Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[beermonkey]

Deleted dut to some figures tables not showing.

Maybe someone else can do it properly.

Well i'm not doing it again.

[ayrmad]

Has it actually been confirmed outside of a Daily Record story that we're paying anyone £7k a week?

It doesn't really matter, it's proved Newco can afford to spend outrageously.

[~~~]

Has it actually been confirmed outside of a Daily Record story that we're paying anyone £7k a week?

Not sure, but still considering what just happenend to the last club, you've think Rangers fans would be right on his case wanting to know if these stories are true, and if so where is the cash coming from!

[KnightswoodBear]

It doesn't really matter, it's proved Newco can afford to spend outrageously.

I'm not disagreeing, more wondering if the contracts are Division specific. £2k per week Div3, £3k Div2 up to £7k on promotion back to the SPL, for example.

I do find it amusing that folk accuse Rangers fans of believeing everything the Daily Record tells us, but in the same breath blindly accepts that we're paying someone £7k a week because the paper says so.

[loonapick]

I'm not disagreeing, more wondering if the contracts are Division specific. £2k per week Div3, £3k Div2 up to £7k on promotion back to the SPL, for example.

I do find it amusing that folk accuse Rangers fans of believeing everything the Daily Record tells us, but in the same breath blindly accepts that we're paying someone £7k a week because the paper says so.

I'm curious.

HAVE any The Rangers fans been asking "Where'e the money coming from?"

Or are they just swallowing the propaganda again? Because if they are, then if and when The Rangers follow their predecessors into administration and liquidation, The Rangers fans cannot plead that they are victims in the way that those poor Rangers fans did.

[cyderspaceman]

Well i'm not doing it again.

Short version

As you can see I have used 5k for everyone except McCulloch. The 10k figure is a reduction of 50% on his reported wage pre administration of 20k. He is quite possibly still on 20k as he TUPE’d across, and this allows him to keep the same contract terms. This gives a squad average wage of 2568 a week. Over a year for the 22 players it would be just over 2.9M. We then need to factor in pension, accommodation and other costs as detailed in the admin reports. There is also a large backroom staff and office staff, accountants etc on the payroll, which we have estimated below. This is probably a low ball estimate, as McCoist and Durrant are also included in this figure, which also needs to include ticket staff, ground staff, office, directors pay amongst others. So, how does this affect the bottom line? Well, we’ll put together the full accounts now, and show you where it leaves Sevco.

Match income £ 8,712,500.00

Sponsorship £ 1,500,000.00

TV £ 50,000.00

Programme sales £ 150,000.00

Hospitality £ 1,500,000.00

Others £ 800,000.00

Total income £ 12,712,500.00

Expense

Player salary £ 2,938,000.00

Pension/accomadation £ 550,000.00

PAYE/NIC £ 1,469,000.00

office staff/coaches £ 750,000.00

Total wage £ 5,707,000.00

match day costs £ 400,000.00

Security/Police £ 1,000,000.00

Programme costs £ 45,000.00

AV/Media costs £ 250,000.00

Medical costs £ 20,000.00

facilities cost £ 550,000.00

catering costs £ 2,500,000.00

lease/hire agreements £ 850,000.00

utilities £ 640,000.00

waste disposal £ 120,000.00

software/licenses £ 250,000.00

football community £ 100,000.00

misc costs £ 150,000.00

Total expense £ 6,875,000.00

Total costs £ 12,582,000.00

Minus VAT £ 2,351,812.50

Profit/Loss -£ 2,221,312.50

As you can see… we have a big red figure there. Sevco simply can’t afford the players. But I’m not finished. The eagle eyed will have noticed that a few players, notably the Americans are missing. Now, while reports say they will be leaving, they have not left yet. They are under no pressure to leave, as they have valid contracts. So let’s factor them in.

So another million loss, unless they can move them on. Lets now look at what they need to do to breakeven.

