Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Wellboy1978]

So how many yes/no's are we up to now?

[Granny Danger]

I appreciate your honesty but that kind of sentiment doesn't do the cause many favours, in my opinion. They've made their choice and will need to live with it.

Wishing struggling clubs ill is no better than the Sevco denialists.

Disagree with you on that. Too many orcs saying 'don't punish us for the sins of our club', I don't buy that. The same with the clubs that are either bought off or allow themselves to be bullied; take the decision you want but accept the consequences when fans of other clubs won't go to your grounds.

[pozbaird]

I don't plan to boycott any club who doesn't vote the way I would like to see them vote. That smacks of bullying and threatening tactics ahead of the actual vote - just like Doncaster, Regan, and the desperate red tops.

Marching on Hampden and issuing threats, threatening armageddon and clubs going to the wall, demanding to know 'who are these people?'....

Let's leave that for others. We know who they are, we shouldn't stoop to their level.

[HibeeJibee]

If that's 4 public expressions of 'YES', then they're some way short of getting this through are they not?

What's the voting system? Don't then need a majority of the 30 SFL clubs, ie 16 to vote yes?

You'd think so... but it's not yet apparent [1] if the promise of the reconstruction committee will cause some SFL1 clubs to turn-tail; [2] whether if clubs vote for part (i) it means Rangers can be placed to SFL1 anyway as it's ambigious; and [3] if tomorrow's vote isn't going to be postponed EU-style incase they lose it (suggested in today's Scotsman).

[strichener]

Just re-reading the Peterhead statement and it looks like we know more than just fishing, integrity appears to be recognisable in the North East!!

changes that were deemed wholly unworkable prior to Newco Rangers application to join the SFL after expulsion from the SPL.

AND

Although we are to come under severe pressure from bodies outwith the SFL to accept these fast-tracked changes to accomodate at Newco team and to hail this proposal as a 'blue print to safeguard the future of Scottish Football', we must retain our stance and those of the majority of our fans to vote NO.

Get it right up yeh SFA/SPL.

[Jim Leighton]

Just while I'm in soap-box mode, imagine that I win Euromillions tomorrow night. I use a good chunk of that cash to buy a football club, lets say Edinburgh United. I decide to take out a 100 year lease on Murrayfield from SRU after matching their price. I know have a club with nearly 30 years of accounts and a 50,000+ seater stadium.I am prepared to bankroll them to the tune of say £10,000,000 a season.

If I apply to the SFL, can I get into the 1st Division please?

It's a travesty and a joke. Our game is corrupt but when you look at FIFA, it's probably only a case of little brother copying big brother. They're all as bad as each other.

In the words of the Dragon's Den guy being quoted in one of the chip wrappers... I'm out.

[stonedsailor]

I don't agree. Any 'diddy' club that chooses £££££££ over the integrity of the game deserves everything they get.

These clubs are leeches. There are clubs outwith the SFL who HAVE to get by without SFA or SPL hand-me-downs. If these clubs need them, get the f**k out of the SFL.

LEECHES.

I understand, honestly, but the way I see it is I have not done many away trips in the past 10-12 years due to family commitments etc but next season I will make the effort to attend at least one Raith Rovers match and I will also do my best to travel to Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd and St Johnstone due to their promt declarations of No to Newco in the SPL. I am not going to say I am boycotting Kilmarnock because I would hardly be likely to visit them anyway, is it not better to be positive rather than negative in this whole situation?

[Highlandmagyar]

So how many yes/no's are we up to now?

If I am right its

4 FOR

Albion Rovers

Brechin City

Dumbarton

Stenhousemuir

AGAINST

Everyone else --- except Partick Thistle, Falkirk (on the fence)

ABSTAINING

Airdrie

Dundee

Stranraer

[David W]

Tomorrow the Scottish Football League will hold an Extraordinary General Meeting charged with deciding how to handle the controversial application of the Newco Rangers to join the league. A range of substantial reform proposals is also likely to be considered alongside this question, summarised in the joint press release issued last night by the SFL, the SFA and the SPL.

