many bad goals. Howard's inconsistent form has been a factor too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds are Forever Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 I think we're looking at two different teams. I'm saying that he hasn't improved the squad from his first season in charge as opposed to Moyes' last season. He definitely has a better squad than Moyes had. However, he hasn't really improved upon the squad he had in the 2013/14 season. He hasn't improved it in terms of signings, however he has a few relatively young players who are much better players now than then - Stones, Coleman, Barkley, McCarthy to a lesser extent, and Lukaku more recently. He hasn't really improved it in terms of signings, but it has improved due players within the squad developing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accies1874 Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 He hasn't improved it in terms of signings, however he has a few relatively young players who are much better players now than then - Stones, Coleman, Barkley, McCarthy to a lesser extent, and Lukaku more recently. He hasn't really improved it in terms of signings, but it has improved due players within the squad developing.Baines, Barry, Howard and Jagielka have regressed, though. Mirallas' form has also gone downhill. I think they cancel each other out, to be honest. However, there's no denying that the group that he has should be top half. I completely agree that the players you've mentioned have improved whilst the others have gone downhill. I just feel that, as well as his tactical naivety, he's also at fault for not improving the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 Scenes if Moyers returned. Not sure how I'd feel about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 Horrific hair on the guy too. He needs to shave that. It's over m8, you're going bald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accies1874 Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 3 games unbeaten for Martinez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Man's a fucking joke. Hard fought point. Incredible fight. Get to f**k mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accies1874 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 He'll no doubt be away come the new season. It's just about whether they sack him now or in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 He'll get the Cup Semi but then be gone. Theres no recovering from tonight, a complete holocaust of a performance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s_dog Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Outdone himself today. No, tonight he has outdone himself. Even for Martinez that was something special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 Some great posts in the middle of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Medeiros Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 He's one of the few decent managers in the Premiership. Absolute madness to think some folk would prefer the punt-and-run antics of Moyes over Roberto. I'm one of the very select band that predicted Leicester's success. If Everton stick with Roberto 2017 will be epic. 1. Arsenal 2. Everton 3. Spurs 4. Stoke Your top 4 next year folks. Bump this the year after and doff the caps, AGAIN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Least he's got moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Martinez sacked after United put them out of the cup. Bielsa appointed, Martinez goes to Celtic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 Surely he has, at most, one game left after tonight? A complete fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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