Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Jambomo]

So what is to stop them now going for their dream of fucking off to England and starting in the Unibond league?

Geography? The English FA?

I can't help but think Rangers are in more trouble than people seem to think - what Scottish football thinks and does is probably less relevant than what HMRC thinks. HMRC were very badly criticised for letting off Vodafone and I think they want and need a high profile win here - rangers might bear the brunt of that.

Besides even if Rangers could get through it, what is going to be left of them to compete in the SPL ?

[pozbaird]

I wonder if Rangers themselves are thinking 'we'll get away with this because it's only 49 million and Vodafone got away with 4.2 billion'... I remember clearly the one and only time Strathclyde's finest done me for speeding. There were guys in big Mercs' and BMWs going faster than me through the Clyde tunnel and overtaking me - but I got done. Outrageous decision by plod when others were so clearly getting away with it.

A previous poster also said that football clubs are different and there's no point in HMRC liquidating them because they are guaranteed to generate profit. From HMRCs point of view, they may well generate profit, but what does that matter if they don't pay their taxes?

We can twist it any way we want. The fact is that Leeds United or Vodafone being b*****ds before them is no case for Rangers being let off. Spiers, out of all the talking heads on TV seems to be the one speaking clearly and objectively on the matter. He sees HMRC playing hard ball with Rangers specifically because of football clubs in the past getting away with murder. Maybe the line in the sand is now being drawn, and Rangers will be the ones to be hauled out in front of the class, given six of the best and made an example of.

Time will tell. Whatever happens, the ordinary staff members who will be shafted get my sympathy. I have no sympathy for Rangers supporters who lapped up the Murray glory years and are now wanting the same man burned at the stake for his acts of folly. You can't have it both ways.

[the jambo-rocker]

Geography? The English FA?

I can't help but think Rangers are in more trouble than people seem to think - what Scottish football thinks and does is probably less relevant than what HMRC thinks. HMRC were very badly criticised for letting off Vodafone and I think they want and need a high profile win here - rangers might bear the brunt of that.

Besides even if Rangers could get through it, what is going to be left of them to compete in the SPL ?

I don't think an extra 100 miles would hurt them as much as most teams. Personally however if teams in Wales are able to play then I see no issue with why they can't start from the bottom down there.

Time will tell. Although we don't have much ground to stand on ourselves of late, Rangers have spent out of their means and they deserve everything that they get thrown at them IMO.

First off, that annoying 11 v 1 rule on TV money would all of a sudden work in our favour. Although the deal would lose significant amount due to no longer there being an OF game, they would be finally able to distribute them more fairly. Celtic would take a hit in deficit and although the standard would go down short term, I'd gladly take the hit if it gave more teams a better crack at them.

[Jambomo]

I don't think an extra 100 miles would hurt them as much as most teams. Personally however if teams in Wales are able to play then I see no issue with why they can't start from the bottom down there.

Time will tell. Although we don't have much ground to stand on ourselves of late, Rangers have spent out of their means and they deserve everything that they get thrown at them IMO.

First off, that annoying 11 v 1 rule on TV money would all of a sudden work in our favour. Although the deal would lose significant amount due to no longer there being an OF game, they would be finally able to distribute them more fairly. Celtic would take a hit in deficit and although the standard would go down short term, I'd gladly take the hit if it gave more teams a better crack at them.

I'd take the hit as well. Whatever happens hopefully this will see a change in Scottish football that actually might in the long run be good. Fingers crossed

[Handsome_Devil]

The Welsh teams could play in England because when they joined there was no professional league in their own country. Berwick Rangers are a historical quirk but there is no way - absolutely none - UEFA will simply allow a new Rangers to choose which country they want to play in.

[Ross.]

I expect that in a few years time there will be a fan owned entity running a Rangers of some sort and challenging at the top of the SPL. The figures involved here simply don't add up to me and I can't see how Rangers in their current form can continue. I think HMRC will block a CVA, and if Whyte tries the pre pack route then I can't see the SPL transferring the league position to any entity that is run by him, as in light of all they have since found out about the guy there is no way he would pass the fit and proper persons test. Interesting times ahead.

The only thing I'm certain about is that a lot of folk will get royally shafted, and Craig Whyte won't be one of them. That was always his intention though.

[sjc]

This would however depend on that way in which Rangers FC (the footballing entity) was transferred to the new company. To be a member of SPL or SFL you must be a member of SFA - and for that a number of conditions apply. I'm pretty sure that includes 3 years audited accounts, an existing youth team, etc.

So a new company and club wouldn't fit that bill.

Transferring the 'footballing entity' asset from one company to another would, and could enable remaining in SPL... but such transfer requires SPL approval?