There has been speculation that the DFC Board has already made its mind up which way to vote. This speculation is wrong. At this stage there remain further detailed negotiations and concerns still under consideration.

Following the consultation meeting with our key stakeholders last Saturday, we have continued to listen hard to what our supporters have been saying, and to the depth of feelings expressed.

Similarly, we are required to consider the best interests of the Club, and the game of which we are part.

Those responsibilities towards the Club, the fans and our colleagues in Scottish football will continue to be weighed seriously as we evaluate what comes onto the table at the EGM and decide how to respond tomorrow.

Dumbarton not in the YES list yet.

[Jim Leighton]

I appreciate your honesty but that kind of sentiment doesn't do the cause many favours, in my opinion. They've made their choice and will need to live with it.

Wishing struggling clubs ill is no better than the Sevco denialists.

They only struggle because they show greed beyond their means, just like the SPL clubs.

[Claymores]

I get the sarcasm but talk of boycotting clubs other than Sevco is a bit too much, Sevco are the only villainous party in this piece. I can understand fans of clubs like Brechin who are at odds with the way their own club have voted walking away from the game but not boycotting a third party club just because of the way they vote. We are at a point where we diddies should be supporting each other and if possible helping clubs who do the right thing, not trying to harm clubs who have done nothing more than try to survive. We are the good guys, we should be doing positive things not negative things.

It was tongue-in-cheek as is my suggestion that Div should default the fans of the spineless 4s "My Team" to "Sevco". I was at Bayview last night to see us getting gubbed and looked around the place just in case it was my last ever time there as not gonna play ball with Scottish fitba anymores if Sevco in 1st with a guaranteed route up next year. That's an individual's choice and shame on me for penalising EFFC who don't even acknowlege the case for Sevco to be automatically parachuted to the 3rd without going through the competitive application process. The talk at the game last night is that NOBODY will darken Stenni or Albion's door next season even if the 2nd is left unmolested.

(we didn't know Brechin were spineless surrender monkeys yet last night)

Edited July 12, 2012 by Claymores

[Kyle]

Is the 'shame' list of Yes's now Stenhousemuir, Dumbarton, Albion Rovers and Brechin? Any more?

I'd mitigate this by saying that only Stenny have officially come out and explicity said yes. Dumbarton's supporters at their meeting seem to let them down, but they have also said the board misinterpretted/misrepresented the facts. I hear that they're coming under severe pressure from the fans and some people within too, so that could well change. . Albion Rovers could just as easily be a no as a yes, judging by their statement - it's still very much on the fence IMO, but the chairman did say this would normally be a no, and they were still looking into it. The 8% 'drop' argument is fundamentally flawed in my eyes, but we'll see. Brechin's view seems to be coming from the fans, although I'd expect that will be a yes in the end.

[HibeeJibee]

If I am right its

4 FOR

Albion Rovers

Brechin City

Dumbarton

Stenhousemuir

AGAINST

Everyone else --- except Partick Thistle, Falkirk (on the fence)

ABSTAINING

Airdrie

Dundee

Stranraer

Not all those are confirmed, IIRC.

[Claymores]

I'd mitigate this by saying that only Stenny have officially come out and explicity said yes. Dumbarton's supporters at their meeting seem to let them down, but they have also said the board misinterpretted/misrepresented the facts. I hear that they're coming under severe pressure from the fans and some people within too, so that could well change. . Albion Rovers could just as easily be a no as a yes, judging by their statement - it's still very much on the fence IMO, but the chairman did say this would normally be a no, and they were still looking into it. The 8% 'drop' argument is fundamentally flawed in my eyes, but we'll see. Brechin's view seems to be coming from the fans, although I'd expect that will be a yes in the end.

I'm perhaps interpreting Albion Rovers - but their decision to have a pre-season friendly against Sevco speaks volumes more to me than the 'scared to say yes openly' statement they've put up on their website.

[Sam Leitch Loyal]

If Dundee go up and Sevco take their place in the Ramsdens Cup, don't Brechin stand to gain from a home tie against the Orcs? Wouldn't want a boycott, would they?

Or have I got my fixtures wrong?

