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Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!


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Can nobody be arsed to use Wikipedia around here?

The year 2001 heralded major changes for Fiorentina, as the terrible state of the club's finances was revealed: they were unable to pay wages and had debts of around USD 50 million. The club's owner, Vittorio Cecchi Gori, was able to raise some more money, but even this soon proved to be insufficient resources to sustain the club. Fiorentina were relegated at the end of the 2001–02 season and went into judicially controlled administration in June 2002. This form of bankruptcy (sports companies cannot exactly fail in this way in Italy, but they can suffer a similar procedure) meant that the club was refused a place in Serie B for the 2002–03 season, and as a result effectively ceased to exist.

Della Valle era

The club was promptly re-established in August 2002 as Associazione Calcio Fiorentina e Florentia Viola with shoe and leather entrepreneur Diego Della Valle as new owner, and was admitted into Serie C2, the fourth tier of Italian football. The only player to remain at the club in its new incarnation was Angelo Di Livio, whose commitment to club's cause further endeared him to the fans. Helped by Di Livio and 30-goal striker Christian Riganò, the club won its Serie C2 group with considerable ease, which would normally have led to a promotion to Serie C1. However, due to the bizarre Caso Catania (Catania Case) the club skipped Serie C1 and was admitted into Serie B, something that was only made possible by the Italian Football Federation's decision to resolve the Catania situation by increasing the number of teams in Serie B from 20 to 24 and promoting Fiorentina for "sports merits."[5] In the 2003 off-season, the club also bought back the right to use the Fiorentina name and the famous shirt design, and re-incorporated itself as ACF Fiorentina.

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It's interesting that Channel 4's Alex Thomson (who is much fawned over by many on here) has today named the members of the tax tribunal dealing with Rangers' EBT case. Personally, it doesn't bother me but perhaps some feel he should be subject to severe criticism. 8)

Or it could be that Thomson was just repeating something that was a matter of public record. I doubt if the members of the tax tribunal are going to be subject to personal threats and abuse. Unless you know something we don't...............

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Or it could be that Thomson was just repeating something that was a matter of public record. I doubt if the members of the tax tribunal are going to be subject to personal threats and abuse. Unless you know something we don't...............

I can't imagine any rangers fans making threats against the tax tribuneral.

I mean I know there have been noises on follow follow about rising up against those who have wronged them and I know they have recently issued the odd death threat to lawyers mp's and spl managers and posted the odd bomb and bullet Here and there but I can't imagine they would extend that into making threats

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Its quite funny that the fans are only getting a 30% reduction in season ticket money, they are being royally raped for the third division, they get a game less to start with, the cheapest ticket is still dearer than a lot of SPL clubs season tickets.

I know they talk of packing Ibrox out every week but It wouldnt surprise me if they are lucky to get 15,000 most weeks, especially at those prices.

They are also trying to hijack Amy McDonalds scotland song Pride, suggesting its about Rangers and not about Scotland despite it being quite public what its about, people see what they want to see.

Edited by MarreZ
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Well they can put however many stars on their shirt as they like. There is no shirt design protocol and no body that awards stars or anything like that.

The SFA are engaged in the negotiations to transfer the membership, they want the club to continue because they want to issue their sanctions. They can't give Sevco a new membership and expect to place sanctions on it.

Example. I buy your car from your estate because you got caught drink driving and topped yourself. I wouldn't have to take on the penalty points, ban or jail sentence just because I bought your car.

(In this case Ibrox and Murray Park are the Car)

If I was also to buy your corpse and re-animate it to be my chauffeur then that sums up where we are now.

As far as I know that's not correct. I'm pretty sure I read some where that they had to petition (UEFA I think) for permission to add those stars - presumable precisely because they were NOT just part of a design, but signifying previously won honours.

As for the rest of your post, worst analogy I've heard in a while :D

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I know they talk of packing Ibrox out every week but It wouldnt surprise me if they are lucky to get 15,000 most weeks, especially at those prices.

Of course that's what will happen, their fans are 90% gloryhunters and bigots. All they care about is either seeing their team win or having a right good sing song.

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My linkMy linkAllan McGregor way to Besiktas

Beşiktaş have completed the transfers of Allan McGregor and Julien Escude.

Both McGregor and Escude join the Black eagles on a free transfer and both players have signed 2 year contracts with the Istanbul giants.

ex-Rangers goalkeeper Allan McGregor will receive €1.2 million per season, while Julien Escude contract details are yet to be disclosed.

The experienced keeper spent six seasons at Rangers and has 21 Scotland international caps.

Edited by Umbungo1874
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I'm getting increasingly confused as to why people are taking about the legal status of buying and selling history. Surely this is prettymuch irrelevant to the situation.

"Keeping their history" and "being the same club" isn't really a legal concept, ultimately, it's a footballing concept.

What is relevant to the situation is a judgement in football's eyes. As a legal entity there are 2 Rangers, the old one and the new one, but in football's eyes there may be 1 Rangers (owing to the single SFA membership and the need for a continuity of punishment and liability for offending). This is where the debate lies.

Personally, I don't see how it can be a different club if it's got the same membership, and is held responsible for historical misdemeanours.

Others hold a different view.

But it's footballing, not legal.

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I see Jim McLeans Ghost has reappeared after a few weeks of getting his arse kicked on this thread by all and sundry.

<<waves to ghostie>>

His disappearance and reappearance at the same time as TSAR has sparked rumours they were on a cruise together easing each others troubled minds. In good old Fat Sally tradition I demand clarity of this.

