Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Kyle]

So Jimbo Goodwin is demanding that Rangers be placed in the 1st division, the guy has a bloody cheek.

Will nobody think of the sporting integrity? WE MUST UPHOLD THE INTEGRITY AT ALL COSTS!!!!

I agree Bennett.

Glad to see you're on board.

[strichener]

New rules required for administration -

Instead of a miserly 10 point deduction, it should be based on a number equal to the total points available in the league and therefore guarantee relegation in the year that administration was entered.

[Chateau Lafite]

That's a pity because I'm sure if it wasn't for the newco comments you would be cheering and applauding him as a successful SPL manager who has led the team to win the Scottish cup, achieve high placed league positions, led us into Europe........

Ehh no!! There is a certain rivalry that exists and I haven't often applauded Utd employees. I did collectively applaud them at Tannadice against Barcelona in 1966 but I was a wee boy then. I from time to time applauded David Narey as he was one if two world class players Ive seen in our two teams - cannigia was the other But Im afraid the respect i had for Houston in the achievements you list had evaporated with his wanting new Gers so that he can get more money on his contract. No boos it will be!!

Ps this pish should be on the Dundee Derby Forum!

[wunfellaff]

[/url]

RM twats trying to see the bright side

CanadianBacon, on 12 July 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

It will be a day ending in 'y'.

Why?

I don't know.

It's the 'Insanity Clause'.

(Cries of "But there is no Santa Clause")

Marx Brothers Loyal

Love the Marx bros. If Groucho was in charge all this shit would be sorted or at least funnier

Why no, I don't think it could be any funnier

[old school]

Goodwin what a fcukwit

[Broccoli Dog]

I wish Goodwin was on Twitter so I could send him abuse directly rather than just on an internet forum.

[Guest Pampered Adolescent]

Only a fool would predict that at this stage given how quickly things can and have changed over the past few weeks and months. I would hope not but with no confidence you are dealing with some of the slimiest, morally (and financially) bankrupt characters in Scottish football that actually set up the abomination that is the SPL in the first place.

Simple questions in return. Who employs Neil Doncaster and pays his wages? Do you honestly think what he is attempting to engineer with Regan is not at the behest of the Chairmen of the SPL clubs?

Contest this [bold] big style. The SPL was set up in 1997. Cockwomble and Regan were nowhere near the scene of the crime at the time. Longmuir- I don't know, but doubt it. He's not high profile enough for a China internet search engine to get me that data. He's not someone you quoted, anyway.

Be clear, these recent days are making me anxious, too. It's not a reason to post things in public that are plainly, untrue.....

Regards

PA

[bennett]

I agree Bennett.

Glad to see you're on board.

Always have been K, this should have been the easiest thing in the world to sort out.

Liquidation = apply to join SFL 3, only in Scotland could it turn in to such a farce.

[Florentine_Pogen]

I'll no doubt get flak for this huge post, especially from Obergruppensturmfuhrer WaffenThinMint but f*ck it. Below are the 3 statements produced by Clyde FC over the last 10 days. In my opinion, we the fans, owe a huge thanks to Clyde and whoever it is that is producing this information. Without them, we would not have been alerted to the level of scheming, lying, arm-twisting and corruption that is going on in our game. The MSM, Redtops and Succulents still refuse to give these statements any coverage whatsoever. If this sort of behaviour had been taking place within a govt. dept. or large public quoted company, the heads of those resposible would have been stuck on a spike weeks ago.These statements by Clyde should be enough to force a vote of No Confidence in Regan, Doncaster & Longmuir.

Club Statement: SFL Meeting

Wed, 4th Jul 2012 12:34pm

The club sent two directors to attend the meeting of the SFL clubs yesterday and they have reported back to the Board. The meeting and conversations covered the best part of 5 hours but there were only a few overarching themes.

The clear message portrayed is that Scottish Football is in a very dark place indeed and there is simply no good solution to what is now a structural problem that has gone beyond a one dimensional issue of where Rangers should play next season. No matter what happens now there is going to be enormous fallout across the Scottish game. Whether some good can be extracted from the impending mess will depend entirely on the SPL clubs, guided by the currently absent leadership of the SFA.