[Highlandmagyar]

Not all those are confirmed, IIRC.

You are correct HJ

[Team Bible]

I suggest you stop reading that Rangers propaganda in the Daily Record and read this instead.

What If There’s No Santa?

“If Santa knows that you’re being bad, you’ll not get any presents on Christmas Day.”

Were any of us not subjected to that threat at some point in our childhood?

What a brilliant way to keep someone in line! Invent a myth, keep repeating it until you convince your weans that it’s true and then use it to manipulate them according to your wishes. As a child, I sometimes wondered about the logistics of this remarkable operation. We all did. The whole world? In one night? Presents for every single well-behaved child? All carried on one sleigh? Seriously?

It seemed that something didn’t quite add up here but wherever I looked, everyone confirmed the reality of Santa. Parents, relatives, neighbours, teachers, random strangers all had their stories straight. Television programmes and adverts, grottos in department stores, pictures on billboards, songs on the radio, each provided further evidence that nobody except me had even noticed any of the inherent inconsistencies about this extraordinary person and his work.

Why don’t all the starving children in Africa ask for enough food to keep them alive? If his elves are making all these toys themselves, how come they look exactly the same as the ones in the shops? What’s the point of the shops trying to sell Air-fix Lancaster bomber model kits or Subbuteo sets if everyone can get one for nothing? It didn’t make sense.

On the other hand, I had a suspicion that it might be unwise to express too much scepticism. It might even cost me a train set.

By all accounts, only people who actually believed in Santa got presents from him. It finally came to the point when I not only knew beyond reasonable doubt that Santa must be a myth; I also realised that I had been surrounded by liars for years. But no sooner had I become cognisant of the Great Deception than the liars invited me to join their conspiracy. There were younger siblings and cousins who had to remain deceived and it wouldn’t do for me to blow the whistle. I calculated that by publicly maintaining the pretence that I believed in Santa, I might be able to raise the stakes for next Christmas. It was to be a red bicycle or else.

(At this point I must apologise to any readers who hadn’t yet heard the bad news that there is no Santa. If it’s any consolation, Graham Speirs knew this three weeks ago before anyone else although he didn’t bother to write about it. In any case, in a few months time the Daily Record will claim that it was the first to break the story.)

As with the Santa myth, so with the Rangers myths. One of the recurring myths is that Rangers are a financial powerhouse, an economic engine which supplies Scottish football with huge revenues upon which almost every club is almost totally reliant. According to myth, even Celtic need Rangers.

Celtic have long since grown up and don’t believe in Rangers so they have dismissed that myth. Many other clubs, however, are holding out for a red bicycle. Some will settle for a train set. So long as they are compliant and believe in Rangers, they’ll get something for nothing in defiance of all logic.

Over the course of the last decade, the mighty Rangers economic powerhouse ran itself into the ground. If the tax authorities know anything about taxes – and it seems to me to be a reasonable starting assumption that they know quite a lot – we can go on to assume that when Rangers crashed into oblivion, the hole they were in was about £140 million deep. In truth it is even deeper.

On top of the money owed to hundreds of creditors there are previous matters to consider. In 2004, the mythical billionaire Minty Moonbeams reportedly squirted a £51.4 million pound “injection” into Rangers simmering accounts after a rights issue was formulated to reduce the club’s then £73.9 million debt. In truth, the attempt to raise capital was a catastrophic failure and Murray MHL Limited, which had underwritten the share issue, was obliged to take the hit. In effect, all that happened was that some paperwork was signed so that a £50 million debt to HBOS was shifted sideways from one basket case Murray business in Ibrox to another, even worse one in Edinburgh.

The debt was never paid back before HBOS croaked. It was subsequently picked up by the tax-payer as part of Gordon Brown’s £37 billion rescue package to maintain the lifestyles of corrupt, fraudulent banksters and their cronies. We’re now getting close to £200 million of Rangers damage to other parties. But say nothing. There might be a red bicycle in it for you.

