Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[FinnesTON]

You mean fair play was when they tried to force Rangers into accepting an illegal transfer embargo ?

I agree the SFA/SPL have handled this situation dreadfully. The worst was when they tried to bully the SFL into putting Rangers into SFL 1. That was to benefit nobody but the SPL. We as a support were never going to accept that. We were never going to accept being put into the SPL with points and /or financial penalties. There was only 1 place we wanted to be and that was the SFL 3.

Instead of this continued bickering it is important that ALL supporters of current SFL clubs get the message over to their club chairmen that we will not accept Rangers being fast tracked into the SPL via a new league set up. People like you are walking around blinkered by your hatred of Rangers.. open your eyes and see we don't want any special treatment...We accept our wrong doing and will accept the punishments we have had and may receive. I'll be honest i NEVER want to have any part of the SPL again but realise that is unrealistic and that we will 1 day be promoted back into that league but the only way i will swallow that bitter pill is if we achieve it on the football pitch fairly!

All the gerrymandering that has been attempted has been to suit the clubs in the SPL and their precious TV deal that means so much to them.

That was an accommodation not to suspend or expel if that had occurred then you could not have transferred the license and Sevco would have had to apply as a new club at the very lowest tier of Scottish football.

That is why I for one will never let this go you tell us you have been punished no you haven't at every turn the authorities to protect themselves have aided your resurrection.

Look at the statement just short of match fixing a fine was deemed insufficient by a fine and the other options were suspension or expulsion.

You as a supporter may not want special treatment but to ignore the role the authorities have in allowing these past and future concessions to occur shows an element of blinkered delusion. The SFA / SPL / SFL have all been guilty , your club have been involved within those negotiations in which is aimed at protecting the financial status of those football bodies.

The rules are for everyone to follow no exceptions even if you can fill the nation stadium 3 times over. Your club broke the rules end of and should have been punished as every other case, you weren't and have been allowed to continue in whatever guise you now see yourself.

Your club accepted the so called illegal ban after it became clear they were not going to be competing within the SPL so avoiding any possible humiliation of getting beaten by your nemesis.

I have no doubt you want to see through the exile but your club doesn't and nor do the authorities and nor do Celtic's board thats the point those who make the decisions will have a vested interest in pertaining you are the same club ( your not), returning you to the top tier as quickly as possible to secure the financial stability and power base. The SFA and the others know if you stop believing you are the same then the chances are some would fall away and be lost to the game which would end the rivalry and further reduce revenue and the stability of the SFA/ SPL.

The only authority who can and will act independently are UEFA as they have nothing to lose or gain from any decisons made.

Hostility towards this situation is by refusing to accept your clubs involvement with the authorities of the game, why allow Campbell Ogilvie to continue in his position within the SFA despite his involvement within the old tainted regime at Ibrox.

You won't accept Harper MacLeod 's involvement because they worked for Celtic but say little if anything of Ogilvie.

I have stated that your support will continue to dispute any wrong doing and the rest left disatisified due to the leniency of any punishment.

[zurcher]

I made my feelings perfectly clear with regards to the agenda that I feel Harper Mac have, if this unproffesional outburst is true then yes I think they are capable of "playing" with the evidence, it does not overly concern me because we have the appeal process that will allow us to take this to an appropriate appeal body

I have also made it crstal on several occasions that I will accept whatever this tribunal and or appeal body have to say along with punishments (if any) which so far only 1 other poster has given the same agreement

Would you commit on this?

Firstly I'm sure I already mentioned this, probably a thousand or so pages back, but I have first hand knowledge of EBTs and know them to be tax dodging. The very nature of them guarantees that multiple contracts are necessary, as one contract is registered with the authorities showing the taxable salary, and then a second contract (which I assume to be the so called "side letters") is given to the employee on a top secret basis detailing the true amounts including what will be paid into the offshore account for "loan" purposes. These "loans" are never paid back, they are termed in this way only to take advantage of a legal grey area. Now for the non UK resident benificiaries who never, ever brought any of this cash into the UK, it's not a problem, for the UK resident ones who did, it's a massive issue. But this is beside the point, the relative fact for Rangers is that side contracts were issued, and these most definitely would not be registered with the authorities.

Secondly, as I have definitely stated again quite recently, I don't really care about the stripping of titles, you can keep them as part of the history if it keeps you happy. The thing that bothers me is pretending that these 54 titles somehow have anything at all to do with Sevco. They demonstrably do not, and The Rangers' history started a couple of months ago when they bought the assets of Dead (dying to be pedantic) Rangers.