Neil Doncaster wanted only one thing from the meeting, to get a steer from the SFL clubs whether they would allow Rangers into SFL1. He talked the clubs through a detailed explanation of where the SPL clubs would lose £16m next season if Rangers were not entered to the top division of the SFL. This was delivered as a matter of fact, it was a "reality". It seems that most, if not all, major sponsors of the SPL have exit clauses if either of the 'Old Firm' are not within the SPL. The total figure was not new, but the detail behind the number and its impact on individual clubs in the SPL was set out clearly. There were challenges made regarding the flip side of saving the central income from sponsors and media, the obvious impact of loss of supporters to the game who have strongly voiced their intent. Supporter reaction has not been factored in, again there are realities, the SPL clubs are waiting on their Sky cheques in August and clearly that was more important. Nowhere in the presentation was account taken on the impact to the finances of clubs, and more importantly the relevance of the game, should supporters stay at home.

The consequential impact on the SFL from the presentation was that the SFL would lose its entitlement to circa £2m per annum from the Settlement Agreement put together to compensate the SFL for the SPL breakaway, this was made very clear by Neil Doncaster. He told the clubs that if the SPL didn't have the money then they could not pay the SFL. The reality however, which was clear from the detailed figures, is that the SPL, whilst losing an enormous amount of funding, would have the cash to make payment; it is just that the SPL would not meet the legal obligation to the SFL as the cash would be used to finance the SPL teams.

The undeniable statement made on behalf of the SPL is commercially understandable. The SPL would not allow £16m to flow out of their coffers, the impact would be too catastrophic for the SPL clubs to contemplate and as such the only options are that Rangers enter SFL1 or, as a less attractive backstop, a breakaway SPL2 will be formed. There is no prospect, from an SPL point of view, that SFL3 can be allowed to happen.

Neil Doncaster was delivering a very unpalatable proposition and he did it clearly and effectively, hence the representatives of Clyde Football Club understood that the only thing that mattered was the impact on SPL clubs from the loss of money from media and sponsors.

It was to the credit of every SFL club, and probably to the surprise of Neil Doncaster, that nobody asked him to improve on the £1m offer.

The SFL clubs were given a steer for themselves by Neil Doncaster, if the SFL could not tell him how they might vote, then he would expect the SPL clubs not to vote at their meeting either.

There were a few new things learned in the meeting, not least that the rules of the SFL would allow any club accepted into the SFL, by a simple majority, to be placed in any division. The rules do not state, nor imply, that they must join at the bottom tier, only custom and practice around good governance and integrity has seen teams join in the bottom tier. In addition, the attendees at the meeting were left in absolutely no doubt whatsoever by Stewart Regan that if the SPL clubs voted to allow a Newco into the SPL then it would be blocked by the SFA refusing to transfer the SFA membership. It was however caveated well enough to make it less than an absolute statement. The meeting was full of implied actions and outcomes, the use of clever language when delivering the speeches allows anyone to defend with ‘that is not what I said'. However, nobody will have left the meeting with anything other than the very clear messages being put across. Denials of the substance of the message being delivered do not assist anyone in this absolutely dreadful situation.

There will be no winners. Any level of integrity for the sport will be lost by one outcome and financial collapse, we are told, will fall upon the SPL with the other. Sadly, the SFA and SPL have decided that whilst they say they are looking for a collaborative solution, they have very clearly made sure that by their own inaction that the blame will sit with the SFL - no matter what the outcome. The Board of the SFL are being put under intolerable pressure by the other bodies looking to avoid the implications of properly applying their own governance procedures.

In summary, the SFA implication is that there will be no entry to the SPL. The SPL implication is that it therefore has to be SFL1 with a bit of restructure, or an SPL2 with the rest of the SFL cut adrift. There were no other options. Whilst Stewart Regan said that the SFA did not favour an SPL2, there was no equivalent abhorrence of that proposal as was attached to the proposal for a Newco in the SPL, leaving the implication that the door remains wide open for the SPL to secure their £16m with or without the SFL.