Meanwhile, despite running up the longest series of consecutive 0-3 defeats in the history of football, Rangers were awarded the championship titles on five occasions during this period, thus enabling the SPL to divert millions of pounds of prize money away from the rightful league winners and into the colossal overdraft of the mythical economic powerhouse. The SFA, hoping for a red bicycle, duly notified UEFA that Rangers would represent Scotland in the Champions league in the following season. Tens of millions of pounds worth of prize money would never reach the club which had really earned that place by playing the game according to the rules.

Five seasons of SPL and Champions League prize money take the damage up to the quarter of a billion pound mark. Yet the economic powerhouse still went bust.

There have been other substantial cash investments from dubious sources. Dave King still faces hundreds of charges of fraud, tax evasion and money-laundering in South Africa on an industrial scale. At the last count, I made it 322 charges in all. The money laundering activities relate to drugs-running operations, illegal arms deals, child pornography and a host of other unwholesome activities. Fortunately for Rangers, £25 million of the proceeds of those disgusting enterprises found its way into Dick Advocat’s warchest. Red bicycles for everyone who sees no connection.

In 1992, Joe Lewis made his fortune by launching an all out attack on the UK’s currency reserves which cost the nation a minimum of £3.4 billion pounds on Black Wednesday. To balance up the damage done to the economy, Lewis dribbled £40 million into Ibrox economic powerhouse. Red bicycles for everyone who believes forty million pounds minus three point four billion pounds equals a positive balance. No need to show your working; just believe.

And on and on and on.

Just over a year ago, Chief Constable of Strathclyde Police Stephen House was so convinced by the magnitude of Rangers’ contribution to society that he dominated the news headlines for days with his calls for ‘Old Firm’ games to be played behind closed doors or even banned altogether. Police Federation Spokesman, Les Gray, repeatedly rammed home a similar message that the country could no longer afford to bear the financial cost to the police, A&E, ambulance services and so on.

Ignore all that and collect your red bicycle on Christmas Day.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

A slight digression:

There are different methods which can be employed to control a system. Those who want to direct the behaviour of others have a number of options which range from reasoned, enlightened consensus to brutal, violent oppression. In practice, most systems are operated along the lines of one of the other options in between these extremes. The best and most efficient way for human beings to prosper together is within a co-operative, consensual group which is founded on mutual trust and respect. This has been demonstrated and proved in countless studies yet the notion is regularly undermined and dismissed.

It’s important to recognise that this co-operative model struggles to gain acceptance purely because we live in a society that is dominated by a Psychopathic Control Grid (PCG). The PCG embraces government, banking and financial systems, the military, corporate industry, the media, the advertising industry and the education system. It is utterly dependent upon its ability to control, manipulate and exploit the rest of us. To this end, it creates myths which require us to suspend our critical faculties in order to accept them.

It is clearly not in the self-interest of the type of parasites who hold positions of power within the Psychopathic Control Grid to encourage us to believe that we don’t need them. They prefer to promulgate myths such as the Survival Of The Fittest, create unnecessary confrontations and frighten us with imaginary threats from which they will “protect” us by restricting our options. The fact still remains that we are all better off when we are co-operating with each other instead of allowing ourselves to be exploited by abusers. But a smokescreen of misinformation and distortion of the true picture creates uncertainty and confusion. The Roman occupation can continue indefinitely for as long as the People’s Front of Judea argue with the Judean People’s Front, the Judean Popular People’s Front, the Campaign for a Free Galilee, and the Popular Front of Judea.

A fundamental, practical weakness of a tyrannical approach, backed by brute force, is that it is hopelessly inefficient. The overwhelming majority of those involved in such a system understand that they are being mercilessly exploited but even those who expect to emerge as winners ultimately find that their own position is insecure and constantly under threat. They are constantly running up the down escalator just to maintain position and know that will be swept back to the bottom if they ever ease up. Nevertheless, this inhuman Babylonian model is still the one which comes most naturally to a psychopath. It’s in widespread use, whether in the context of an abusive family unit, a Mafia-style organisation or an entire Police State.

