Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Bigmouth Strikes Again]

It's been referred to as Zombie Rangers a few times for different reasons - but like a zombie I'm not sure that it is actually killable!

It is, you've got to put a bullet right through the centre of the skull, or decapitate the b*****d.

[Dungolfin]

Scotland on Sunday has obtained a copy of the latest proposals by the Professional Game Board of the Scottish Football Association.

The plan is to create a league company with 16 £1 A ordinary shares and 30 £1 B ordinary shares. The new SPFL would have a Premier League and three lower divisions as at present. At present the SPL has 16 shares in its company but only 12 are issued, and in the new league these SPL clubs would have the A shares. The other 30 clubs would get the B shares, with clubs exchanging B for A shares when they are promoted to the Premier League.

The document states: "The A ordinary shares and B ordinary shares would have different class voting rights. As at present, proposals for Amendments to the Articles of Association and to section C of the rules (financial and commercial matters) as well as other strategic matters, which are defined as Qualified Resolutions, would require to be supported by not less than 11 clubs holding A ordinary shares."

Didn't notice any mention of this on the forum yesterday (might have missed it) but I thought that the "proposal" to allow Newco FC into SFL1 came with new voting and financial distribution rules.

From the above article it would seem that Reagan is not only trying to safeguard the "Oldco" he also wants to ensure they, and their partners, still have a block on any real changes.

I have suspected for some time that once Sevco are back in the SPL it'll be business as usual and the SPL will be pulling up the ladder behind them. The current situation represents a once in a generation opportunity to redress the balance in Scottish football and if the SFL board settle for anything less than fair distribution of finance, voting rights and a guarantee of league reconstruction then they are fools. I'm not holding my breath though, when it's all blown over I'd expect the same financial arguments against an expanded league to be made again and if it hasn't happened in the next 2 seasons it'll get kicked into touch.

[ThirdrockfromtheSon]

Sorry Dumbarton fans but I now wont be attending our pre-season friendly with you. If we lose the vote on Friday the game is fucked and I wont be back anyway. If the vote is won then it has been made a hell of a lot more difficult due to the cowardice of DFC. Doncaster and Regan talk pish. Dont listen to their lies. Stand up to them vote No to Newco. But already too late for DFC it seems......

Can't say I blame you. Why don't you go to www.dumbartonfc.com and contact the Club - email FTAO Alan Jardine - and tell him why you're not coming to the friendly.

There's still time for us all to try and change/focus their minds.Anyone else wants to email them on a similar topic- fine by me.

Having sat through the meeting, my suspicions are that if the vote had gone the other way, the Chairman and Board would have went down the Yes to Sevco 2012 anyway.

He's absolutely shitting himself over the formation of SPL2. That's his biggest fear.

And my biggest fear is the backlash from others as a result of our Board being cowards.

[Highland Dogma]

How will Sevco die if placed in Div3? I'm being serious. I just can't see how running costs can't be met ibhf they, unrealistically I know have 50,000 orcs at each home game.

Not calling you out HD but could you explain without sounding like a broken record?

ETA: stupid phone and thick fingers posted the post mid-post!

No prob...have stated this before but oldco with full houses paying spl st money, large sponsorship deals based on large crowds and Cl involvement, Cl crowds, spl TV money,Cl TV money and merchandising was losing over a million per month. They have huge running costs due to mp and ibrox including business rates gas, leccy, maintenance, pitch management and around a hundred non playing staff who are on decent salaries and benefits. Under tupe newco must honour these. In sfl three...the Cl crowds,Cl TV money, spl TV and prize money and large sponsorship deals disappear. Tickets must not exceed twelve quid in sfl three. That will be the primary source of income whilst all of the outgoing s remain apart from players but even likes of Wallace and mcculloch tupeing over is a huge drain. It's also naive to expect full houses for three yrs in sfl. In seventies and eighties oldco struggled to get ten thousand for non of games in the top tier. Rfc fans are only interested in easy ready made glory as illustrated by their failure to do anything positive to help since Feb. There is no way fiscally they survive in sfl three without a benefactor writing off tens of millions each year...and when oldco was still receiving all those revenue streams and was for sale for one pound...there were no takers. Hope this helps