The Board of the club will consider the feedback from its representatives and also the outcomes of the next few days and will keep its supporters fully appraised, but in the meantime see no reason to amend any previous comment.

Club Statement: SFL Special General Meeting

Tue, 10th Jul 2012 6:17pm

The board of Clyde Football Club met last night to consider how it might approach the resolutions (see below) to be voted on at the SFL meeting on Friday 13th July. This update is to inform our owners and supporters and hopefully explain some of the complexities that face the club when carefully and objectively considering how we might vote. We hope that by being as clear as possible about the difficulties surrounding this situation that the people able to support the process act swiftly to do so.

The overwhelming reality is that we are being asked to make one of the most important decisions for Scottish Football in a vacuum devoid of factual information, that vacuum having been filled with unhelpful rhetoric and scaremongering by the chief executives of the SFA and SPL.

We therefore looked at what we were being asked to vote on, how it fitted with the principles of the sport, and what information we might need to inform a logical decision in context of the current reality.

It was clear that the resolutions marked a clear departure from all previous process and custom and practice when considering admitting a team to the SFL, albeit operating within the rules of the SFL. It was in that context which we considered the resolutions. In reality, the customary principles of sport were not at the forefront of the resolutions.

We first concluded that there was limited risk to the SFL from the 'Armageddon' theory, as depicted in the detailed presentation by Neil Doncaster and supported by Stewart Regan, which had prompted fears of cash flow loss to the SFL next season. We have obtained a copy of the Settlement Agreement signed up to by the SPL and the SFL in April 1998 - it is clear that the agreement is not ambiguous in this regard and there is no scope for the SPL to fail to meet the obligations to the SFL except by deliberately breaching the agreement. Neil Doncaster was unequivocal when he said that there would be no payment under the agreement and stressed that it was not the board of the SPL that made big decisions, it was the clubs themselves. We have concluded that it defies credibility that the SPL clubs would instruct the SPL to deliberately breach a legal agreement. To assist the SFL clubs to take decisions in the right manner then the external threat should be removed by the SPL clubs, confirming to the SFL that they have not and will not instruct the SPL to breach the Settlement Agreement.

Consideration was then given to Resolution 1 which we concluded required to be reworded to be explicit that entry was to SFL3. The reason for this is that once entered to the SFL in the manner proposed under Resolution 1, we understand that it is within the power of the Board of the SFL to place a club into any league of their choosing. We believe that, due to the intolerable pressure placed on the SFL board to date by external parties, this resolution should be explicit to avoid the Board coming under pressure from either the SFA or SPL in the event that Resolution 2 is rejected. It is also our opinion that Resolution 1 being explicit sits more appropriately with Resolution 2 which in itself is explicit about where any club might play.

In terms of Resolution 1, whether reworded or not, it seemed inconceivable to the Board of Clyde that absolutely no information whatsoever has been provided to support the resolution. This is clearly a matter of haste and again driven by an external agenda, perhaps because Sevco have not lodged an application to join the SFL then they have not submitted any information. Whilst we have accepted that this is being treated as a special case and we are willing to run with this, it simply was not possible to conclude that we could make any decision at this time. The matter is made worse because of the extent of uncertainty which hangs over Sevco. There is no need to prepare an exhaustive list of the issues as they are well publicised, however the extent of outstanding sanctions that may or may not be levied against a club which has yet to obtain SFA membership, together with the increasing number of possible commercial and legal challenges to the transactions to date simply presents a significant risk to the ability of the club to fulfil its fixtures in any league. Given that some of these matters are in the hands of the governing bodies it seems inexplicable that they are left hanging. We are clear that for the good of the game that we would want a swift and positive conclusion that would see Rangers Football Club taking part in the game again and we would wish to be able to support a Resolution that saw them entered to SFL3. However, until we receive enough information to inform such a decision then we are being pushed into a corner which would actually leave any club making a logical decision arrive at the conclusion that Resolution 1 should not be supported. The SFA could assist the process by transferring the SFA membership to Sevco prior to the Friday meeting if they have satisfied themselves of fit and proper tests and have carried out their own diligence on the viability of the club and the various legal challenges.

