Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[PeeTeeJag]

CG saying last night that the deadline to buy season tickets (yesterday) has been extended to friday because the ticket office had so much work to do for the east fife game that they couldn't process all the applications of which 5000 are still pending.

So the stadium last night had a quarter of its seats empty and only 25000 fans have bought season tickets? Didn't they have 38000 season ticket holders a couple of years ago???

Ahhhh all is rosy in the garden of Ibrokes

[PeeTeeJag]

Chico's love-in with CG and Sally

Above is the podcast and interview from last night's game.

Notable points are...........

Chic still wanking off at Ibrokes.

CG being asked how he can finance players coming in, but only says that the manager wants new players, so he is bringing them in, but doesn't mention how he can afford it. And Chico doesn't ask him to answer the question put to him.

CG talking about a fans share issue shortly as well as stock brokers being at the game who may be potential investors.

CG being asked what his view is on the EBTs.."eh, same as David Murray's"

Chic asking CG if he is positively sure there were only 38000 at the game, and replying, "Eh, no. But there was a fox."

Followed up by Chic being on his knees in front of Sally and begging for a facial.

[strichener]

Chico's love-in with CG and Sally

Above is the podcast and interview from last night's game.

Notable points are...........

Chic still wanking off at Ibrokes.

CG being asked how he can finance players coming in, but only says that the manager wants new players, so he is bringing them in, but doesn't mention how he can afford it. And Chico doesn't ask him to answer the question put to him.

CG talking about a fans share issue shortly as well as stock brokers being at the game who may be potential investors.

CG being asked what his view is on the EBTs.."eh, same as David Murray's"

Chic asking CG if he is positively sure there were only 38000 at the game, and replying, "Eh, no. But there was a fox."

Followed up by Chic being on his knees in front of Sally and begging for a facial.

Aye, he wants £6m+ out of one as well!!!!

[~~~]

So whats the excuse for the empty seats last night from Sevco? I thought they didnt do walking away.

[WeeHectorPar]

So whats the excuse for the empty seats last night from Sevco? I thought they didnt do walking away.

There were no empty seats last night. 38,000 paid to get in, the other 14,000 or whatever were those who refused to leave Ibrox at the end of last season. They really don't do walking away.

[Phantom Bud]

Rangers Tax Case has come out of retirement:

Digging The Hole Ever Deeper

08/08/2012

49 Votes

This week has seen strident denials from David Murray that Rangers have done anything wrong in paying 83 employees through the Murray Group Management Remuneration Trust (MGMRT). According to Murray: “No rules were breached or circumvented, and I reject and resent any suggestion that anything was done which amounted to cheating.” This blog-post will provide an illustrative example that demonstrates just how absurdly untrue Murray’s claim really is.

First a quick recap of the rules. For the MGMRT, an Employee Benefit Trust (EBT), to be operated legally for tax purposes, money is deposited in the trust by the employer. Thereafter, the employer must have no control or involvement in the disbursement of funds. Employees can then apply to the trust for loans. The loans must be discretionary i.e. contractual obligations or wages (of any kind) cannot be paid tax-free through an EBT. Any payment through an EBT for wages or other contractual obligations would be liable to tax. Paying wages or other obligations through an EBT without deducting PAYE & National Insurance is a breach of UK tax law and is illegal. HMRC has investigated Rangers’ use of the MGMRT EBT and found it to be a sham designed to avoid due PAYE & NIC. The Rangers FC plc (In Administration) appealed this determination and this appeal was heard by the now infamous First Tier Tribunal (Tax). Rangers FC (the oldco) was able to pay higher wages to sign and retain better quality players during the decade in which the scheme operated. In fact, had Rangers paid staff the same take home wage, the club would have had to find an extra £49m to pay tax on these wages legally. This much we have discussed many times.

The next rule in question is that of the Scottish Premier League (SPL). The SPL requires that all payments to registered players are declared in the contractual documents submitted to the league (and to the SFA). The combination of illegally using an EBT scheme to obtain a £49m advantage in paying for players and violating SPL rules on declaring payments to players is premeditated financial doping. The reason for not declaring the EBT payments in player contracts is that doing so would have caused the EBT scheme to fail immediately. Players and their agents are no fools and wisely would not trust the nods and winks of the shifty wide-boy types attracted to football club ownership. They insisted that promised payments were documented. These additional documents- side-letters, second-contracts… call them what you will- blow Rangers’ and Murray’s claims of innocence out of the water.

In a previous post, this blog attempted to help the SPL’s investigation team to establish a prima facie case against Rangers. Obviously, we have no way of knowing if this was helpful in moving this case along, but it might help the media and anyone investigating the case against Rangers if we provide a road-map to just one example of what really happened. Please note that this example has been selected for its clarity rather than the importance of the player. Many of the cases, especially the earlier ones when Rangers tended to be more concerned with obscuring their actions, are quite complex. The SPL’s investigators should ensure that they see the documentation referenced below.

