Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Lyle Lanley]

STV reporting Brechin will vote yes to Rangers in SFL 1 tomorrow.

[realmadrid]

I haven't heard one single person deny that losing one of our two biggest clubs will cause financial problems for other SPL clubs. It's a given. Dundee or Dunfermline will not bring as many visiting fans to our grounds - FACT. (Dundee derby aside).

Dundee FC would bring more fans to McDiarmid Park than Rangers do - Fact.

Also more home fans turn up for these games - Fact

[strichener]

They can next year... and the year after that... etc... Your view is nearly as short term as SFA/SFL/SPL

That is my point, at what juncture in the past have the visionary SPL chairmen looked past the end of their nose? Everything about Scottish Football has been short term. I would expect their attitude to be along the lines of:

"there is nothing they can do about it now but next year........if we have finished 2nd in the league or have European Football they'll come back.....anyway we will worry about that in 12 months time.

[killingfloorman]

Saw a news report this morning saying that the Edinburgh Zoo penguins are getting a new state-of-the-art enclosure built. The report also showed new born penguin chicks... awwwww!

Those penguins are just brilliant. They used to be the zoo's star attraction... Until those pesky pandas turned up. What did the penguins do? They stood at the edge of their enclosure and shat on the people below, who were queuing up to see the pandas. Mon' the penguins! The zoo had to build a perspex canopy to shield visitors from incoming penguin shit. Superb!

Then what happens? The male panda has two days a year to get his hole... bombs out. He did everything - did a handstand and pissed up the wall, saying 'Well hello there sweetie... Now, gie's ma' hole. Nothing. Meanwhile over in the penguin enclosure... pengiuns shagging like Russell Brand, cute penguin chicks everywhere, visitors desert the pandas... Penguins are No 1 game in town again. Brilliant.

Now - what the fcuk does this have to do with Sevco Works XI I hear you ask. Bear with me... Consider the pandas as the Old Firm, consider the penguins as us diddy teams. Consider the people queuing up to worship at the pandas feet as the succulent lamb red top brigade. Consider Edinburgh Zoo as the SPL...They have their two 'main attractions' - they get the biggest crowds, they attract sponsors, TV companies fall over themselves to report the pandas story. The zoo is happy. They do everything to give the pandas special treatment. New enclosure, everything they want, they get. The people lap it up. Panda shirts are seen worn by kids in provincial towns. Panda hats, panda mugs, panda-monium.... Meanwhile, the penguins are being ignored. No-one cares much though, the pandas are box office.

Then the pandas fcuk up. No baby pandas. The penguins start to shit on the heads of the people below them....the dynamic changes.

Mon' the penguins.

Your dealer obviously has access to the good stuff

Edited July 12, 2012 by killingfloorman

[HibeeJibee]

STV reporting Brechin will vote yes to Rangers in SFL 1 tomorrow.

That became apparent after last night's AGM.

While Stenny and (still not fully commital) Dumbarton appear to have justified it on grounds of losing the Settlement money*, for Brechin the promise of the reconstruction committee seems the carrot.

*a scenario now disputed e.g. by Clyde

[Tommytommybrolin]

Brechin have taken the Regan's 30 pieces of silver. Let's hope other small clubs are not so easily bullied.

[nofixedability]

I have given my view on this many times - I don't know. My understanding is that the cockwomble is a dead man walking, a loose cannon, and is doing a helluva' lot of stuff off his own back - like he has done before with his '10 team SPL' speech on the Hampden steps.

It's a mess, a complete mess - I do not know how much stuff the cockwomble (with or without Regan) gets up to on his own, or how many of the SPL chairmen are 'in on it'.

No matter who knows what and is talking to whom - I do not see how any of them can possibly think they could get away with having Sevco in the coming season's SPL. There's pissing off your own supporters and there's seeing them disappear like snaw' aff' a dyke in utter and complete disillusion.

Fair enough. I just think Doncaster would have been reigned in long ago if a majority of the SPL clubs did not back him in what he is up to. Also I can't for the life of me come up with a reason why the Dundee / Dunfermline decision will not be made until after the SFL one, surely it could have been done at the SPL meeting or since, can't be a coincidence that it's due the Monday after the Friday SFL vote, surely?

[davieholt]

That became apparent after last night's AGM.

While Stenny and (still not fully commital) Dumbarton appear to have justified it on grounds of losing the Settlement money*, for Brechin the promise of the reconstruction committee seems the carrot.