Total income £ 12,712,500.00

Expense

Player salary £ 1,683,791.67

Profit/Loss £ -

Av wage to breakeven £ 1,471.85

The questions that need to be asked:

Did the SFA ask to see these numbers? Did they sign off on them?

How did Sevco show they were a sustainable business without audited accounts? Have they posted a financial guarantee they will see out the season?

Who is funding all this? Who are the shareholders? Are they fit and proper?

In the words of Ally McCoist himself… I demand to know who these people are…

As usual, full figures are available here – feel free to suggest improvements to the model.

[ayrmad]

I'm not disagreeing, more wondering if the contracts are Division specific. £2k per week Div3, £3k Div2 up to £7k on promotion back to the SPL, for example.

I do find it amusing that folk accuse Rangers fans of believeing everything the Daily Record tells us, but in the same breath blindly accepts that we're paying someone £7k a week because the paper says so.

I've given up reading that drivel.

30000 ST's, merchandising and cup gates/prize money will fill the shortfall in his figures comfortably IMHO.

You can shave £1m off his PAYE figure as well unless I'm missing something obvious.

They could have reached the SPL with £15/20m in reserve and still walked all 3 divisions.

Edited August 9, 2012 by ayrmad

[cement]

Have sevco revealed how much they are charging for a home league match? Not seen this posted anywhere yet.

£10-£12 is the average in the 3rd division, can't see them going that low though.

[KnightswoodBear]

I've given up reading that drivel.

30000 ST's, merchandising and cup gates/prize money will fill the shortfall in his figures comfortably IMHO.

They could have reached the SPL with £15/20m in reserve and still walked all 3 divisions.

There does appear to be quite a bit missing there, so I gave up on it too.

My thoughts were similar. We should have been able to get back to the SPL without spunking huge amounts of cash on players and have a very healthy bank balance. Again, we don't know what these guys are on for certain, and I can see the bigger picture that with the transfer ban, they're building for 2 seasons, but guys like Black, Sandaza, Sheils etc are not required to win Div3 and Div2 imo.

[Double Jack D]

I'm not disagreeing, more wondering if the contracts are Division specific. £2k per week Div3, £3k Div2 up to £7k on promotion back to the SPL, for example.

I do find it amusing that folk accuse Rangers fans of believeing everything the Daily Record tells us, but in the same breath blindly accepts that we're paying someone £7k a week because the paper says so.

Don't read the record but that may have been the ultimate source of the talk on here....

What you describe may well be the case but I'm sure the likes of Black, Sandaza, Kyle and Beattie could command more than £2k a week playing at a level of football significantly higher than SFL3.

There must be some reason that they are keen to play there, £2k a week doesn't seem enough for a guy to waste the prime of their footballing life in a footballing wilderness.

Even if it is £2k a week, it is offensively excessive for the task in hand. I would rather they settled their bill with the Scottish Ambulance Service, Strathclyde Police or any number of the small firms they owed, in comparative terms, pennies to....

Oh I forgot, that was the debt of Rangers who are no more....... illegibly!

[ayrmad]

There does appear to be quite a bit missing there, so I gave up on it too.

My thoughts were similar. We should have been able to get back to the SPL without spunking huge amounts of cash on players and have a very healthy bank balance. Again, we don't know what these guys are on for certain, and I can see the bigger picture that with the transfer ban, they're building for 2 seasons, but guys like Black, Sandaza, Sheils etc are not required to win Div3 and Div2 imo.

There is a bit missing but my drivel reference was solely for The Record, SIA has at least tried to open the eyes of the public as far as doom mongering is concerned.

[Monkey Tennis]

I've given up reading that drivel.

30000 ST's, merchandising and cup gates/prize money will fill the shortfall in his figures comfortably IMHO.

You can shave £1m off his PAYE figure as well unless I'm missing something obvious.

They could have reached the SPL with £15/20m in reserve and still walked all 3 divisions.