In the most successful and more sophisticated variations of the model, people’s sense of their own worth is chronically undermined by a relentless tide of psychological assaults designed to rob them of confidence, security and perception. This approach reduces the need for the controllers to resort to outright physical oppression. Words themselves lose their meaning; a peace-keeping force consists almost entirely of trained warriors who are armed to the teeth; austerity measures require tens of millions of pounds to be paid to the people who collapsed the economy; rebels and insurgents are people who are trying to kick occupying forces from distant continents out of their homelands; and sporting integrity is a system whereby the biggest cheats in the history of British football are effectively given a guarantee that they will win their next league campaign, even if the rule book has to be scrapped to make it happen. There is such an overwhelming, never-ending bombardment of lies, deceits and affronts to decency that it becomes harder and harder for anyone to stand up confidently, point to the truth and say, “There it is!”

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Regardless of all that, here is the truth.

The SFL and SFA, amongst others, have dedicated themselves to the perpetuation of the Rangers Myth.

They worship at the shrine of a fake god which they have created themselves. They warn of dire consequences if puny mortals fail to venerate this mighty deity. They sacrifice honour, justice and honesty at the altar of their idol. They glorify their god through acts of bare-faced hypocrisy, blatant match-fixing and stinking corruption.

For red bicycles and Santa, read SPL money and television.

For Rudolf defying the laws of aerodynamics, read Rangers defying the fundamentals of economics.

Just as Santa could only complete his night’s work by travelling faster than the speed of light, contrary to every principle of physics, so Zombie **** can only compete in Scottish football if every inconvenient rule is deliberately broken and every sporting principle is ignored.

To those who staunchly, defiantly believe in Rangers, despite all the evidence, this is as straightforward as believing in Santa Claus.

They just have to ignore the overwhelming proofs that what they want to believe cannot possibly be true. They’ll see one club recklessly spending everyone else’s money and they’ll call it generating revenue. They’ll see tax evasion, fraud and cheating but they’ll call it financial might, vision and dignity. They must wilfully ignore that even when the now-defunct club was at its most successful it still sucked far more money out of society than it put in.

They are determined to perpetuate the myth of Rangers for the sake of a red bicycle.

But the facts are laid bare for all to see. Zombie ****, and Rangers before them, are no more a linchpin of a successful, solvent, sustainable Scottish football set-up than a letter to Santa is a solution to the banking crisis.

http://henryclarson.wordpress.com/

^^^^^^^^^ this..........maybe a wee bit hard on Santa, though I caught the b*****d kissing ma mum.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Team Bible

[Kyle]

I'm perhaps interpreting Albion Rovers - but their decision to have a pre-season friendly against Sevco speaks volumes more to me than the 'scared to say yes openly' statement they've put up on their website.

I actually think that's quite good management from their board - Sevco have no games and could potentially bring a big away support. This could be a way to mitigate their 8% 'drop' in income, and would allow them to vote no.

As I say, I think their statement was quite ambiguous, but I don't think it constitutes a yes.

[calum_gers]

If Dundee go up and Sevco take their place in the Ramsdens Cup, don't Brechin stand to gain from a home tie against the Orcs? Wouldn't want a boycott, would they?

No that's the fixture I saw. It would make sense just to substitute Rangers and create minimum fuss. It's only regionalised for the 1st isn't it. That's assuming we get into the 3rd.

Or have I got my fixtures wrong?

[stonedsailor]

Just while I'm in soap-box mode, imagine that I win Euromillions tomorrow night. I use a good chunk of that cash to buy a football club, lets say Edinburgh United. I decide to take out a 100 year lease on Murrayfield from SRU after matching their price. I know have a club with nearly 30 years of accounts and a 50,000+ seater stadium.I am prepared to bankroll them to the tune of say £10,000,000 a season.

If I apply to the SFL, can I get into the 1st Division please?

It's a travesty and a joke. Our game is corrupt but when you look at FIFA, it's probably only a case of little brother copying big brother. They're all as bad as each other.

In the words of the Dragon's Den guy being quoted in one of the chip wrappers... I'm out.

You must have the same numbers as me as I had a similar plan, except I had thought I might go further and source the owners of Third Lanark AC's history with the mind to purchase it and attach it to my new club (no purchase of an already existing club) just to give us a wee head start in the honours roll.