Gavin Rae signed a three and a half-year contract with Rangers on 1 January 2004. This contract- the official one filed with the SFA & SPL- lists an annual wage of £260,000. Curiously, the contract does not mention appearance money or bonuses. On the very same day, 1 January 2004, Rangers provided Gavin Rae with a letter that said that money would be deposited in a sub-trust of the Murray Group Management Remuneration Trust on his behalf. These amounts total £336,000. The letter also said that Rae would receive £1,000 as an appearance fee for every competitive first-team game played. From February 2004 to July 2007, Rae received five payments totalling £336,000. He also received the following amounts through the EBT for appearances: £11,000 (2003/04); £8,000 (2005/06); £20,000 (2006/07). The appearance money matches his first team appearances for Rangers.

This side letter torpedoes the argument that these payments were not contractual. (A simple guide to contract formation under Scots Law can be found here. Short version: these letters constitute a contract under Scots Law). This letter, and the others like it, demonstrate that Rangers used the EBT scheme to pay wages (appearance money) and contractual obligations related to employment. This is just one fragment of the masses of evidence that demonstrate that Rangers were “at it”.

The task for the SPL’s investigators is simple in this case. Obtain Gavin Rae’s contract as submitted to the SFA & SPL. Next, they should demand to see Gavin Rae’s side letter. After that, the task is to review the actual payments. There will be a match between promises and payments. Repeat for each of the 82 other employees of Rangers FC (now In Administration) who benefited from the trust scheme.

The current PR campaign from Murray, and other senior Rangers’ personnel who were beneficiaries of the EBT scheme, is designed to reverse any sense of inevitability regarding amending the sporting record to reflect the cheating that took place between 2001-2011. All Scottish football fans- Rangers fans included- were cheated during these years. Do not believe the spin and dissembling from those who did most to damage Rangers FC and Scottish football.

[PeeTeeJag]

Oh and while we are at it, remember how the media, CG and Sally are all saying what an amazing turnout it was for the first game of the season and how all the rangers fans are showing how loyal they are to the team?........

Last season, first game of the campaign, at home to Hearts...........49083

2010/11 Killie 45739

2009/10 Falkirk 50239

2008/09 Hearts 48191

2007/08 St Mirren 47772

2006/07 Dundee Utd 50394

2005/06 Livingston 49613

And on and on and on...........

Soooooooooo according to official reports from Ibrokes the fans are soooooooo loyal to SevCo and are all behind the team that only 38000 managed to make it along to Govan and pay less than they normally have to show how much the team means to them.

It's the lowest attendance for a first game of the season at Ibrokes for years and years. And it's only going to get smaller.

Ofcourse I could be wrong, and it could have been an almost full house.

[pozbaird]

All joking aside - I can understand the Sevco supporters desire to turn out and give the world a right big GIRFUY. I can understand them lapping up all these quality signings, and watching their new club sweep all opponents aside. As an observer of this saga though, doesn't it strike any Sevco supporters that it looks like a mirror image of the Murray years? Bigger name signings than really should have been made? Rangers, like Sevco, being bullish and triumphalist.....but not giving a fcuk where the money is coming from?

Sevco fans should be querying this, and screaming from the rooftops for proof that it is all legit, affordable, and sustainable... but they won't. They just want to be bullish, triumphalist, and to get it right fcuking up everyone else who is 'against them' - without giving a fcuk about the finances.

Portsmouth. That is all.

Edited August 8, 2012 by pozbaird

[Itwiznaeme]

No, I admire Sevco fans. The punishment they've taken, the knocks. The loss of so many players, and the five stars on the shirt, with the titles and cups to follow. To turn out in such numbers to see their new club's first home match is admirable. To hand over cash at the turnstiles to prop the club up for another week is admirable. To swallow hook, line, and sinker, the rhetoric of the latest shyster to replace the last shyster, who replaced the shyster before that is a stunning show of support. To hand over your hard-earned while shoving your head in the world's biggest bucket of sand for the third time in a decade is fcuking astounding. Fair do's and all that.

I doubt that anyone could have put the feelings of the vast majority of genuine honest and true supporters of Scottish football clubs and Scotland in general into finer words than you have in that post pozbaird.

Those who continue to agree with the recent statements made by McCoist, Jardine, Smith, Murray and all the other trumpets of Ibrox who blame everyone and/or anyone other than those at Ibrox for the fate of the soon-to-be liquidated RFC are entitled to no sympathy whatsoever. Murray, Whyte and Green are all shysters. No genuine, honest and true individuals can deny that fact.