*a scenario now disputed e.g. by Clyde

From Jambo's Kickback

Understanding is Brechin will get Newco in Ramsdens Cup if Newco in SFL1 - haven't checked just carrying message given to me by Div 2 club director - unbefeckinleivable! (if fact).

[Kyle]

Fair enough. I just think Doncaster would have been reigned in long ago if a majority of the SPL clubs did not back him in what he is up to. Also I can't for the life of me come up with a reason why the Dundee / Dunfermline decision will not be made until after the SFL one, surely it could have been done at the SPL meeting or since, can't be a coincidence that it's due the Monday after the Friday SFL vote, surely?

I'm not 100% sure how it works, but is it maybe down to the SFL not yet receiving their formal resignations yet, so they can't be taken in by the SPL?

[strichener]

Brechin have taken the Regan's 30 pieces of metal that may or may not be silver but is defo not gold. Let's hope other small clubs are not so easily bullied.

Fixed!

[nofixedability]

From Jambo's Kickback

Understanding is Brechin will get Newco in Ramsdens Cup if Newco in SFL1 - haven't checked just carrying message given to me by Div 2 club director - unbefeckinleivable! (if fact).

Surely they would also get them in they were in SFL3? It's not a seeded draw. Regional yes, so if it was a redraw then...

[Highlandmagyar]

I'm not 100% sure how it works, but is it maybe down to the SFL not yet receiving their formal resignations yet, so they can't be taken in by the SPL?

Surely!! they would need to know WHERE they are going to be before resigning??

[ray_of_licht]

Scottish Football League clubs received proposals from the league board on Wednesday, following negotiations between their chief executive, David Longmuir, and his counterparts at the Scottish FA and Scottish Premier League.

SFL chairmen have been asked to consider the plans and, if in favour, give their vote on Friday to approve them and, in turn, allow Rangers to participate in the First Division in season 2012/13.

The following text is taken verbatim from the proposals as sent to clubs.

Draft Heads of Terms

A) In the event that Sevco Scotland Limited is admitted as Associate Member of Scottish Football League and that Rangers FC shall be directed to play in the First Division of the SFL during season 2012/13 by resolutions approved by general meeting by SFL on Friday 13th July, then the following are to be implemented.

Subject to The Rangers FC plc (in administration) signing a stock transfer in favour of Dundee or Dunfermline FC, a resolution will be tabled to a general meeting of the SPL to approve the registration of the transfer of that share.

A payment of a minimum of £1 million + VAT will be made by the SPL to SFL to purchase the broadcasting and other rights in respect of SFL Division One next season.

A resolution will be tabled to a general meeting to allow for play-offs at end of season 2012/13.

A working party will be formed, including three representatives from both the SPL and SFL, to devise a new structure for the senior professional game in Scotland.

a) The introduction of an enlarged top tier for Scottish Senior Professional Football.

b) A new detailed model for senior professional football in Scotland including number of divisions; number of clubs per division; number of matches per season per division; number of promotion and relegation places per division and the introduction and operation of play-offs.

c)

I) A combined rule book

II) Governance recognising that one league body should have a chairman and two non-executive directors (to be appointed by the board and nominated by a panel with equal representation between i. the top division and ii. the other divisions). Three directors elected by clubs in top division and two directors elected by clubs in remaining divisions.

III) In the event that any change to the rules has any bearing on position rights, divisional structure including promotion and relegation, then any change would require the support of 75% outside of top tier of football clubs.

IV) An all through distribution model, providing certainty for all clubs as to the percentage of distributable income that would be received.

V) An integrated executive.

d) The introduction of a pyramid for Scottish football to provide a route for licensed clubs to enter the new structure effective 2014/2015.

e) The value and number of parachute payments to be made across the new structure.

f) The Scottish FA to invest in a restructuring budget to facilitate the delivery of the above domestic structure.

In the event that a final decision is not reached by 30th November 2012, the Scottish FA will seek to implement a new structure in time for the 2013/2014 season. The members of the working party including Chairman will be announced in the near future and will ensure consultation with all stakeholders prior to final recommendations being made.

These heads of terms are not intended to be a contractual agreement which is legally binding between the parties.

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/rangers/110606-in-full-proposal-made-to-sfl-clubs-to-allow-rangers-into-first-division/

Edited July 12, 2012 by ray_of_licht

[stonedsailor]

The disgusting thing is that SFL should NEVER have been dealt with SPL shite.