[Homer Thompson]

I have suspected for some time that once Sevco are back in the SPL it'll be business as usual and the SPL will be pulling up the ladder behind them. The current situation represents a once in a generation opportunity to redress the balance in Scottish football and if the SFL board settle for anything less than fair distribution of finance, voting rights and a guarantee of league reconstruction then they are fools. I'm not holding my breath though, when it's all blown over I'd expect the same financial arguments against an expanded league to be made again and if it hasn't happened in the next 2 seasons it'll get kicked into touch.

The price of all this, of course, is newco in Division 1. Is it worth it?

Can't say I blame you. Why don't you go to www.dumbartonfc.com and contact the Club - email FTAO Alan Jardine - and tell him why you're not coming to the friendly.

There's still time for us all to try and change/focus their minds.Anyone else wants to email them on a similar topic- fine by me.

Having sat through the meeting, my suspicions are that if the vote had gone the other way, the Chairman and Board would have went down the Yes to Sevco 2012 anyway.

He's absolutely shitting himself over the formation of SPL2. That's his biggest fear.

And my biggest fear is the backlash from others as a result of our Board being cowards.

I dont imagine he will be the only one. It would be a disaster for anyone left outside of it

[lithgierose]

anybody tell me what happens if sevco are allowed into div 1 and dont qualify for promotion for the next season.say they finish 7th or abou.t.is there more debating for change again.allowing them into the first doesnt mean they will win it or finish in the top three or four.

probably all been gone over further down thread.

[Swello]

So it wont be called the SPL, but it will have 12 teams in it - made up of the 12 SPL teams - and an identical voting structure. Yeah, I can see the clubs really going for that one

I can't believe that - why would they even try to insert another 11-1 clause and who do they expect to vote for that?? I'm sure the main "silver linings" for SPL diddy chairmen in all this are the chance to claw back some shortfall by altering TV distribution and making the voting more equitable to allow other decisions to be made in the future that help the non-OF teams.

Peter Lawell must have been on the phone.....

[Wokcomble]

not quite.

Our Trust has a rep on the board, and fund most (all?) of the club's youth development initiatives. We probably have more influence at the club than quite a lot of other clubs' fans, but to say the Trust 'more or less run the club' only starts to be accurate if you lean towards the 'less' part of your statement.

To correct an earlier post of mine, the Sons facebook page has now allowed my post, unedited. Maybe if more punters add comments the message might start to get through?

Cheers, I was also led to believe that on a matchday the Trust are responsible for most things that go on at the club.

If it is a 'Yes' vote from Sons I , and I'm pretty sure many others, will never set foot in the ground again.

You've got plenty of good guys over there, it's never too late to change your vote.

[Homer Thompson]

No prob...have stated this before but oldco with full houses paying spl st money, large sponsorship deals based on large crowds and Cl involvement, Cl crowds, spl TV money,Cl TV money and merchandising was losing over a million per month. They have huge running costs due to mp and ibrox including business rates gas, leccy, maintenance, pitch management and around a hundred non playing staff who are on decent salaries and benefits. Under tupe newco must honour these. In sfl three...the Cl crowds,Cl TV money, spl TV and prize money and large sponsorship deals disappear. Tickets must not exceed twelve quid in sfl three. That will be the primary source of income whilst all of the outgoing s remain apart from players but even likes of Wallace and mcculloch tupeing over is a huge drain. It's also naive to expect full houses for three yrs in sfl. In seventies and eighties oldco struggled to get ten thousand for non of games in the top tier. Rfc fans are only interested in easy ready made glory as illustrated by their failure to do anything positive to help since Feb. There is no way fiscally they survive in sfl three without a benefactor writing off tens of millions each year...and when oldco was still receiving all those revenue streams and was for sale for one pound...there were no takers. Hope this helps