Shyster: direputeable, unethical, or unscrupulous, especially in the practice of law, politics or business."

Any individuals or groups who financially support a football club that is run by proven shysters deserve no sympathy at all from supporters of other clubs or anyone else for that matter.

[Homer Thompson]

SFL clubs voted at their AGM in May to allow 2 triallists to be fielded in R1 of the Challenge Cup... not sure if also the League Cup, or not... as it's held before the league season commences. Tbh, it's a development I don't particularly agree with, but perfectly above board.

No, they werent allowed in the League Cup. We played Young and Lyle as trialists in the Challenge Cup but both had to be signed to play in the LC

[~~~]

My mate was at the game and says there were a few empty seats and took a photo to prove it...........

Was that not taken during the Dundee United game before they went into admin last season?

Well done McCoist, Managed to win another cup game, things are looking up.

[Fasda]

Gavin Rae signed a three and a half-year contract with Rangers on 1 January 2004. This contract- the official one filed with the SFA & SPL- lists an annual wage of £260,000. Curiously, the contract does not mention appearance money or bonuses. On the very same day, 1 January 2004, Rangers provided Gavin Rae with a letter that said that money would be deposited in a sub-trust of the Murray Group Management Remuneration Trust on his behalf. These amounts total £336,000. The letter also said that Rae would receive £1,000 as an appearance fee for every competitive first-team game played. From February 2004 to July 2007, Rae received five payments totalling £336,000. He also received the following amounts through the EBT for appearances: £11,000 (2003/04); £8,000 (2005/06); £20,000 (2006/07). The appearance money matches his first team appearances for Rangers.

I make that £1,155,000 over 3 seasons for Rae and that's equivalent to about £1,500,000 if he'd been taxed on the EBT's. If you ever have any doubt that the cheating bast*rds gained an advantage then remember this is what they paid to secure a middling pool player (even given that he'll do a job for us all the same!). How do we compete with 10k a week for a pool player with 39 appearances in 3 seasons?

[PeeTeeJag]

All joking aside - I can understand the Sevco supporters desire to turn out and give the world a right big GIRFUY. I can understand them lapping up all these quality signings, and watching their new club sweep all opponents aside. As an observer of this saga though, doesn't it strike any Sevco supporters that it looks like a mirror image of the Murray years? Bigger name signings than really should have been made? Rangers, like Sevco, being bullish and triumphalist.....but not giving a fcuk where the money is coming from?

Sevco fans should be querying this, and screaming from the rooftops for proof that it is all legit, affordable, and sustainable... but they won't. They just want to be bullish, triumphalist, and to get it right fcuking up everyone else who is 'against them' - without giving a fcuk about the finances.

Portsmouth. That is all.

The SevCo fans have never cared about what goes on behind the scenes, just as long as they get results on the park.

The money could come from stealing kiddies piggy banks and the Orcs wouldn't give a damn.

But what we are hearing now from Green is vaguely familiar to the Murray and Whyte eras. He is bringing players in and betting that the fans will buy season tickets in their tens of thousands and that investors will spunk money into the club. Remember how the club bet everything last season on getting into the Champions League? Same deal this season on a smaller scale.

Green is probably already aware what will happen when the EBT scandal is finally dealt with. He knows that titles and cups will be lost at the very least, and he is hoping this will galvanise the fans to punt a ton of money into the club via share issues and season tickets. BUT, Sir Dave already tried this when the club were riding high in the SPL and it was a disaster that he had to bail out, but this time the bail out money just isn't there.

Green can't lose in this. He either wins his gamble and saves the club and sells a few years down the line when they are in the SPL, or it goes tits up and he sells to Watty, Brown or some other idiot that is desperate to hang on to whatever is left. Even buying in these players can make him money. If Sandaza fires in 20 goals by xmas, don't be surprised if another club comes in for him and SevCo are wanting a £1million.

Sally meanwhile is fully aware that he is only in the job because Green doesn't need the hassle of sacking him. Yet. Green is giving Sally everything he wants and will now sit back and wait for the tubby one to sink or swim. If he does well then Green got him the players to do the job. If he fails, then Green did all he could to help Sally, but he wasn't good enough, and the fans, just like last year, will call for Sally's head. Green, if he is still there, will then bring in the Cardigan or some other "legend" to again be a buffer between himself and the fans.

Even the fact that not one of these "legends" did enough to buy the club instead of Green hasn't made the Orcs wonder what is going on. FFS an American was ridden out of town for even suggesting that the club need multi millions to get it out of the black hole it was in, yet not one of them asked "Black hole, what black hole?". They were just waiting for the next "wan o' us" to turn up, tell them everything is fine, and he'll save the club.