The SPL dealt with it within their powers, the SPL firstly stated that a newco should not be granted automatic entry into an SPL slot vacated by the team who once owned the assets of the newco, they then said that the board of directors of the SPL should not have the power to allow entry to a newco club and that power should lie with the individual clubs in a democratic way, the clubs of the SPL then refused to allow Sevco entry to the SPL. What more could they do? Hang, draw and quarter Hughie Green so that he could not make an application to the SFL? I do not think they have the legal power to enforce that.

What is happening now is that a new club have made an application to the SFL, the SFL clubs can say yea or nay if they don't want the SPL shyte tell them to go f*ck themselves. Easy, it's not an SPL problem anymore.

[Arab in Exile]

Proposal made to SFL. Eh??? This it??? Really???

========

Scottish Football League clubs received proposals from the league board on Wednesday, following negotiations between their chief executive, David Longmuir, and his counterparts at the Scottish FA and Scottish Premier League.

SFL chairmen have been asked to consider the plans and, if in favour, give their vote on Friday to approve them and, in turn, allow Rangers to participate in the First Division in season 2012/13.

The following text is taken verbatim from the proposals as sent to clubs.

Draft Heads of Terms

A) In the event that Sevco Scotland Limited is admitted as Associate Member of Scottish Football League and that Rangers FC shall be directed to play in the First Division of the SFL during season 2012/13 by resolutions approved by general meeting by SFL on Friday 13th July, then the following are to be implemented.

• Subject to The Rangers FC plc (in administration) signing a stock transfer in favour of Dundee or Dunfermline FC, a resolution will be tabled to a general meeting of the SPL to approve the registration of the transfer of that share.
• A payment of a minimum of £1 million + VAT will be made by the SPL to SFL to purchase the broadcasting and other rights in respect of SFL Division One next season.
• A resolution will be tabled to a general meeting to allow for play-offs at end of season 2012/13.
• A working party will be formed, including three representatives from both the SPL and SFL, to devise a new structure for the senior professional game in Scotland.

a) The introduction of an enlarged top tier for Scottish Senior Professional Football.

b) A new detailed model for senior professional football in Scotland including number of divisions; number of clubs per division; number of matches per season per division; number of promotion and relegation places per division and the introduction and operation of play-offs.

c)

I) A combined rule book

II) Governance recognising that one league body should have a chairman and two non-executive directors (to be appointed by the board and nominated by a panel with equal representation between i. the top division and ii. the other divisions). Three directors elected by clubs in top division and two directors elected by clubs in remaining divisions.

III) In the event that any change to the rules has any bearing on position rights, divisional structure including promotion and relegation, then any change would require the support of 75% outside of top tier of football clubs.

IV) An all through distribution model, providing certainty for all clubs as to the percentage of distributable income that would be received.

V) An integrated executive.

d) The introduction of a pyramid for Scottish football to provide a route for licensed clubs to enter the new structure effective 2014/2015.

e) The value and number of parachute payments to be made across the new structure.

f) The Scottish FA to invest in a restructuring budget to facilitate the delivery of the above domestic structure.

In the event that a final decision is not reached by 30th November 2012, the Scottish FA will seek to implement a new structure in time for the 2013/2014 season. The members of the working party including Chairman will be announced in the near future and will ensure consultation with all stakeholders prior to final recommendations being made.

These heads of terms are not intended to be a contractual agreement which is legally binding between the parties.

[WaffenThinMint]

Disagree. The resolutions concocted by Doncaster and Regan have been so constructed in order that any 't' not crossed or any 'i' not dotted by the SFL clubs shall be pounced upon to assist SpivCo back in.

Clyde have responded with a statement which, by necessity, needed to be detailed and comprehensive.

The very complaint you have regarding long windedness is the very scenario that Regan & Doncaster are hoping to engender within the SFL clubs voting.

This was simply a public statement on the club's position, not a legal statement for an SFA or SFL meeting. The vast majority of Clyde supporters - let alone anyone else - won't bother to read anything so rambling and tedious to follow, that you yourself had to highlight the pertinent points because you know deep down no one would bother reading it otherwise!

I'm no journalist, but even I managed to get it down to this:

The board of Clyde Football Club met last night to consider how it might approach the resolutions to be voted on at the SFL meeting on Friday 13th July. This update explains how we might vote and we hope clarifies why.

We are being asked to make one of the most important decisions for Scottish Football whilst being given unhelpful rhetoric and scaremongering by the chief executives of the SFA and SPL in lieu of facts. We looked at what we were being asked to vote on, how it fitted with the principles of the sport, and what information we needed to make a logical decision in context.