Buying an existing club would, again, require SPL/SFL approval... like Airdrie United... and who do they buy outside of perhaps East Stirlingshire way down in SFL3?

Every route has potential hurdles, certainly.

Could that be an insight into why Whyte's supposedly bought into some minnow team down near London ?

[Green&White Zebra]

Whyte is deliberately sinking the Rangers ship. It was already in troubled waters when he took over, but on assuming the helm he's effectively put the engine on full power and steered towards the nearest iceberg.

He's in it for short term personal gain and will be out as soon as possible with his miserable 2 million or so. The last thing he wants is a CVA, so liquidation it is.

There's a remarkable lack of movers and shakers in the background waiting to restart Newco Rangers. There's insufficient time to do the canvasing, negotiating and re-organising to get Newco Rangers back into the SPL for next season.

In fact, I think the entire Scottish game will operate on a Rangers-less basis next season.

Somewhere down the line, a Newco Rangers will be founded, probably next season and on a modest scale. They'll probably have to rent Ibrox from its new owners. They will be a pale pale shadow of their former selves.

The impact on the Scottish game will be felt for years. No one will be unaffected.

What happens to Celtic depends on whether they're able to move into any new set-up outside Scotland. If they stay, they are bound to diminish to a degree, although nowhere near the level of Rangers

For the remainder of Scottish football an historic opportunity awaits.

[MacWatt]

This is part of a well planned company restructuring exercise by Whyte. He knew of the tax debt when he took over and that administration was inevitable. He has just been waiting for the right moment. He will have been advised that HMRC will not vote for a CVA, it is their consistent policy not to. In these circumstances, liquidation is therefore and always has been inevetable. This will allow Whyte a pre pack route out and Rangers newco to emerge debt free.

Now the question is will the SFA/SPL allow Rangers newco to enter the SPL? I think we know that the answer to this is yes, otherwise, without Rangers the commercial value of the SPL to SKY/BBC and sponsors is considerably less and a number of other SPL clubs would follow Rangers into administration. (The 4 OF games are what the TV companies are paying for)

A lot of the commetns on here are more wishfull thinking than hard headed analysis.

[alimci]

Now the question is will the SFA/SPL allow Rangers newco to enter the SPL? I think we know that the answer to this is yes, otherwise, without Rangers the commercial value of the SPL to SKY/BBC and sponsors is considerably less and a number of other SPL clubs would follow Rangers into administration. (The 4 OF games are what the TV companies are paying for)

The problem with this is that if Rangers in some form remain within the SPL, how, with no money, are they supposed to remain competitive with Celtic and keep OF derbies worthwhile? There is no value in an OF game if Rangers have players of the same standard as the rest of us diddies and Celtic just walk game after game, so that will piss Sky off anyway.

[pozbaird]

This is part of a well planned company restructuring exercise by Whyte. He knew of the tax debt when he took over and that administration was inevitable. He has just been waiting for the right moment. He will have been advised that HMRC will not vote for a CVA, it is their consistent policy not to. In these circumstances, liquidation is therefore and always has been inevetable. This will allow Whyte a pre pack route out and Rangers newco to emerge debt free.

Now the question is will the SFA/SPL allow Rangers newco to enter the SPL? I think we know that the answer to this is yes, otherwise, without Rangers the commercial value of the SPL to SKY/BBC and sponsors is considerably less and a number of other SPL clubs would follow Rangers into administration. (The 4 OF games are what the TV companies are paying for)

A lot of the commetns on here are more wishfull thinking than hard headed analysis.

Say it panned out as you suggest. Instead of the Scottish football authorities fast-tracking 'NewCo Rangers' straight back into the SPL to keep Sky TV interested, maybe Sky TV would find it interesting to cover the adventures of NewCo Rangers on TV as they start life at the bottom of the pile and undoubtably rise quickly through the leagues. Think about it. NewCo Rangers, papped to the bottom of the pile, would be playing away in tiny venues with very low capacities. Teams in Divs 3, 2, and then 1 would benefit from sell-outs when NewCo Rangers came to town, and if Sky TV covered every NewCo Rangers away game live, it would allow NewCo Rangers fans who couldn't get tickets to these tiny away grounds to watch their team.

Sky might find this more attractive TV than run-of-the-mill SPL fodder. Maybe they could do a docu-soap to run along their live NewCo Rangers games, like 'The Osbournes'.... cameras following the supporters to far flung glamourous locales like Methil and Peterhead. Behind-the-scenes coverage... a whole world of possibilities.

If they put NewCo Rangers kits having Irn Bru patches sewn on the sleeves on live TV - I'd pay £15 to see it on pay-per-view no worries.

[H_B]

What happens to Celtic depends on whether they're able to move into any new set-up outside Scotland.