So will I accept a not guilty verdict? I'll probably just laugh as it would ably demonstrate one set of rules for the rich and another for the rest of us. But the funniest thing about this is the often unemployed or low earning Rangers fans who blab on about EBTs as "legal" and nothing at all to worry about when it is genuinely tax dodging. A large proportion of your no doubt hard-earned season ticket and pie'n'bovril cash went offshore and no tax was ever, or will ever be paid on this from people you call heroes. If I was a Rangers fan that fact would outrage me.

That was the opinion of the panel who invented a punishment. I have a chocolate fireguard with more credibility.

And it's good to know you're seething. It's not going to help you much as we inevitably return to our rightful place at the very top. And - at the core of the diddy clubbers and plastics seethe - we all know that's going to happen.

As I stated earlier, the punishment was invented to benefit you, as the only other option would be to suspend or expel you from the league, therefore effectively killing Rangers and Sevco as a going concern. Check the rules in the link I posted before, this is pretty clear.

And that famous humility again eh? I have little doubt that you will climb back to the top, but the rest of us will never forget the cheating and hubris along the way.

You really don't have to justify yourself to a bitter , twisted , patronising tit like him. You shouldn't lower yourself mate. Leave them to wallow in their hatred

And again with the reasoned and articulate take down of my arguments. You are a star.

[Bendarroch]

I have stated that your support will continue to dispute any wrong doing and the rest left disatisified due to the leniency of any punishment.

That would be a very, very pleasing outcome.

Enjoy your hate. Because, in the real world, The Rangers are busy with matters of considerably more importance than the opinion of some diddy club supporter crippled by angst.

[Bookies Love Me]

I made my feelings perfectly clear with regards to the agenda that I feel Harper Mac have, if this unproffesional outburst is true then yes I think they are capable of "playing" with the evidence, it does not overly concern me because we have the appeal process that will allow us to take this to an appropriate appeal body

I have also made it crstal on several occasions that I will accept whatever this tribunal and or appeal body have to say along with punishments (if any) which so far only 1 other poster has given the same agreement

Would you commit on this?

What the F*** is it with you lot that EVERYBODY has to have an AGENDA??!!??

The only person who has an AGENDA in your sense of the word is Green.

You've been having the wool pulled over your eyes for years by your own club officials and have never said fecking thing.

Now, because a company, who in the past, have had dealings with your arch-rivals, you're up in arms and saying they will be tampering with the evidence (that is comedy gold material).

BTW: Don't you know that an agenda can also mean "a list of topics for discussion at a meeting" i.e. an Independent Hearing.

[Bendarroch]

And that famous humility again eh?

Oh, please...

[PeeTeeJag]

Would any other club or it's supporters have fallen for Green's words and promises as quickly as the SevCo fans have? I highly doubt it.

They were that desperate to save the club that they were left with the last man standing and had no other option but to put their faith in him. Green has played the fans perfectly. He's push all the right buttons when it comes to getting them onside, even if it means appealing to the lowest common denominator.

A number of SevCo fans on here have stated that they don't trust Green, but they will still hand over their cash to him and hope with fingers crossed that he isn't pulling a fast one.

But what if he is?

Questions like that on here are usually batted away by SevCo fans as speculation, shit stirring, and nonsense. But isn't this all a little familiar? A number of years ago when questions were being asked about how OldCo could afford all these high earning players, the people asking these questions were being shouted down and ignored as either anti-rangers or just jealous of the club's success. Even when Craig Whyte was being challenged on BBC we had the siege mentality evident by some of the comments from OldCo fans.

At times when the question has been answered the reply is usually along the lines of "we'd run him out of town!!!". Understandable, but then what????

SevCo are becoming like the Titanic and Gr£tna. The Titanic sank because of a failure by many to heed warnings that they ignored over and over again. I mean, what were the odds of an iceberg hitting??? The ship plowed on at full speed as the owners wanted to impressive everyone, but all the while they had hidden how badly she was put together.

And as for Gr£tna........

Many took an interest, just like in SevCo, not because of a hatred for the club (more of a dislike), but because it seemed obvious to everyone outside of the club and supporters that it was all going to go spectacularly wrong eventually. No matter how much it was pointed out to fans they were too busy enjoying the ride, ignoring evidence that even Stevie Wonder would have seen, and as long as they didn't think about what was going on in the background, they were happy. But when it did go wrong, the fans were all confused about how it had happened and it came as a shock to them. But to nobody else.

I used to work in construction, and I know of many guys that have no life or accident insurance. The reason? They feel that it is tempting fate to get these things because then they will have an accident. Weird, but a very common thought.

SevCo fans are the same. They may not trust Charles Green, but they feel as long as 40000 keep turning up and supporting the team then everything will be fine. Fans of Sheffield United warned SevCo fans before Green took over what to expect from him, and he has been everything they said he would be. It's as if the fans are saying "if we ask questions and he gives us truthful answers then that brings everything to a head and will put us in the shit. Best to leave it alone and hope it never happens."