Im not questioning your reasoning - I agree with you in general - but the TUPEing over of staff doesnt necessarily mean they need to continue to pay them. They could be made redundant if not required. Obviously, that doesnt apply to the players.

anybody tell me what happens if sevco are allowed into div 1 and dont qualify for promotion for the next season.say they finish 7th or abou.t.is there more debating for change again.allowing them into the first doesnt mean they will win it or finish in the top three or four.

probably all been gone over further down thread.

My guess, although how it would be achieved Im not sure, would be that if Rangers finish high enough in the first the play offs would be extended to accomodate them. If they finish too low or dont go through the play offs then SPL 2 comes along again.

Not only that, but by stating, so categorically, that Rangers cant be out of the SPL for more than one season, are the SFA not already pre-judging their own tribunal panel, who are still to come back on the disrepute charge and any future hearings on dual contracts?

[lithgierose]

thanks Mr x so no matter where they finish,they gain.fvckin liberty

[Homer Thompson]

thanks Mr x so no matter where they finish,they gain.fvckin liberty

Obviously, no one knows. But its hard to imagine the three governing bodies doing so much, and so publicly, this season to ensure Rangers are in the second tier and then simply standing back and watch them flounder in it for more than the one season they want.

I think its a huge risk for them to come out and declare publicly that Rangers can only be out of the top tier for one season. It leaves them open to all sorts of accusations

[thelegendthatis]

You'd actually learn more by reading Mein Kampf.

Most of the guys on this forum have more relevance than 'Ol Strawberry Nose.

I have read Mein Kampf. Well not totally. I got to page 2 and decided that was enough.

Funny thing is that by the time I read Leggo's headline and the first sentence I make the same decision.

Anyone got a photograph of Leggo with a 'hitler' style muzzi?

[DeeGeeOneHamer]

Im not questioning your reasoning - I agree with you in general - but the TUPEing over of staff doesnt necessarily mean they need to continue to pay them. They could be made redundant if not required. Obviously, that doesnt apply to the players.

Once the staff are TUPE'd over then Sevco would have to consult on changing their T&Cs, if the staff don't agree then they are made redundant on their original terms and conditions. By the looks of things Yorkie Chuck doesn't have the cash to make those kind of payments either.

I am astonished by this whole process, the yellow streak running through our game at an administrative level is embarrassing. Long hoped it wasn't true but we really are a backward football nation, and if the fact the likes of Doncaster (a failed club CEO) and Regan (a cricket man) are the best available to run our game speaks volumes.

[Highland Dogma]

Im not questioning your reasoning - I agree with you in general - but the TUPEing over of staff doesnt necessarily mean they need to continue to pay them. They could be made redundant if not required. Obviously, that doesnt apply to the players.

My guess, although how it would be achieved Im not sure, would be that if Rangers finish high enough in the first the play offs would be extended to accomodate them. If they finish too low or dont go through the play offs then SPL 2 comes along again.

Not only that, but by stating, so categorically, that Rangers cant be out of the SPL for more than one season, are the SFA not already pre-judging their own tribunal panel, who are still to come back on the disrepute charge and any future hearings on dual contracts?

My understanding of tupe is precisely that they cannot make them redundant...that's the whole point of the legislation. Its either six or twelve month commitment i belive though disciplinary procedures can be used to dismiss someone but redundancy is not an option and industrial tribunals will go through such disciplinaries within a tupe. With a fine tooth comb. This is aside from fact these staff will for the most part be essential to running and operating ibrox and mp...outwith bellends like jardine of course. I suspect that when Lloyd's were running oldco they would have dumped them if they were surplus to requirements

Edited July 9, 2012 by Highland Dogma

[rustyarabnuts]

I find myself almost agreeing with Leggo today.