Would costs like policing not also come down significantly? One game fewer, smaller crowds (based on the figures used) and no OF fixtures would surely allow for a reduction.

The piece makes for interesting reading in that it makes the point that the wage bill means Rangers might well lose money, when they could in fact be making lots of it. In terms of the detail though, there's a hell of a lot of guesswork involved.

[Itwiznaeme]

Partick? Aye, they're just a wee diddy team with a tiny midden they can't fill.

As a man with a soft spot for all the football clubs around the world including wee Partick Thistle who live within their means and don't cheat on their friends or rivals - i think that your comment reeks of plain stupidity. Fans who support their clubs whether the team on the park win, lose or draw are thoroughly deserving of respect. Fans who still turn up to watch the team of the club that they support week in week out after long losing sequences are thoroughly deserving of respect.

You and your fellow sheeple follow each other and supported a cheating b*****d of a football club that plays its football from a Park/Stadium that was rarely ever close to being more than half full during periods in which the team on the park have been unsuccessful for any considerable period of time. You and your fellow sheeple are the most despicable football fans in the UK. The reasons why i believe you, your fellow sheeple and your club to be despicable are numerous - During the last 10 years, rioting all over Europe, cheating for at least the last 12 years (probably 20+), refusing to pay around £140million owed to creditors, etc, etc, etc.

[ayrmad]

Would costs like policing not also come down significantly? One game fewer, smaller crowds (based on the figures used) and no OF fixtures would surely allow for a reduction.

The piece makes for interesting reading in that it makes the point that the wage bill means Rangers might well lose money, when they could in fact be making lots of it. In terms of the detail though, there's a hell of a lot of guesswork involved.

I posted a wee guesstimate to prove Newco would be really profitable in the 3rd paying £1500 a week, deleted during changeover day and couldn't be arsed trawling through the numbers again.

Some people have been doom mongering on here as well, some using turnover figures of £3/4m, crazy, I expect Newco to turnover between £15m and £20m no problem.

Edited August 9, 2012 by ayrmad

[Itwiznaeme]

How fucked up is this? McCoist appealing to fans to buy Season Tickets to avoid redundancies - presumably amongst the support staff, since the playing squad is being increased in size.

Granted the article does say that Edu and Bedoya are likely to leave, but are those two on a combined wage similar to the five (Black, Shiels, Kyle, Sandaza and Cribari) that have so far been brought in?

PS the article mentions that 20,000 season tickets have so far been sold which isnae bad for a fourth tier team I suppose.

If support staff are made redundant, McCoist will be one of those to blame for those redundancies due to McCoist's mismanagement - paying wages to players that the club cannot afford.

The article in full:

McCoist moving closer to Green

http://www.heraldsco...-green.18412304

Ally McCoist yesterday praised Charles Green's work ethic and urged Rangers supporters to buy season tickets to protect the club's infrastructure and prevent redundancies.

It was McCoist's first significant statement of support for the Ibrox chief executive, but also an indication that the investment Green had promised Rangers fans has not yet materialised.

Around 20,000 supporters are thought to have renewed their season tickets, and the deadline was moved back to Friday following last Tuesday night's 4-0 win over East Fife in the League Cup, which attracted almost 40,000 fans to Ibrox.

Many supporters remain wary of the intentions of Green and his directors, since they refuse to reveal who owns the club, and were planning to buy tickets on a match-per-match basis, but may now be persuaded by McCoist's statement.

"The maths would indicate that if not enough season-ticket money is sold then it's going to be difficult to keep the infrastructure in place," McCoist said. "I've been told in discussions that a greater return on season tickets would go towards nullifying any redundancies and that would be the ideal start to the season for me."

Green had promised to deliver £30m in investment before the end of July, but has so far only secured £1m from Craig Mather, the Nottingham businessman, for a 10% shareholding. Mike Ashley is believed to be on the verge of agreeing a deal involving his Sports Direct selling Rangers' replica kits, but also to take a 9% stake in the club, but that deal is not yet completed.