We have to trust the guys that run our clubs to do the best they can for the club and it's fans. I don't know a single SevCo fan that trusts Green enough to say that. They trusted Murray, but it wasn't until he left that directors, journos, etc started to say they've had doubts about how he ran the club for years.

Craig Whyte is being slated for using money that wasn't his to buy the club, and then was going to use season ticket money to pay back that loan. Plus his promises of investors and a warchest. Yet, what exactly is Green doing with all the season ticket money? Where and who are his investors? What is happening to all the money at Ibrox the fans are putting in? No one knows except him, and he isn't for telling anyone.

If you believe this post to be pish, then that is your right. But I have yet to see any SevCo fans post any factual evidence to show that Green is the man to lead the club forward and isn't dodgy.

When the whole support is unanimous in it's concern of Green, then that sends out alarm bells. Maybe in some perverse way the level of bullshit coming out of Ibrox just now is too much for the fans to comprehend, and they can't believe that someone would have the balls to dupe them again. Again.

Let's be honest we diddy fans would love to see SevCo go tits up, and Celtic for that matter. Neither set of fans can grasp this concept, and never will.

But just because we may not like your club and it's support, that doesn't mean that what we are saying is untrue.

Trust has to be earned, and from what I can see not only has Green not earned that trust from the fans, he hasn't even tried to earn it. He said that he didn't want to name his 20 backers until the CVA was decided. Well, it's been decided, yet still no names. Why?

Bury your heads as long as you like SevCo fans, but eventually you'll have to come up for air. When you do will you spend your time arguing with everyone on here about how everything is speculation and dismissing them because they aren't a SevCo fan, or will you do what NO ONE else is prepared to do, and demand answers from Green?

It is after all YOUR money!!!

Edited September 6, 2012 by PeeTeeJag

[youngsy]

It's "seethe", and I do pay attention to the couple of Rangers fans here who post occasional sense but then largely all assume that because a firm of lawyers acted for their rivals that firm is automatically biased against them, that's no humility, that's stupidity. You aren't seriously going to deny to me that the vast majority of your fans fit quite nicely into the stereotype I have outlined are you? Even if you consider yourself not to, your postings on the lawyer situation have shown you to be as ridiculously ill-informed and blinkered as the worst of them, on that issue at least.

I also am a Glaswegian, and most of my friends are Rangers fans, apart from one or two honourable exceptions, the vast majority, even guys I consider to be smart and sensible, talk the same pish that the rest of you come out with - it's all a conspiracy, everone haates us, we've been punished enough, nae f*nians are gaunie investigate us man. etc etc.

But go on, you consider yourself to be a sensible Rangers poster, and in fairness you usually are from what I can see, but that sense is relative to the rest of them.

The guilty charges (and one not proven), and details of rules broken are here:

http://www.scottishf...D=1&newsID=9718

You stated "found guilty of blatant cheating". Not one of the charges levelled at Rangers was regarding cheating to gain advantage so quite a fail on that. The charges found guilty of were Rule 2 "not procuring club officials acted in accordance with Rule 1". Rule 66 Craig Whyte bringing the game into disrepute. Rule 105 In breach of direction of tribunal. Rule 325 Failing to pay a club monies due on the day of the match under Rule 46 c(3) of Scottish Cup competition rules. So in that respect your post is wrong as the club were never charged with what you suggest or indeed were not found guilty of what you suggest.

Edited September 6, 2012 by youngsy

[beermonkey]

You really don't have to justify yourself to a bitter , twisted , patronising tit like him. You shouldn't lower yourself mate. Leave them to wallow in their hatred

Does anyone else laugh out loud when sevco fans use these phrases ?

Their whole (dead) club was founded and thrived on these principles.

:lol:

[PeeTeeJag]

My knowledge of EBT`s is very ltd, I have never pretended otherwise, I wait the descision of the tribunal and or appeal body on this, the very fact we need such a tribunal is proof to me that the case is not as you make out clear cut, if it was then we would simply have been found guilty

The matter of titles which again i did not mention on my posts to you is a matter for the Scottish Footballing authorities to deal with the SFA were not gifted with foresight is seems, they made no provision for any of the events that unfolded and made things up as they went and yes some of these descision have suited my club, its not been 100% bad

What I do believe is that some sort of sanity prevailed, to make Rangers extinct would have no benefit for the game in Scotland, it is a fact that Rangers have a lot of supporters, many of which like to pay to go and watch Football, if the club had dissapeared so would have these supporters, they would not have just started to support some other team, more kids running about in english team jerseys would have been the result and more diminishing of our game

So what your saying is that there is absolutely nothing that the club could ever do that will see it not longer exist?