Resolution 2 suffers from the same issues as Resolution 1, in that no information of any sort about Sevco, not even whether it will obtain SFA membership, leaves no possibility of making a decision about entry to the SFL based on facts or logic. Clearly it is incumbent on all the governing bodies to make available all factual information they have available if they truly want this process to have any chance of being recovered from the current chaos. At the very least the business plan for Sevco and any other information that led the SPL clubs to arrive at a decision should be made available to the SFL clubs, and not with inappropriately short notice, although that point has as good as passed. Resolution 2 was where the challenge to sporting integrity arose. It was impossible to engage with this concept without continually bearing in mind that the SFA had already undermined the prospects for any integrity to be maintained by making it clear that failure to deal with the admission of a newco to SFL3 would be a dereliction of duty. In effect posting notice that no matter what decision is taken by the SFL clubs to administer their league, the SFA would not tolerate anything other than SFL 1, an equivalent point having been made by Neil Doncaster on behalf of the SPL clubs. The stated position of the SFA and SPL chief executives means that, whilst this club can have faith in David Longmuir to do all in his power to deliver a new combined structure that meets the objectives of Resolution 2, we have no faith in the parties that the new arrangements would be negotiated with. Their behaviour to date is evidence enough for us. We should not be disingenuous on our own position in terms of the question of trading sporting integrity for transformational change to the way the game is governed that is posed by Resolution 2. We have said previously that there would be no winners and that compromise would be required at some point. With this in mind, had we worked through this process and seen positive collaborative behaviour from the leaders of the SFA and SPL and we were challenged with backing Resolution 2 in exchange for revolutionary change that would truly benefit the game as a whole, then we would have engaged with that. As it stands, we have no information on the proposals other than that distributed in advance of the meeting last week and no confidence in the parties that will control the process outside of the SFL. As such we would vote no to Resolution 2.

Resolution 3, as many have pointed out this resolution seems presumptuous as no invitation has been issued from the SPL to either club. Again, this arises because of the external pressures, the haste and the failure of other bodies to complete their own processes. As things stand, whilst Sevco/Newco was not voted into the SPL, it seems that the SPL still has 12 members based on the reported voting at the SPL meeting last week, albeit one of whom is in liquidation. It seems to make more sense that the SPL complete their processes and make the appropriate invitation for a club to join the SPL. We would seek to support whichever of our member clubs are invited to join the SPL to make that move, however, at the moment there is no certainty that Sevco will be entered into the SFL and the SFL should not risk leaving itself short of a team.

In summary, the complete absence of information on Sevco Scotland Ltd renders it impossible to vote with any logic in favour of any of the Resolutions. The default in these circumstances would unfortunately be to vote against. We hope and trust that this unacceptable situation will be resolved swiftly and will allow Clyde Football Club to support Resolution 1 from an informed position and will see Rangers Football Club playing in SFL3. We see Resolution 2 as a matter of trust and it would take a change of personnel and attitude for us to be confident that David Longmuir would be entering discussions with a group of people committed to a collaborative process in a spirit of genuine partnership.

In the current circumstances our only decision could be to vote against Resolution 2. Subject to a satisfactory outcome on Resolution 1 we would support Resolution 3.

The three resolutions presented to the club are as follows:-

(i) That the Scottish Football League Members agree to admit Sevco Scotland Limited as an Associate Member and agrees to permit Rangers F.C. to play in the League during Season 2012/13.

(ii) That the Scottish Football League Members direct the Board of Management of The Scottish Football League (the “Board”) to provide that Rangers F.C. shall play in the Third Division of the Scottish Football League during Season 2012/13 unless the Board shall have to its satisfaction negotiated and reached agreement with The Scottish Premier League and The Scottish Football Association on a series of measures which the Board shall consider to be in the best interests of the game, how it is structured, how it is governed and how it is financed, whereupon the Board shall be authorised to provide that Rangers F.C. shall play in the First Division of the Scottish Football League during Season 2012/13.