The resolutions mark a clear departure from all previous process and custom and practice when considering admitting a team to the SFL, and the customary principles of sport.

There is limited risk to the SFL from the 'Armageddon' theory, as depicted in the detailed presentation by Neil Doncaster and supported by Stewart Regan, which had prompted fears of cash flow loss to the SFL next season. The Settlement Agreement signed up to by the SPL and the SFL in April 1998 is not ambiguous in this regard and there is no scope for the SPL to fail to meet the obligations to the SFL except by deliberately breaching the agreement. It defies credibility that the SPL clubs would instruct the SPL to deliberately breach a legal agreement.

Resolution 1 we conclude requires reworded to be explicit that entry was to SFL3 only, not SFL1 at the whim of the SFL Board Of Management.

It is also our opinion that Resolution 1 being explicit sits more appropriately with Resolution 2 which is explicit about "Sevco 5088/Rangers" might play.

In terms of Resolution 1 absolutely no information whatsoever has been provided to support the resolution. This is clearly a matter of haste driven by an external agenda: made worse because of the extent of uncertainty which hangs over the future of Sevco.

For the good of the game we would wish Rangers Football Club taking part in the game entered to SFL3. However, it is incumbent on all governing bodies to make available all factual information they have available if they truly wish this process to have any chance of being recovered from the current chaos. At the very least the business plan for Sevco and any other information that led the SPL clubs to arrive at a decision should be made available to the SFL clubs, and not at inappropriately short notice, although that point has as good as passed.

Yet the SFA has made it that no matter what decision is taken by the SFL clubs to administer their own league, the SFA would not tolerate anything other than the parachuting of Sevco5088/Rangers in SFL 1, as has Neil Doncaster ostensibly on behalf of the SPL clubs.

The stated position of the SFA and SPL chief executives means that we have no faith in the parties that the new arrangements would be negotiated in practice. Their behaviour to date is evidence enough.

We have no information on the proposals other than that distributed in advance of the meeting last week and no confidence in the parties that will control the process outside of the SFL. As such we would vote no to Resolution 2.

Resolution 3 is ultra vires as no invitation has been issued from the SPL to any SFL club to join, and remains so until the SPL make the appropriate approach.

In summary, the complete absence of information on Sevco Scotland Ltd renders it impossible to vote with any logic in favour of any of the Resolutions. The default in these circumstances would unfortunately be to vote against.

We hope and trust that this unacceptable situation will be resolved swiftly and will allow Clyde Football Club to support Resolution 1 from an informed position and will see Rangers Football Club playing in SFL3.

Resolution 2 is one of trust and only a change of personnel and attitude will satisfy us David Longmuir would enter discussions with people committed to a collaborative process in a spirit of genuine partnership. In the current circumstances our only decision could be to vote against Resolution 2. Subject to a satisfactory outcome on Resolution 1 we would support Resolution 3.

716 words in easily read format as opposed to 1910 of waffledom.

If you want to win a war of words, you need to sympathise with your audience.

[Kyle]

Surely!! they would need to know WHERE they are going to be before resigning??

You can't start a new job until you have resigned from your old one.

I agree with you btw - just trying to offer an explanation for it.

[pozbaird]

Dundee FC would bring more fans to McDiarmid Park than Rangers do - Fact.

Also more home fans turn up for these games - Fact

Yup - I should have said most grounds.

It's a point I've made myself several times too - there will be a financial hit (to most!) SPL clubs with the loss of visiting Rangers fans, but offset against that is the numbers that 'Club 12' will in fact bring, and also how many home fans who don't go to home games v OF sides will come to the 'Club 12' games.

We aren't too bad - we give the OF approximately 2,500 tickets. If we had 500 - 700 Dundee fans and let's say even 100-150 extra home fans... it's a hit, but not a fatal one.

Killie with their 16,000 capacity ground and a liking for turning over three-quarters of it to the OF? Problem.

[Amjam]

I'm not sure what else the SPL chairmen could've done. They could either vote Sevco in or not vote them in. What else could they do?

The shit storm that's been dropped on the SFL is an unfortunate, but inevitable side effect of that vote. Should the SPL chairmen have voted Sevco in to stop the SFL having to deal with it? Then where would we be?

[Highlandmagyar]

You can't start a new job until you have resigned from your old one.

I agree with you btw - just trying to offer an explanation for it.

But you WOULDNT resign from your job UNTIL youve got the new one!!

But yeah! point taken