[zurcher]

Does anyone else laugh out loud when sevco fans use these phrases ?

Their whole (dead) club was founded and thrived on these principles.

:lol:

Indeed, the irony and lack of self awareness is shocking innit? It's largely why I still check OrcMedia every day for guys who will give incredible sectarian abuse to anyone who disagrees with them then in the next post talk about how much they hate bigots.

"I demand the right to call someone a durty f**ian, *****, tarrier, mhankie basturt and if you hink at's wrang then you're a pure bitter, twisted bigot in't ye?"

[PeeTeeJag]

What was the other choice? give the club f**k all and watch it go under?

At least try to present another option if you going to take the time to write such a large post

So far this season I am extremely happy with the quality of product on show for the money I am paying, but I am paying in installments for a reason

Would I invest with Green? Where is the business plan Mr Green would be my answer

And that's exactly why you are in the situation you are in!!!!

If George Bush had turned up instead of Green, the fans would still have given him their money, despite being warned by people who have had previous dealings with him, not to go anywhere near him.

How would the club go under? I'm sure we are always being told on here that there will always be a rangers.

I'll give you another option. Get your millions of fans around the world to put £1 each in to an account and buy the club yourselves. It's a loyal support and would willing put up the cash. Oh hang on, I forgot that's been tried before. Oops.

Alternatively, admit the club can't be saved and do the decent thing and pull the plug.

Then why don't you ask Mr Green where his business plan is?

Edited September 6, 2012 by PeeTeeJag

[Itwiznaeme]

You really don't have to justify yourself to a bitter, twisted , patronising tit like him. You shouldn't lower yourself mate. Leave them to wallow in their hatred

Does anyone else laugh out loud when sevco fans use these phrases ?

Their whole (dead) club was founded and thrived on these principles. :lol:

Yes!

[Bairnforever1992]

Tick tock.

Ignore us all you want while we can laugh all day long when the final tribunal and the tax case comes into light to finally kill Rangers 2012 end of.

[PeeTeeJag]

depends if you want hatred over sanity to prevail

if you want the club extinct just say it and our debate is at an end, I dont converse with those that want this

You are right, I don't converse with people that would rather not answer the question put to them for fear of them having to give an answer that they themselves don't like.

[PeeTeeJag]

Fan buyouts need a lot of time to organise, they also need clear business plans submitted, neither of which we had

We also had no choice in the matter D & P being the administrators sold the club to Green

So you are still not providing an alternative

Yeah I did. Pull the plug.

Are rangers bigger than Enron was? Not even close. But you'll find there is no longer an Enron. A company that was massive even by American standards.

Nothing is forever, no matter how much you want it to be.

"they also need clear business plans submitted, neither of which we had." You still don't have a business plan submitted!!!

[PeeTeeJag]

What was your question?

Do you want the club extinct?

My question was - So what your saying is that there is absolutely nothing that the club could ever do that will see it no longer exist?

Do I want the club extinct? Honestly? I don't care. Yes, you read that right. I don't care. It's a football club. A game. Would I be gutted if Thistle went to the wall. Ofcourse, but it wouldn't change my life that much.

Would I be happy to see an end to all the baggage the comes with rangers and celtic. Most definitely. Would I be glad to open a paper and not have wall to wall coverage of some overpaid player's view on the world of football? It would be refreshing.

Would the whole school breath a sigh of relief if one or two school bullies got expelled never to return? Ofcourse

The problem that we diddy fans have with the OF is that for many it is their life, not just a team to support for a couple of hours on a saturday. You ruffle our hair, and pat us on the head when we air our opinions because we all know that only two teams matter in Scotland, and the rest are just making up the numbers.

What do my thoughts on your club matter anyway? Your views on my club would mean nothing to me. But then I don't believe that just because someone isn't a Partick Thistle supporter, it means they hate the club.

Do I love my club? Yes. Would I still support my club if it was renowned for it's sectarianism, fighting, filling up A&Es and police cells? Definitely not. Even if I didn't partake in any of that, I would still feel guilty by association.

Edited September 6, 2012 by PeeTeeJag

[PeeTeeJag]

Enron dont have fans and before you start Employees and Investors are not Fans and only have an interest in the doh, fans only interest is Football and that is unique

My point was Tedi, that no one thought Enron would collapse. But it did.

But hey, don't worry about it, I'm sure if I had said to you 10 years ago that your club would be playing in the 3rd division in 2012 you wouldn't have believed that either.

But guess what? They are.

[PeeTeeJag]

Who is Green pushing the share issue onto ?

Don't ask him questions he doesn't like to hear himself answer wisbit.

[TheTaxMan]

You're wasting your time, you'll never convince them

[PeeTeeJag]

Remind you of anyone?