Like supporters, McCoist has not been told who owns Rangers, with Green claiming the investors wish to remain anonymous. However, he believes the chief executive has shown his commitment to the club with his work ethic during a fraught summer.

"I have been told by Charles, Imran [Ahmad, the managing director], Brian [stockbridge, the finance director] and Malcolm [Murray, the chairman] that they are positive they will get investors for the long-term future of the club. There's a great belief investment will be found sooner rather than later. I won't say I know all the ins and outs of contracts and who owns what. I'd be very surprised if many managers did because it's not their remit. But I've seen enough in recent weeks to say enough is enough and let's get everyone on board and moving forward.

"Myself and Charles are still very early in our relationship and everybody has to appreciate that. Like all of us, he'll make mistakes and do things well, but I've been impressed by his willingness to fight the corner for the club and the supporters no matter the hour of the day. He's been a good ally to have when I've been in one or two of these meetings. There's been a lot of talk, a lot of questions asked and that will continue to happen, but if Princess Di or Mother Theresa had bought the club I would still have been sceptical, that's just how damaged we were after the last 10 or 11 months. Respect and trust has to be earned by anybody."

McCoist also revealed that the deal to sign Craig Beattie has stalled and expects Maurice Edu and Alejandro Bedoya, the American midfielders, to leave Ibrox in the near future.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Itwiznaeme

[Monkey Tennis]

What complicates it though is setting the expensive signings against the projected crowd figures.

You have to assume that guys like Sandaza wouldn't drop so many divisions unless it was going to be extremely worthwhile financially. Similarly, it's probably reasonable to assume that the crowd figure the other night, which is used here for projections for the season, would not have been as high, had these signings not been made.

I agree that they don't need to be spending as much to win the leagues, but I think that Green feels that they do in order to attract big crowds. He's maybe right - remember Rangers fans think they deserve players of a certain standard.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Monkey Tennis

[Itwiznaeme]

They may well not yet survive.

BDO can challenge the undervaluation of the assets, which can then be recovered and put to auction.

Some of Greens backers are housing developers.

Green is spending money on wages which is almost impossible to justify outside the SPL and is gambling on being in a restructured SPL 2, but I cannot see the current 12 clubs agreeing to dilute their income and spread it among another 12 clubs just to save SEVCO. Although the twelve may gain from SEVCO returning quickly to the spl one season early, they would forever have to face the ongoing season after season dilution of their income.

SEVCO will probably not be allowed to use the nomenclature rangers or anything approaching it, if the Insolvency Act is enforced properly.

Assets such as Ibrox, MP, the club's branding and good will have all been grossly undervalued. Even Green has been daft enough to come out and claim the club is worth £50million. BDO will do their job.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Itwiznaeme

[ayrmad]

What complicates it though is setting the expensive signings against the projected crowd figures.

You have to assume that guys like Sandaza wouldn't drop so many divisions unless it was going to be extremely worthwhile financially. Similarly, it's probably reasonable to assume that the crowd the other night, which is used here for projections for the season, would not have been as high, had these signings not been made.

I agree that they don't need to be spending as much to win the leagues, but I think that Green feels that they do in order to attract big crowds. He's maybe right - remember Rangers fans think they deserve players of a certain standard.

That could actually bite his arse, if the games are too easy folk will stop going, it should be more of a balancing act than what's happening at the moment.

[Itwiznaeme]

Thought this was ironic.

Going bust on their centenary of being an official Glasgow team.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...w-west-19168940

Indeed this would have been Centenary Year for "Rangers FC" as a Glasgow club due to them only becoming a Glasgow club on the 7 August 1912 - Tuesday this week would have been their 100th birthday as a Glasgow club.

[KnightswoodBear]

Have any of "itwiznaeme"'s 700 odd posts been about anything other than Rangers?

Scotland, for example?