I can certainly answer that one for you. They won't be leaving Scotland - Celtic aren't wanted elsewhere, other than perhaps the League of Ireland.

[alimci]

Say it panned out as you suggest. Instead of the Scottish football authorities fast-tracking 'NewCo Rangers' straight back into the SPL to keep Sky TV interested, maybe Sky TV would find it interesting to cover the adventures of NewCo Rangers on TV as they start life at the bottom of the pile and undoubtably rise quickly through the leagues. Think about it. NewCo Rangers, papped to the bottom of the pile, would be playing away in tiny venues with very low capacities. Teams in Divs 3, 2, and then 1 would benefit from sell-outs when NewCo Rangers came to town, and if Sky TV covered every NewCo Rangers away game live, it would allow NewCo Rangers fans who couldn't get tickets to these tiny away grounds to watch their team.

Sky might find this more attractive TV than run-of-the-mill SPL fodder. Maybe they could do a docu-soap to run along their live NewCo Rangers games, like 'The Osbournes'.... cameras following the supporters to far flung glamourous locales like Methil and Peterhead. Behind-the-scenes coverage... a whole world of possibilities.

If they put NewCo Rangers kits having Irn Bru patches sewn on the sleeves on live TV - I'd pay £15 to see it on pay-per-view no worries.

Nice idea. Might even pop over to see them get beaten by The Shire. Would improve home gates of a lot of smaller clubs.

[MacWatt]

The problem with this is that if Rangers in some form remain within the SPL, how, with no money, are they supposed to remain competitive with Celtic and keep OF derbies worthwhile? There is no value in an OF game if Rangers have players of the same standard as the rest of us diddies and Celtic just walk game after game, so that will piss Sky off anyway.

They would be debt free although they would have to pay their taxes! And live within their means. Their turnover would still dwarf other SPL teams and still allow them to pay bigger wages than the others. They will probably remain fairly comptetitve but I think Celtic would dominate the league for few years.

[chico]

the other spl clubs know how much money they need to run a decent squad.

killie, aberdeen, hearts and united owe over £50 million to banks between them. the idea that they will chuck out rangers (or their bankers would let them) when it could lead to following them down the swanny is mental.

if the the clubs have a chance they need to change the 11-1 voting and then let rangers back in. celtic will now doubt push for some sort of multi year points deduction and mad vlad could do anything but the 9 sane clubs will, quite rightly, be keen for business as usual

Agree the hand of self interest will see Killie and Dunfermline side with Rangers

[Uncle Psychosis]

Interesting people keep mentioning Vodafone being let off as evidence rangers will be too. There are now strong suggestions that the Vodafone deal was illegal. I think HMRC are too far into the spotlight to let rangers off lightly.

[craigkillie]

Agree the hand of self interest will see Killie and Dunfermline side with Rangers

Dunfermline are surely the club with most to gain if Rangers were not admitted to the SPL. They would dodge relegation if Rangers went bust and didn't return to the SPL.

Our bank debt is around £9m and decreasing. We would certainly be worse off in the short term without Rangers, but we are not in as perilous a situation as some might have you believe.

[HibeeJibee]

Could that be an insight into why Whyte's supposedly bought into some minnow team down near London ?

No. Why buy some minnow team down in England, and not say some Highland League outfit (e.g. Clachnacuddin have been in administration for years). People look at this English club and concoct all manner of conspiracy theories around it, but all are fanciful, the "gateway to EPL" one particularly.

Anyway, as I've posted on another thread, Andrew Smith in today's Scotsman says he understands that if Rangers FC plc or whatever is liquidated, the "course of action" is likely to be:

[1] SPL Board permits transfer of league share to a different company

(i.e. Leeds Utd scenario, not Airdrieonians scenario)

[2] Rangers fined "around" 15pts per season, for 3 seasons, "as punishment and deterrent"

[3] Rangers unable to qualify for Europe for 3 seasons

That looks pretty plausible.

[TheGreenMonster]

HM Revenue and Customs has lodged an application to put Rangers into administration.

On Tuesday HMRC lodged the order with the Court of Session in Edinburgh calling for the court to appoint an administrator.

The Court of Session confirmed to STV that the application is scheduled to be heard before a judge from midday on Tuesday. HMRC is due to make a statement on the steps of the court afterwards.

The move comes after the Ibrox club had lodged its own notice of intent to appoint an administrator on Monday. The court will now have to decide whether the administrator should be appointed by Rangers or the tax authorities - with important implications for the future of the club.

Rangers are currently awaiting the result of a crucial tax case with HMRC, which owner Craig Whyte has confirmed could leave the club owing up to £75m.

[Meatwad]