This maybe a wee bit extreme but it's a bit like Germany during the war. The Germans weren't all nazis but they believed Hitler when he said he would make Germany strong again. They never asked how he would do it, but just let him get on with it. Even nearing the end of the war he was still saying everything was going well but that the German people needed to put more into the effort if Germany was going to succeed. So they did. He would tell them that whatever they were hearing about how the war was going was just propaganda by the enemy and not to be listened to. He developed a siege mentality amongst the country. But to onlookers the cracks were becoming obvious. Only after the war did it become clear how fucked up the country had become.

What is happening at Ibrokes is that the club and it's officials and fans are developing a siege mentality. And not a healthy one. They see every criticism of the club, officials, players and fans as coming from an enemy.

That is what will eventually bring the club down. And they will have no one to blame but themselves.

[MEADOWXI]

About Portsmouth;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19163578

Substitute McCulloch for Ben Haim and Friday 10th August 2012 for Friday 9th August 2013 and this is what I see Chas Green leading 'insert preferred name' towards.

[cowdenbeath]

Can Someone Explain How Rangers FC Fielded Trialists in a Cup Match?

I know it has been mentioned - but I have not seen any convincing answers yet.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/08/08/can-someone-explain-how-rangers-fc-fielded-trialists-in-a-cup-match/

I was down south on holiday at the time of the Brechin game and was surprised when I seen it metioned on SSN about them being able to list trialists v Brechin.

However when I returned I found out that this season you are allowed to play trialists in the first round only of the Ramsdens Cup. Alloa also had a trialist (Blair Munn) listed v Cowden and QOS also listed trialists in their game against Dumbarton.

[~~~]

Not heard from John Brown in a while, did he finally get to see they title deeds?

“@johnbomberbrown: SFA won't allow RFC to go to DIV 3. They will form an SPL 2.

I URGE RANGERS TO SAY NO TO SANCTIONS!!!”

[FinnesTON]

All joking aside - I can understand the Sevco supporters desire to turn out and give the world a right big GIRFUY. I can understand them lapping up all these quality signings, and watching their new club sweep all opponents aside. As an observer of this saga though, doesn't it strike any Sevco supporters that it looks like a mirror image of the Murray years? Bigger name signings than really should have been made? Rangers, like Sevco, being bullish and triumphalist.....but not giving a fcuk where the money is coming from?

Sevco fans should be querying this, and screaming from the rooftops for proof that it is all legit, affordable, and sustainable... but they won't. They just want to be bullish, triumphalist, and to get it right fcuking up everyone else who is 'against them' - without giving a fcuk about the finances.

Portsmouth. That is all.

Really no one should have been under the illusion this scenario would be played out any differently. The idea Sevco supporters would entertain a group of young players gelling in the 3rd was fantasy stuff , these supporters are weaned on the instant the buy big the all fur coat and no knickers mentality, I bet if you asked the majority about the Murray era, they'd live it out again even if it jeopardised the clubs existence.

They have to wipe every record created by the diddy teams in the lower divisions to show their dominance, the fact that the spent beyond any other team outwith Celtic in Scotland will not register. Their fans will lap this up as this is all they ever wanted guaranteed wins against mismatched opposition, isin't that the reason for the EBT's , they cannot accept the possibility of defeat , they must win, entrenched by attitudes of superiority, fear and hatred.

So sit back and watch them financially implode yet again, its easy to hate them and their vile intolerances but most are simple creatures fed helpings of "what is it you want to hear". The only thing i can advocate to all us diddy team supporters is patience as the return of the headline signings with wages beyond their finances will be another calamity to come. When the full scale of the EBT's and dual contracts are known I am sure sponsors will be reluctant to sully their name with the tainted brand.

They have accomplished their easiest task getting the mindless to believe everything will carry on as before, the human mackerel are biting but keeping them interested will be a more difficult task. The cup games against the SPL sides and any defeat will be interesting to view.

So title by christmas, record goals scored but then what ?

[craigkillie]

Can Someone Explain How Rangers FC Fielded Trialists in a Cup Match?

I know it has been mentioned - but I have not seen any convincing answers yet.

http://scotslawthoug...in-a-cup-match/

The rules were changed in May to allow trialists in the 1st Round of the Challenge Cup.

[The Master]

They're coming for us. OH NOES!!!

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=234491

[BinoBalls]

Not heard from John Brown in a while, did he finally get to see they title deeds?

“@johnbomberbrown: SFA won't allow RFC to go to DIV 3. They will form an SPL 2.

I URGE RANGERS TO SAY NO TO SANCTIONS!!!”

3 weeks since he's tweeted anything.

Silly bugger has probably forgotten his twitter login. Genuinely wouldn't surprise me.