Jump to content
pozbaird

Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

Recommended Posts

So, we're looking at a situation whereby no matter the amount of debt, no matter how it was racked up, no matter the setting up of dodgy offshore payment schemes, and no matter how much of a shyster and manipulator the new owner is - administration is his call, deliberately played at the appropriate moment to set himself up nicely and to allow his club to cheat their way out of a crisis built up over many years of buying success and cheating.

It's OK though - they're a football club. Not a normal business?

Someone please tell me I'm wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My brief email to Ms Robison:

Dear Ms Robison

I would be grateful if you might be in a position to qualify your recent comments as to why Rangers are "crucial to the Scottish game" (reported on the BBC website on 13th February 2012).

Are Rangers any more crucial than Dumbarton (my local team), St Mirren FC (the team I have supported since I was a teenager), or any other Scottish club I might care to mention? Would you have commented to this effect had one of these clubs been faced with, what is, after all, a self-inflicted scenario brought about by gross financial imprudence? Why should HMRC reach an 'agreement' with Rangers FC, and what form might this take? If Rangers FC are liable for a tax bill in excess of £50M with penalties that could add a further £20M+, shouldn't they be liable to pay the full amount or suffer the consequences that any other business in similar circumstances would? This is public money after all. I sincerely hope you are not advocating or supporting any arrangement whereby the tax payers of this country are likely to be short-changed due to the financial impropriety of a football club. If you consider Rangers to be a special or exceptional case, I would appreciate an explanation as to why this might be a reasonable position.

Those responsible for bringing this situation into being should be held to account. Other football clubs have the integrity and presence of mind to live within their means, or, at the very least, seek to address their financial predicaments by altering the way in which they operate. I have absolutely no confidence that those within Rangers football club and the equally culpable others that went will before them will answer for their failure to operate on a viable basis. Should members of the Scottish government collude with a scenario whereby Rangers are not duly held to account, then I will have no confidence in this administration, nor will I gift my vote to your party in the future.

Kind regards....

Dear Ms Robison

Get to f**k

Yours Sincerely etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HMRC is helpful enough to publish how it deals with CVA's.

It doesn't look good for Mr Whyte and Rangers in light of that.

Of course his highly paid insolvency advisers and the MSP's, together with Lord Sugar, might persuade the tax man to go against his stated policies...or maybe not.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/rangers-administration-cva-nae-chance/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My brief email to Ms Robison:

Dear Ms Robison

I would be grateful if you might be in a position to qualify your recent comments as to why Rangers are “crucial to the Scottish game” (reported on the BBC website on 13th February 2012).

Are Rangers any more crucial than Dumbarton (my local team), St Mirren FC (the team I have supported since I was a teenager), or any other Scottish club I might care to mention? Would you have commented to this effect had one of these clubs been faced with, what is, after all, a self-inflicted scenario brought about by gross financial imprudence? Why should HMRC reach an ‘agreement’ with Rangers FC, and what form might this take? If Rangers FC are liable for a tax bill in excess of £50M with penalties that could add a further £20M+, shouldn’t they be liable to pay the full amount or suffer the consequences that any other business in similar circumstances would? This is public money after all. I sincerely hope you are not advocating or supporting any arrangement whereby the tax payers of this country are likely to be short-changed due to the financial impropriety of a football club. If you consider Rangers to be a special or exceptional case, I would appreciate an explanation as to why this might be a reasonable position.

Those responsible for bringing this situation into being should be held to account. Other football clubs have the integrity and presence of mind to live within their means, or, at the very least, seek to address their financial predicaments by altering the way in which they operate. I have absolutely no confidence that those within Rangers football club and the equally culpable others that went will before them will answer for their failure to operate on a viable basis. Should members of the Scottish government collude with a scenario whereby Rangers are not duly held to account, then I will have no confidence in this administration, nor will I gift my vote to your party in the future.

Kind regards....

Green dot for that one good sir - saves me the trouble of writing one as you've put it far better than I could have. Will be interesting to see what response, if any, you get.

I will be most amused if she blames the BBC for twisting her words considering the subject matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, we're looking at a situation whereby no matter the amount of debt, no matter how it was racked up, no matter the setting up of dodgy offshore payment schemes, and no matter how much of a shyster and manipulator the new owner is - administration is his call, deliberately played at the appropriate moment to set himself up nicely and to allow his club to cheat their way out of a crisis built up over many years of buying success and cheating.

It's OK though - they're a football club. Not a normal business?

Someone please tell me I'm wrong.

Whyte is the means to get all this debt wiped out. He's not gonna be there in five years time, he'll hold Ibrox, Murray Park, the colours, the brand and package it up for someone else to run it as a going concern, maybe a smaller rangers starting off again in the league structure.

If Whyte keeps rangers in the SPL, he's did a great job for them. If he keeps the original company without doing administration after a soft deal with HMRC he's hit the jackpot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the thing that sickens me the most. In any other business, a company or individual who deliberately avoided tax would have the book thrown at them, and I would doubt there would be too many complaints from Joe Public.