(iii) That the Scottish Football League Members in terms of Rule 12 approve the resignation of either Dundee F.C. or Dunfermline Athletic F.C., whichever shall be admitted to join the Scottish Premier League for Season 2012/13, such resignation to take effect as at the date of admission of such club to the Scottish Premier League, notwithstanding that the requisite notice under Rule 12 shall not have been given.Details of the series of measures referred to at (ii) above shall be made available to the Members in advance of the meeting and an opportunity for full discussion of those measures will be given prior to the proposals being put to the meeting.

Club Statement: SFL Meeting

Thu, 12th Jul 2012 2:40pm

The Board of Clyde Football Club has received the papers in advance of tomorrows SFL meeting and will consider the Heads of Terms supplied. We continue to have the same fundamental concerns about this process, however the overriding concern is a point which we have made to the SFL.

We have received absolutely no information on the organisation Sevco Scotland Ltd whom we are being asked, and encouraged, to vote straight into the top division of the SFL under resolution 2 and possibly into SFL3 under Resolution 1. We have no business plan, list of directors, details of ownership, statement of capital adequacy or any proposals relating to the provision of any similar information in the near future. David Longmuir has clearly stated that he will distribute all the information he has got or is able to distribute.

Whilst the notion that there is a leap of faith to be taken in terms of some of the matters, there can be no leap of faith with something as fundamental as knowing who is being admitted to the league. The very fact that there is no information of any kind being made available on this company undermines the authorities efforts to direct the new entrant to SFL1. It is actually impossible for any member of the SFL to make an objective assessment of the proposals under Resolutions 1 and 2 and could be seen as irresponsible to support either proposal in such a void of information.

It is our hope that some credibility can be introduced to this process and we would ask that whoever holds information on Sevco Scotland Ltd provides a full and detailed pack to David Longmuir in order that, even at the eleventh hour, the SFL clubs are given reason to support any Resolutions that they might wish to vote on. We have to assume that the SFA and SPL hold such information otherwise they would not press so heavily for entry to SFL1.

If a leap of faith is to be taken, then in the current circumstances it will be taken blindly and the only logical outcome of taking that kind of risk would be to enter them to SFL3, where, should any subsequent issues arise, they will be contained within the lowest league rather than disrupting the top flight of the SFL.

The other matter that is entirely outside the gift of the SFL is the need for the SPL clubs to confirm that, contrary to what Neil Doncaster stated on their behalf, the SPL will meet its obligations to the SFL under the Settlement Agreement.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Florentine_Pogen

[realmadrid]

This point next week a Scottish team will be playing its first competitive game of the season and the Muppet's in charge of our game have had all summer to sort this out and they have still not worked it out.

As much as I enjoy this thread lets hope tomorrow is the start of the end of all this and we can move on.

[strichener]

I'll no doubt get flak for this huge post, especially from Obergruppensturmfuhrer WaffenThinMint but f*ck it. Below are the 3 statements produced by Clyde FC over the last 10 days. In my opinion, we the fans, owe a huge thanks to Clyde and whoever it is that is producing this information. Without them, we would not have been alerted to the level of scheming, lying, arm-twisting and corruption that is going on in our game. The MSM, Redtops and Succulents still refuse to give these statements any coverage whatsoever. If this sort of behaviour had been taking place within a govt. dept. or large public quoted company, the heads of those resposible would have been stuck on a spike weeks ago.

Holly shit, there goes my bandwidth allowance for the remainder of the year. First time I have ever had buffering on a forum!!

Edited July 12, 2012 by strichener

[pozbaird]

If Jim Goodwin was going to spout the 'must save Rangers' line - the time to do it would have been Feb 15, when Alex Salmond, David Cameron, Stuart McCall and just about everyone else were mouthing soundbites of support into the microphones shoved under their noses. Not now. Gie's a break Jim.

[Granny Danger]

Ehh no!! There is a certain rivalry that exists and I haven't often applauded Utd employees. I did collectively applaud them at Tannadice against Barcelona in 1966 but I was a wee boy then. I from time to time applauded David Narey as he was one if two world class players Ive seen in our two teams - cannigia was the other But Im afraid the respect i had for Houston in the achievements you list had evaporated with his wanting new Gers so that he can get more money on his contract. No boos it will be!!

Ps this pish should be on the Dundee Derby Forum!

Not a big fan of sarcasm then.....