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I'm getting increasingly confused as to why people are taking about the legal status of buying and selling history. Surely this is prettymuch irrelevant to the situation.

"Keeping their history" and "being the same club" isn't really a legal concept, ultimately, it's a footballing concept.

What is relevant to the situation is a judgement in football's eyes. As a legal entity there are 2 Rangers, the old one and the new one, but in football's eyes there may be 1 Rangers (owing to the single SFA membership and the need for a continuity of punishment and liability for offending). This is where the debate lies.

Personally, I don't see how it can be a different club if it's got the same membership, and is held responsible for historical misdemeanours.

Others hold a different view.

But it's footballing, not legal.

How many trophies have The Rangers Football Club (Sevco Scotland 5088, formed 2012) won?

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I'm getting increasingly confused as to why people are taking about the legal status of buying and selling history. Surely this is prettymuch irrelevant to the situation.

"Keeping their history" and "being the same club" isn't really a legal concept, ultimately, it's a footballing concept.

What is relevant to the situation is a judgement in football's eyes. As a legal entity there are 2 Rangers, the old one and the new one, but in football's eyes there may be 1 Rangers (owing to the single SFA membership and the need for a continuity of punishment and liability for offending). This is where the debate lies.

Personally, I don't see how it can be a different club if it's got the same membership, and is held responsible for historical misdemeanours.

Others hold a different view.

But it's footballing, not legal.

Apologies if repeating others, but are we (or others) not making it more complicated than it is.

If old Rangers equals new Rangers then they accept all punishments including EBT related ones.

If old Rangers does not equal new Rangers they can't claim their history or ask for transference of SFA membership.

Have I just repeated what you have said in a different way?

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Scots law has never recognised 'history' as an incorporeal moveable property.

Like I said, if I purchased the 'history' of Rangers FC (IA), would that mean that it was fans of me who had wrecked Barcelona, rioted in Manchester etc. ?

Could, for example, Aberdeen FC 'purchase' the history from AC Milan, and claim to have won umpteen Serie A titles, despite never having played in it?

Nonsensical idea.

IF, history can be bought, it seems, from what I've read, that the fans of Newco believe that the "history"

can only really be bought by the club trying to assume the former club's mantle.

I don't see why that should be the case, as you have pointed out.

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I don't care if they inherit the oldcos history or not. But I am extremely perplexed about all of the hullabaloo prior to liquidation. Banners about "no to newco", Sending Bill Miller packing, Charles Green stating on radio that the "history goes" if the CVA isn't agreed and the actual bother of arranging a CVA at all.

Why all that fuss if they just keep the history after liquidating anyway? What was the point?

BTW, how many trophies did third lanark win? Can I buy their history trophy wins and transfer them to the Saintees? Thats how it works right?

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Apologies if repeating others, but are we (or others) not making it more complicated than it is.

If old Rangers equals new Rangers then they accept all punishments including EBT related ones.

If old Rangers does not equal new Rangers they can't claim their history or ask for transference of SFA membership.

Have I just repeated what you have said in a different way?

I think so, yes, certainly my view would be they can't pick-n-choose what to keep... one membership and keeping the history means "the same club", but that includes keeping the bad history, including EBTs.

I don't care if they inherit the oldcos history or not. But I am extremely perplexed about all of the hullabaloo prior to liquidation. Banners about "no to newco", Sending Bill Miller packing, Charles Green stating on radio that the "history goes" if the CVA isn't agreed and the actual bother of arranging a CVA at all.

Why all that fuss if they just keep the history after liquidating anyway? What was the point?

Well my recollection is that people's expectation of a liquidation event was them clearing the slate to "start afresh", i.e. applying for a new SFA membership, which prettymuch undeniably means a new club.

BTW, how many trophies did third lanark win? Can I buy their history trophy wins and transfer them to the Saintees? Thats how it works right?

Well, no, that's not how anyone engaging in a discussion above a fairly purile level is suggesting it works, IMO. And for starters Third Lanark's SFA membership ceased to exist so what would you buy?

Edited by HibeeJibee
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IF, history can be bought, it seems, from what I've read, that the fans of Newco believe that the "history"

can only really be bought by the club trying to assume the former club's mantle.

I don't see why that should be the case, as you have pointed out.

The marker for 'preserving history' has changed so many times it's difficult to keep track of.

First of all it was 'agreeing a CVA lets us keep our history', which would actually have been correct.

Then it was 'Once the SPL share transfers to us, we keep our history.'

Now it's 'If we transfer the SFA membership, we keep our history'.

If the SFA membership doesn't get transferred to the new club, we can expect some new line of nonsense along the lines of "aye, but as long as we play at Ibrox, we keep our history".

Some people are just living in denial that their club is snuffed.

It's quite worrying, if people were to walk around claiming that Third Lanark still existed and played football, they'd get sectioned.

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Not sure about that. But history is an intangible asset. Goodwill (the business type) is another. These can be purchased.

I would agree to some of that in the context of a solvent reconstruction or a takeover. This isn't either.

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As far as I know that's not correct. I'm pretty sure I read some where that they had to petition (UEFA I think) for permission to add those stars - presumable precisely because they were NOT just part of a design, but signifying previously won honours.

As for the rest of your post, worst analogy I've heard in a while :D

Man City have stars on their badge for phuck all.

Who actually cares what they put on their badge?

Edited by Derry O'Driscoll
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