It seems to be an acceptable practice - not just with Rangers but right through British football - that clubs are somehow able to flaunt these basic obligations because they somehow see themselves as 'institutions'. The amount of financial skulduggery that must go on behind the scenes sickens me.

It'll take one of the bigger clubs to go (or rather, for HMRC to grow a pair and go after them in the same way they would for anyone else) before anybody in the game realises that the practices apparently bankrolling the whole show are killing it. But then again, I think the interests of the average supporter were forgotten about a long time ago at these clubs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think I no longer think that Rangers will end up in liquidation now.

The basic process is that between five and ten days time, assuming any other floating charge holder doesn't appoint an administrator of their own, Craig Whyte has the option of putting Rangers into Administration. He doesn't necessarily have to do so and may choose not to should the club win the tax case. Assuming that he does so regardless, then the club would have to be out of Administration by 31 March 2012 to be able to play in Europe in the 2012/13 season. This means that any CVA will have to be passed by that point so the club can exit Admin. For a CVA to be accepted, 75% in value of the creditors have to accept it. I don't think this will be a major issue IF Rangers win the tax case, but if they lose it then it will be up to HMRC is the CVA goes ahead (as they wouldl hold the vast majority of the debt).

Most recent word on the street is that they will accept the CVA, as they are worried about what will happen if they do not. However if HMRC won the tax case and chose not to accept it, then the CVA would fail and it is almost certain that the club would be wound up after the secured creditors/floating charge holders (i.e. Craig Whyte and probably the ticket company) and preferential creditors (i.e. the players) have been paid what they are due by the administrator. The liquidator that is appointed would take any remaining funds and assets and use these to pay a dividend to the unsecured creditors, such as HMRC etc, if possible. Once that is done then the club will be dissolved.

Also, if Rangers enter Administration, then the Administrator will have 14 days for the date of appointment to decide which contracts (players and staff) he wishes to assume. Therefore expect several players with limited transfer value to not have their contact assumed and effectively become free agents. They will, of course, have a claim for unfair dismissal, which would be paid as an unsecured claim in the CVA/Liquidation. Of course, they would only get a very small amount of whatever the court awarded them, if anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whyte is the means to get all this debt wiped out. He's not gonna be there in five years time, he'll hold Ibrox, Murray Park, the colours, the brand and package it up for someone else to run it as a going concern, maybe a smaller rangers starting off again in the league structure.

If Whyte keeps rangers in the SPL, he's did a great job for them. If he keeps the original company without doing administration after a soft deal with HMRC he's hit the jackpot.

Thats it more or less. Take a bit of a thrashing off the shitty stick, clean the slate and move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^ tru dat

Even in the unlikely event of Rangers going into liquidation, a new "Rangers 2012" will be allowed straight into the SPL as "integral to the league's brand" or some such other utter hypocrisy. (code: "integral to the TV deal which will disappear without the OF derby")

We had to suffer the consequences of the demoted and ineradicable-athlete's-foot-in-a-cheap-trainer that is the "Livi" franchise in 2009-10, and it killed our league for a season. I'd imagine a re-formed full-time Rangers rubbing along on gates of 5-6k. would do much the same to the competition that season, and it's be far less pleasant as a result.

While I have no doubt that this is what the SPL will want to happen and will do everything in their power to make it so, UEFA would not allow this. This would totally undermine Financial Fair Play, and unlike when the Italian Football Federation allowed Florentia Viola to skip straight from Serie C2 to Serie B on the basis that they used to be Fiorentina, the Scottish football authorities have no power to stand up to UEFA. Oh, you're allowing a club who went of business to reform and go straight back into your top flight with no punishment whatsoever? Fine, your clubs are banned from European competition, and your national team can f**k off as well.

They go under, they restart from the Third Division.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

right heres my view

what seems to be the standard for scottish clubs going down the CVA route they have mainly been 20p to the£1

which makes the debt Craig Whyte said £35.5M which is still a MASSIVE debt of similar size to what the total debt was to lloyds (i think, could have got that wrong but?) and the lloyds debt was beginning to cripple them as it was

and that will only be 1 of the debts by the CVA

you then have to add £10M to ticketsus which at only 2 debts would still stand at £45M

these are the only two i know of figures for and thats only going by what the other scottish clubs have gotten away with , but you would assume it will be around that area

it begs the question , do Rangers FC really have £50M in assets (rounded it up on asumtion the other debts are small)

my opinion they are entirely fucked

(i am terrible at maths so ive probably fucked up my figures laugh.gif correct me if wrong)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whyte is gambling and I think he'll lose. Could HMRC trust him to pay tax in the future? His track record is terrible, most of his companies have stiffed the taxman - They'll want their pound of flesh.

If it was Tom Hunter or someone like that, the HMRC may cut some slack, but not this shyster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thats it more or less. Take a bit of a thrashing off the shitty stick, clean the slate and move on.

Craig Whyte is the toilet brush to Rangers blocked and shite crusted cludgie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whyte is gambling and I think he'll lose.

Of course he's gambling, but what with? His money, house, his job, his professional integrity :rolleyes: ?