[HibeeJibee]

Goodwin's point might have had a faint granule of relevance; if he hadn't said how he'll dreadfully miss playing Rangers, they were always the first games he looked out for, and other players have lost those great opportunities. Seriously? FFS.

[Guest Pampered Adolescent]

Apologies if a requote; understandable if so, in a 2700 page thread:

http://www.telegraph...FLs-demise.html

Cockwomble getting ahead of himself back in 2011 and Longmuir giving him a metaphorical slap.

I guess it's all cucumber sandwiches and G & Tees these days......?

Regards

PA

Edited July 12, 2012 by Pampered Adolescent

[Invalid Probe]

At almost every turn the wrong decision has been taken in this saga.

From EBTs, selling rangers to an asset stripper for £1, Ticketus. Then onto the administration, appointing D&P, not sacking anyone/ wage cuts, rangers STAYING IN A HOTEL TO PLAY HEARTS, contracting the asset sale for £5.5M.

When that CVA was rejected that was the biggest mistake. What should have happened was newco should have had to apply directly to the SFL for a 3rd division place. SFL would have had plenty of time to consider the proposal and even look at other applications. The SPL would have changed voting rights and TV money by now. The SFL probably would have past league restructuring by now, forcing the SPL to comply. Even newco would be in a better position, they would almost be ready for life in the 3rd (if they had been accepted) and the stench of rangers would be starting do disappear.

Instead we are now here. Muted celebration at the SPL vote, as it should never have happened. An unbelievable vote tomorrow which could see a new club leap over 20 others. Outrageous comments from the SFA and SPL, which would be funny if they weren't so damaging.

Every Scottish football fan (including sevco) could be looking forward to the season as a bright new dawn starts. Instead, all faith has been lost in the governing bodies who, along with the media have been peddling financial oblivion.

Tomorrow is another big day on deciding the fate of Scottish football. Hopefully tomorrow is the last day in the saga, hopefully we can start looking forward to football and the future. Hopefully.

[strichener]

“They have to be punished – and I’d say the same thing if it was Celtic who were involved – but do we send them to the Third Division? I’m not so sure.

“If we do that, the game could be in serious financial bother. What sells our game across the world are the Old Firm fixtures and, if we lose them for years on end, we will have lost a big selling point."

Jim Goodwin (Admitting he is a shite footballer that no-one wants to watch).

[stonedsailor]

Always have been K, this should have been the easiest thing in the world to sort out.

Liquidation = apply to join SFL 3, only in Scotland could it turn in to such a farce.

Did you not resign from these forums?

[Highlandmagyar]

At almost every turn the wrong decision has been taken in this saga.

From EBTs, selling rangers to an asset stripper for £1, Ticketus. Then onto the administration, appointing D&P, not sacking anyone/ wage cuts, rangers STAYING IN A HOTEL TO PLAY HEARTS, contracting the asset sale for £5.5M.

When that CVA was rejected that was the biggest mistake. What should have happened was newco should have had to apply directly to the SFL for a 3rd division place. SFL would have had plenty of time to consider the proposal and even look at other applications. The SPL would have changed voting rights and TV money by now. The SFL probably would have past league restructuring by now, forcing the SPL to comply. Even newco would be in a better position, they would almost be ready for life in the 3rd (if they had been accepted) and the stench of rangers would be starting do disappear.

Instead we are now here. Muted celebration at the SPL vote, as it should never have happened. An unbelievable vote tomorrow which could see a new club leap over 20 others. Outrageous comments from the SFA and SPL, which would be funny if they weren't so damaging.

Every Scottish football fan (including sevco) could be looking forward to the season as a bright new dawn starts. Instead, all faith has been lost in the governing bodies who, along with the media have been peddling financial oblivion.

Tomorrow is another big day on deciding the fate of Scottish football. Hopefully tomorrow is the last day in the saga, hopefully we can start looking forward to football and the future. Hopefully.

i dont believe closure will come tomorrow, regardless of the vote. This is going to reverberate through football for YEARS.

[Ken Fitlike]

Ahhh Jim Goodwin is a p***k!

I didn't realise he started his career at such a high level...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Goodwin