monrovianmonk Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Its entirely possible, albeit I think they start with more than -10 after todays vote. However, you would hope, they would be punished enough to make this scenario unattractive The BTC is included in the CVA. No-one will know what the p in the £ settlement figure is until this, and the court case against Collyer Bristow, are resolved. Alasdair Lamont @BBCAlLamontThat's because they were already in admin before new rules kicked in Expand Reply Retweet Favorite 19mAlasdair Lamont @BBCAlLamontTo answer the questions of a few, if Rangers do not emerge from admin b4 start of season they will suffer 10pt deduction. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEADOWXI Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 The CVA vote is scheduled for June 14. As it's my birthday can we have no more delays and please for my birthday can everybody say no to the CVA. Best Birthday Ever 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 This is HMRC's flagship test case with EBT's .. you really think they will just let go? They will pursue this relentless so the really big boys do a proper deal and cough up ... Rangers are toast .. and as one wag stated on here ... they just have not been buttered yet !!! Why do you think that? Even if they lose the BTC, lose Collyer Bristow court case, fail to get a CVA, lose an SFA appeal over the transfer embargo etc. The fact remains that Charles Green's group will buy the important assets for £5.5M and have the SPL share transferred to a NewCo. The SPL have accepted this as a legitimate means of restructuring the football club so Rangers (in some form) are more than likely going to be playing in the SPL next season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 am I right in thinking that Rangers can't transfer their league "share" mid season ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squidger Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 It was questioned on here from day 1 of administration that D+P where most likely 'at it' in some legal way. The connection to CW would suggest somehow he will profit from their involvement. The BTC is merely a side show, and all the other fair ground attractions that have been wheeled out to take peoples gaze away from the big picture. The court case against the SFA that has got has got Rangers fans back onside. The pantomine dames of Miller and Nyg and Green, exit stage left the truth about Murray and Whyte the villains and the cheeky wee scamp of TBK putting in there funny lines once in a while about this and that. We have a front line bidder, who is using others peoples money to try and arrange a CVA ( alarm bells ringing ) This new bidder also claims to have an agreement with Craig Whyte (alarm bells and sirens now) for his share of the club. The money that has been quoted for the CVA just doesn't add up, and unless these 'investors' are living in a bubble they must have some sort of reservations and cast iron guarantees over how the process must unfold. The inept footballing association has failed to find a solution for punishment and has been bloodied round the nose for going too close to the angry bear. What solution do they have left? can they tame this monster within the rules they have left, not knowing what further damage it might do in this state, or do they just put it down for the safety of everyone. Nothing has changed, the club is on the brink its just a bit more obvious now, all a bit more transparent hope your happy fat Sally. This has been hugely intriguing in its complexity and infuriating in its unpredictability and shameful and damaging to Scottish football. I was certain Rangers would survive as an SPL club at worst an SFL club. The inability to sort an outcome for the basic debts the company has ( which for a club the size of Rangers really could have been done from day 1 of admin ) leaving the BTC looming really is quite bizarre. Going back to H+D the rough scale of the debts where obvious to those all over the internet from February, yet not 1 player was reduced wages until March. Even then it was a small scale reduction when heads and wage packets should have been flying to save the club. If Rangers had limped over the finish line of the season with maybe 5 first team players and youngsters they would still possibly attractive to a bidder having saved the money to pay off creditors. This idea of looking for a possible fire sale of players now is ludicrous, as the money they will get back will probably just cover the cost of the wages they have paid out over the last few months. This whole saga is going to be a tremendous book when it comes out, and the fall out will be dripping for years to come. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expatowner Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Something horrible just occurred to me. There is nothing to stop Rangers starting next season in administration with a 10 point penalty then a few months in liquidating and forming a newco. It would take an awful lot of balls to not allow the newco to pick up from the oldco. Surely this isn't possible? I thought this was always on the cards. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Alasdair Lamont @BBCAlLamontThat's because they were already in admin before new rules kicked in Expand Reply Retweet Favorite 19mAlasdair Lamont @BBCAlLamontTo answer the questions of a few, if Rangers do not emerge from admin b4 start of season they will suffer 10pt deduction. Has this actually been confirmed though? I know the wording says a club "entering administration" but I took that to just be journalistic summarising. Has there definitely been no change to the -10pts for being in admin at the start of a new season? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 i like how they think they have won here, i refuse to even acknowledge it as a victory until someone shows me a report stating the embargo is overturned at this point its a draw hell it could even turn into a defeat should they be suspended from being a club for 12 months or even terminated (wheres yer newco with that option) but they are too thick to see that they have achieved nothing so far with yesterdays verdict other than a reconsideration of punishment I completely agree with you there as the CoS have only said the embargo was not on the list of punishments. But discretion was given to the panel to impose a punishment fit for bringing the game into disrepute. This panel is NOT a court of law and does not need to adhere what a court has ruled as it is NOT a legal matter in the legal system but a private tribunal to be dealt with inside the SFA as how the SFA see fit and proper punishment. Also are the Rangers and administrators and Green playing poker here with SFA by trying to force the SFA to give them a more lenient punishment by threatening the whole of Scottish football with FIFA sanctions ?. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorgieYaBass Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Nice. I really hope all you biased, whinging , self-serving, jealous, bitter and hypocritical no-marks are raging about this. And given your postings you are. Words cannot express how much I despise almost of you and your small-minded, hypocritical nonsense regarding Rangers. But to cheer you up: It's nothing to do with FIFA: the SFA are in more bother than Rangers. Rangers will receive the fine....not the suspension. The SPL will delay till the CVA takes effect. Rangers will be back fighting fit for the start of the season. Oh it will happen. Sickens you doesn't it....get used to it. But: The Rangers fans won't forget you miserable, spiteful and pathetic lot who call yourselves SPL fans. We'll now let you rot just as you would have had us do. It will happen. And the irony is.....with all your pathetic crap about sanctions, relegations, punishments etc.... You'll have stuffed your own clubs. You reap what you sow. GIRUY! Slaiver. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazza1910 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Just watched last night's 'Newsnight Scotland'. On the one hand, that English lawyer seemed only too keen to get Rangers off the hook and say that HMRC would accept even 2p in £ (does he not follow P&B?). Quite funny when he said he wouldn't fancy knocking down Ibrox but a waste of space otherwise. On the other hand, now following Tracey Campbell-Hynd. Very nice! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagyar Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 So were Partick Thistle thrown out the game when they took the footballing authorities to court? No 8 You disappoint me by trying to drag the lovable Jags into your rotten den. Partick Thistle DID NOT take the authorities to court, they appealed to SFA over the threat that we were to be relegated from the SPL so they could take Caley in. SFA said it was nothing to do with them. Thistle then forced a vote and we were kept in, but SPL then announced a second vote to re-look at the matter,effectively, to overturn their first vote,(Relegate Thistle). The board then looked at the legal side once more and decidedagainst any further action, on 1) The legal costs involved, and 2) The ramifications of it. So, in short, Partick Thistle NEVER took any authorities to court. Regards the possibility of taking SPL to court, the SFA wouldnt have batted an eyelid as SPL are a commercial body, and NOT a football authority. Hopethat clears a few things up for you darling!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GirondistNYC Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 1338387732[/url]' post='6287500']One of these events must happen though (either CVA or Liquidation) and according to the link in my previous post the CVA would provide something, albeit not much. Where as you rightly say liquidation would provide nothing to creditors. My link This is true, but: 1) while everyone agrees the book value is irrelevant and the real value in liquidation is much, much less (and there isn't really anything illegal about that fact) the breakup value of the assets may be higher than D&P estimate, which is reasonable but not certain. Greens asset bid should be a floor, not a binding ceiling. This might come into play. 2) lots of Bears seem to think HMRC are legally bound to accept pence in the pound in all circumstances if the liquidation value is zero. They're not. If they were running up huge post admin costs to drive liquidation values to zero and then offering a CVA value designed to be exactly 1p would be the perfect stratagey for dealing with HMRC. That would be suboptimal from the standpoint of revenue raising. Nobody can be absolutely sure what HMRC will do. It would seem to me perfectly reasonable from a policy perspective for HMRC to refuse this CVA on the basis that the derisory sums recovered are outweighed by the larger gains fom football clubs ever after taking their tax bills more seriously lest they end up like Rangers. it would also seem that the totality of conduct by Rangers over the years should be taken into account. Given the apparent fact that the CVA rolls unpaid post-admin amounts due to HMRC into the debts to be settled or pence in the pound rather than off the top I can see HMRC being less charitable if true. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTodd Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Spot the difference: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Why do you think that? Even if they lose the BTC, lose Collyer Bristow court case, fail to get a CVA, lose an SFA appeal over the transfer embargo etc. The fact remains that Charles Green's group will buy the important assets for £5.5M and have the SPL share transferred to a NewCo. The SPL have accepted this as a legitimate means of restructuring the football club so Rangers (in some form) are more than likely going to be playing in the SPL next season. If they lose the BTC, though, it would be highly unlikely for them not to fall foul of the dual contracts investigation too. If the tax man proves they have been paying players salary through the EBT and this salary isnt on the contract registered with the SPL, its hard to see how they could find otherwise. The action taken against them for, what would amount to years of systematic and systemic cheating, cannot possibly be trivial 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jie Bie Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) Why do you think that? Even if they lose the BTC, lose Collyer Bristow court case, fail to get a CVA, lose an SFA appeal over the transfer embargo etc. The fact remains that Charles Green's group will buy the important assets for £5.5M and have the SPL share transferred to a NewCo. The SPL have accepted this as a legitimate means of restructuring the football club so Rangers (in some form) are more than likely going to be playing in the SPL next season. This is what I am starting to think will happen. The SFA will ban them from the Scottish Cup for a season (as if that makes much of a difference to Rangers or Charles Green) and the newco will be playing at Ibrox without any other penalties. New players will be being signed before the window shuts too (ok so mostly it'll be free agents and cheap players, but still, they'll be parading new signings nonetheless). The CoS decision going against Rangers might have caused CG to walk away, which would have been the end for them. Instead they actually backed Rangers, meaning he is much less likely to back out now. I'd love to be convinced otherwise, but it looks like the games a bogey. Those of us who support a team in the SFL will have the strange sensation of cheering every victory that takes us closer to membership of the morally bankrupt cartel that it looks like the SPL will turn out to be. Edited May 30, 2012 by Jie Bie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobardon Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) This is what I am starting to think will happen. The SFA will ban them from the Scottish Cup for a season (as if that makes much of a difference to Rangers or Charles Green) and the newco will be playing at Ibrox without any other penalties. New players will be being signed before the window shuts too (ok so mostly it'll be free agents and cheap players, but still, they'll be parading new signings nonetheless). The CoS decision going against Rangers might have caused CG to walk away, which would have been the end for them. Instead they actually backed Rangers, meaning he is much less likely to back out now. I'd love to be convinced otherwise, but it looks like the games a bogey. It looks like those of us who support a team in the SPL will have the strange senseation of cheering every victory that takes us closer to membership of the morally bankrupt cartel that the SPL will turn out to be. I really don't get the relentless negativity of so many fans of every club bar Rangers about this situation. Ask yourself, would you want your club to be in the position they are in now, future utterly dependent on a low sum of cash pumped in by asset strippers, votes of the hapless SFA and SPL, and of course HMRC. Remember, all of those bodies basically have to do what Rangers need just for them to survive in some weakened, b*****dised form that is also likely to be stripped of current voting privilege just to exist. I'd be at my wit's end if it was my club. Best case scenario for Rangers 2012 is that they survive. What's your beef guys? ((Bast-ardised is not a swear word, by the way, mr filter!) Edited May 30, 2012 by Cobardon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broccoli Dog Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Forever delayed 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 @BBCAlLamont: No SPL update on dual contracts investigation/allegations today after all 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roverthemoon Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Just going back to RTC and the hint at people receiving EBTs not yet named. Have we any clues to who these people are? Smith and McCoist are obvious names. Who else could it be that would cause more of a stir than that? Hugh Dallas perhaps or opposition managers/chairmen? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jie Bie Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I really don't get the relentless negativity of so many fans of every club bar Rangers about this situation. Ask yourself, would you want your club to be in the position they are in now, future utterly dependent on a low sum of cash pumped in by asset strippers, votes of the hapless SFA and SPL, and of course HMRC. Remember, all of those bodies basically have to do what Rangers need just for them to survive in some weakened, b*****dised form that is also likely to be stripped of current voting privilege just to exist. What's your beef guys? ((Bast-ardised is not a swear word, by the way, mr filter!) No I wouldn't want my club to be in their position, cos we're little old Hamilton Accies with just a few thousand fans. The SFA could shut us down and there wouldn't be a lot Accies fans as group could do about it. Rangers are a different kettle of fish. A few hundred thousand fans over the country, with plenty of nutcases thrown in. Look at those two lads who got done for sending fake nail bombs to prominent Celtic supporters. Look at the the thousands of Rangers fans who marched on Hampden. Look at what the Rangers fans in Manchester did when a screen broke down FFS! Anyone who shuts Rangers down will be looking over their shoulder for at least a good few years. That's one major reason why I think they'll survive, nobody has the balls to make themselves a target of the braindead section of the OF support. To be honest I can't blame them, I wouldn't put myself in that position either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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