If I were a Rangers fan **shudders**, then I reckon this would most likely be the thing that worries me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I have no doubt that this is what the SPL will want to happen and will do everything in their power to make it so, UEFA would not allow this. This would totally undermine Financial Fair Play, and unlike when the Italian Football Federation allowed Florentia Viola to skip straight from Serie C2 to Serie B on the basis that they used to be Fiorentina, the Scottish football authorities have no power to stand up to UEFA. Oh, you're allowing a club who went of business to reform and go straight back into your top flight with no punishment whatsoever? Fine, your clubs are banned from European competition, and your national team can f**k off as well.

They go under, they restart from the Third Division.

Michel Platini would certainly be concerned about Rangers FC 2012 replacing Rangers FC in the SPL but the Fiorentina precedent to which you refer to did not result in any sanctions against the Federcalcio.

If Whyte goes down the pre pack route, the demise of Rangers FC during the current season would leave a vacancy in the SPL presenting severe financial and logistical problems.

The SPLwould have to declare all this season's results involving the club void, one team would be without a game each weekend for the remainder of the season and TV contracts and sponsorship deals could be jeopardised.

The newclub Glasgow Rangers FC 2012 would have to apply for membership to the ScottishFootball League or Scottish Premier League.

To force the deal through Rangers FC 2012 would require 10 of the remaining 11 SPL clubs to vote in their favour.

If anytwo clubs vote against them, they would have to apply for membership of the SFL.

Without Rangers in the SPL other teams would have to cut costs or get new financing from their bankers which may not be straightforward. In this scenario, I would expect Rangers FC 2012 to get enough support to pick-up the place of the defunct Rangers FC.

Edited by MacWatt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who cares how it pans out. This is fucking hilarious.

As a supporter of a Scottish football club who has run itself properly and paid its way, I care how it pans out - especially if a weasel like Whyte rides into town and manages to make 49 million pounds of our money disappear in a manner Carol Vorderman and Ocean Finance could only dream about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a supporter of a Scottish football club who has run itself properly and paid its way, I care how it pans out - especially if a weasel like Whyte rides into town and manages to make 49 million pounds of our money disappear in a manner Carol Vorderman and Ocean Finance could only dream about.

Me too. I hope rangers going into admin sees Motherwell get a crack at the champions league, our pals at Dunfermline get to stay up and Whyte to eat humble pie and start a rooked rangers2012 in division 3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted this on our official forum earlier - wouldn't be at all surprised if this happens:

Rangers go into administration

Staff and players get the boot, thus lowering wage bill

Creditors - including HMRC - told they are only getting 7p in the pound

Leaner, healthier Rangers with sod all debt emerges and starts doing what the previous version of Rangers did 25 years ago.

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Whyte has been at it all along. This may well have been his plan and the numerous stories about bills going unpaid, players being punted etc is the perfect backdrop for him going to the creditors and saying "See, told you we've got no money". And if doing this clears the debts Rangers suddenly become a far more attractive proposition to investors and he can probably punt the shares for several million times what he paid for them. Wouldn't be a huge surprise if many of the creditors chasing them have Rangers fans in high positions Whyte can tell to take 7p so they can tell their grandkids they helped their club in its hour of need.

Also interesting to hear that doing this ensures Whyte has preferred creditor status - take it that means he's first in line for any cash coming to the club?

If it was that easy, Leeds United would be near the top of the Premiership again by now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The newclub Glasgow Rangers FC 2012 would have to apply for membership to the ScottishFootball League or Scottish Premier League.

To force the deal through Rangers FC 2012 would require 10 of the remaining 11 SPL clubs to vote in their favour.

If anytwo clubs vote against them, they would have to apply for membership of the SFL.

Without Rangers in the SPL other teams would have to cut costs or get new financing from their bankers which may not be straightforward. In this scenario, I would expect Rangers FC 2012 to get enough support to pick-up the place of the defunct Rangers FC.

This would however depend on that way in which Rangers FC (the footballing entity) was transferred to the new company. To be a member of SPL or SFL you must be a member of SFA - and for that a number of conditions apply. I'm pretty sure that includes 3 years audited accounts, an existing youth team, etc.

So a new company and club wouldn't fit that bill.

Transferring the 'footballing entity' asset from one company to another would, and could enable remaining in SPL... but such transfer requires SPL approval?

Buying an existing club would, again, require SPL/SFL approval... like Airdrie United... and who do they buy outside of perhaps East Stirlingshire way down in SFL3?

Every route has potential hurdles, certainly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a supporter of a Scottish football club who has run itself properly and paid its way, I care how it pans out - especially if a weasel like Whyte rides into town and manages to make 49 million pounds of our money disappear in a manner Carol Vorderman and Ocean Finance could only dream about.

You kinda wonder how someone like Stewart Gilmour who put his livelihood on the line for our club must be feeling. Having watched a procession of c***s taking their clubs into administration it must feel like he wasted his time in actually trying to run the club properly. Its not as if you get brownie points for actually running your club well, you simply get stamped on by others making a c**t of things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...