That's it I'm oot!

Amazingly, I actually agrre with MOST of his blog today, the only sticking point being he says only st Johnston and hibs will survive errrrmmmm I dont think so Loggo

[Mark Connolly]

I had just about managed to return to normal.....and now I'm raging again.

Why are the SFA and SPL trying so hard to accomodate a team that is either a) brand new, or b) an extension of a club that has systematically shafted everyone in the game AND the public purse over the last 20 years?

When Aridrie died, they reapplied as a Newco and were told to f*ck off. When Gretna died and reapplied as a Newco, they were told to f*ck off. These are PRECEDENTS, Regan and Cockwomble!!!!

If you want Rangers there so badly, why don't you pay off all their debts, and award them the treble for last season due to the unfortunate circumstances they suffered.

In fact, why bother with a league, just award Rangers the title in perpetuity.

[Happy Buddie]

anybody tell me what happens if sevco are allowed into div 1 and dont qualify for promotion for the next season.say they finish 7th or abou.t.is there more debating for change again.allowing them into the first doesnt mean they will win it or finish in the top three or four.

probably all been gone over further down thread.

Well, IF they get a lot of "helpful" referees, dodgy penalties, opposition goals dubiously disallowed, late "gift" goals, there shouldn't be any issue re. non-promotion, but that would never happen in Scottish football, would it. No...., wait..... .

There have been some views that even in present form, thye'll struggle to get automatic promotion, so mibbe that's why play-offs are being mentioned, you can fiddle the result of a knockout series easier than in a league situation, if they were to finish 2nd or 3rd. If they finish below that, there will be a pre-pared league reconstruction document waiting in the background ready to be unfurled as soon as it becomes obvious that even the play-offs are beyond them.

[P45]

There's stuff going round Twitter that they are looking to resign Aluko if they get into the first.

If they get guys in like that then the chances are that they will win promotion at the first attempt.

[thelegendthatis]

Sent off to all MEPs via http://www.writetothem.com/

Read their guidelines http://www.writetoth...bout-guidelines, so change the wording of this if you want to use it otherwise it is spammed out by writetothem

With the demise (going into administration and soon to be liquidation) of Rangers FC they have suffered the same fate as other football clubs in Scotland have done previously. The constitution and the rules of the governing body (the SFA) and the bodies which run the league competitions (SPL and SFL) detail how clubs facing such issues should be dealt with.

Currently between these three bodies, their rules are being ignored, manipulated, and changed as the desire from some key officials is to bring Sevco (the company that bought the assets of Rangers FC) straight into Division 1 of the SFL as a new entrant. This is totally at odds with their own rules and constitutions and also how other clubs such as Livingston and Annan Atheltic were dealt with a few years back. This approach is not only unfair to all football clubs in Scotland but also those who might have ambitions to join the Scottish Football League as a new entrant at the bottom level.

To ignore, adapt or even change the laws of these legally constituted companies to create unfair advantage is against natural competition, and therefore should be examined and challenged where appropriate by the EU.

I am requesting you to raise this matter with the EU Commissioner responsible for Anti Competition agreements with a view to them ensuring any agreements made by any of the three bodies referred to is examined and challenged by the Commissioner.

It is essential that the bodies running Scottish football must accept they must treat all clubs equally and fairly, based on their own rules and constitutions.

Edited July 9, 2012 by thelegendthatis

[sons superhero]

[quote name='Mr X' timestamp='1341827923'

My guess, although how it would be achieved Im not sure, would be that if Rangers finish high enough in the first the play offs would be extended to accomodate them. If they finish too low or dont go through the play offs then SPL 2 comes along again.

Not only that, but by stating, so categorically, that Rangers cant be out of the SPL for more than one season, are the SFA not already pre-judging their own tribunal panel, who are still to come back on the disrepute charge and any future hearings on dual contracts?

As was suggested at the Dumbarton meeting.