Thistle_do_nicely Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Yes I know a certain blogger posted the HSBC link and you are relying on his understanding of it. If Murray was guilty of tax evasion he would have been arrested. I'm a bit hazy on it - but the directors do have ultimate responsibility for the companies VAT liabilities, even if they aren't involved in day-to-day running (i.e a shadow director), and *can* go to jail but only (crucially) if the conduct amounts to criminal fraud. I *think* it means in practice that if they are caught, and can be proven to be, deliberately falsifying documentation/lying on VAT returns then they can be jailed. I don't think the use of the EBT scheme comes under criminal fraud, but someone else will hopefully know a bit more than me... I think they tend to hit companies with financial penalties and interest payments on unpaid VAT since they are given the power to literally say "this is what we think you owe us and why" to taxable persons and then the onus is on the taxable person to prove that they don't owe it, rather than bringing criminal proceedings against individual directors. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) Accountancy Age were wrong to use the word 'illegal' and have said so on Twitter: https://twitter.com/AccountancyAge/status/663722328891760640 I think that's reason enough. Oh dear, The Klans new Tax Hero who also tweeted this..."Dave King signalling, pretty clearly, that there will be a Rangers appeal rangers.co.uk/news/headlines pic.twitter.com/lxdRe8C5VA"...even though Rangers can't appeal and quickly admitted it , what a fuckwit good look pining your hopes on this fuckin rocket. Edited November 12, 2015 by THE KING 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-MAN Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 After all this time, the same simple argument remains. New Club ? ORC - "Nah Pal, it wiz the Company that wiz liqwadated. We wuz relegated cuz ah they scum and you sheep shaggin basturts" So you are the same Club then ? PAY YOUR FUCKING DEBTS THEN. Only then do we "move on" Really is that simple. Noone outwith Celtic and the MSM misses you, if the takeover was fraudulent and you disappear, who actually cares ?. Only concern is what the brain dead, cavemen that follow you each week will do with the spare time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Lets pick up on the bit about demotion. You admit he was wrong, Sevco weren't demoted, so remind uall how yous ended up in div.3 again. We didn't end up in Div 3 again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggie_Murray7 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 ‘I think we should be sorry - and I certainly am sorry,’ King told Sportsmail. ‘We owe both the Rangers fans and the Scottish footballing public an apology. ‘Some of the representations made have betrayed more of a victim status. But I think somebody needs to apologise. ‘Clearly, that is not for Charles Green to do. But I am happy to say that I really believe we should be saying sorry and I think there is something to be sorry about. ‘And as a former director when these things were going on, I am minded to do so. ‘With regard to EBTs, I was on the board so I have to take some responsibility. ‘And I follow the logic of the argument that if we lose the tax case then we probably gained some competitive advantage. ‘I believe that, on behalf of myself and most of the board members who were with me and probably agree with me, that we should apologise for that. ‘I know that the Murray Group might not say that, because it might be tantamount to admitting it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Back to the days when any Rangers fans post is pounced on by dozens of Ds and thems, all back slapping each others posts. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle_do_nicely Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 ‘I think we should be sorry - and I certainly am sorry,’ King told Sportsmail. ‘We owe both the Rangers fans and the Scottish footballing public an apology. ‘Some of the representations made have betrayed more of a victim status. But I think somebody needs to apologise. ‘Clearly, that is not for Charles Green to do. But I am happy to say that I really believe we should be saying sorry and I think there is something to be sorry about. ‘And as a former director when these things were going on, I am minded to do so. ‘With regard to EBTs, I was on the board so I have to take some responsibility. ‘And I follow the logic of the argument that if we lose the tax case then we probably gained some competitive advantage. ‘I believe that, on behalf of myself and most of the board members who were with me and probably agree with me, that we should apologise for that. ‘I know that the Murray Group might not say that, because it might be tantamount to admitting it. Fair changed his tune, hasn't he? It's almost as if he has absolutely no credibility or something. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 @keithlaxon So, we all ready for another Ashley v SFA court case? #developing -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Ok, smart arse. Div.2 Tell me, why were you put in that league? My answer wasn't based on your getting the division wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 deflect, deflect, deflect...lol There is no deflection. I'm simply waiting for you to ask a coherent question and I'll attempt to answer. It may take a while..... -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.j Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 There is no deflection. I'm simply waiting for you to ask a coherent question and I'll attempt to answer. It may take a while..... For you to answer it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 There is no deflection. I'm simply waiting for you to ask a coherent question and I'll attempt to answer. It may take a while..... Three dots in an ellipsis fukwit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingrodent Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) I'm assuming that Dave King is giving the same message to the public that he is to the football authorities, just because sending a different one would weaken his position. And these football phone-in level pronouncements are surely the best case that he and his public relations team can make, or he'd be making better ones, or at least paying PR people to make better ones. And the message is: f**k you, come and have a go if you think you're hard enough. You don't need me to tell you that this is a fairly desperate response. It's a direct challenge to the other clubs' willingness to deal with Rangers' cheating, and a blunt middle finger to the football authorities. The really horrible thought here is that King knows that he can say whatever he likes, and nothing will be done about it, ever. Because he knows that there's no appetite at all within the game to actually deal with corruption head on, because everyone who could is scared of the consequences. The other interpretation is that King is absolutely desperate, because the forces of justice are closing in. I won't hold my breath for that. Edited November 12, 2015 by flyingrodent 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 For you to answer it? That depends on the Q, of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 That depends on the Q, of course. Is it 2 +2? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Dodd Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 No it's 2x4 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 It's a direct challenge to the other clubs' willingness to deal with Rangers' cheating, and a blunt middle finger to the football authorities. This is at the nub of the problem - the footballing authorities are making Pontius Pilate look incisive and effective. No football rules were broken by the use of EBTs Our financial generosity eventually led to our administration and we had the appropriate points-docking Our use of side-letters was dealt with by LNS and we were fined. There is actually nothing else to be said but the vacuum is being filled by spleen-venters with keyboards while the authorities hide behind the sofa. I, personally, don't think DK should have issued that statement but the real problem is football governance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) I'm assuming that Dave King is giving the same message to the public that he is to the football authorities, just because sending a different one would weaken his position. And these football phone-in level pronouncements are surely the best case that he and his public relations team can make, or he'd be making better ones, or at least paying PR people to make better ones. And the message is: f**k you, come and have a go if you think you're hard enough. You don't need me to tell you that this is a fairly desperate response. It's a direct challenge to the other clubs' willingness to deal with Rangers' cheating, and a blunt middle finger to the football authorities. The really horrible thought here is that King knows that he can say whatever he likes, and nothing will be done about it, ever. Because he knows that there's no appetite at all within the game to actually deal with corruption head on, because everyone who could is scared of the consequences. The other interpretation is that King is absolutely desperate, because the forces of justice are closing in. I won't hold my breath for that. Pretty fair analysis....tho of course we are now living in a climate where sport corruption is being addressed head on eg athletics doping, cycling doping and fifa. ....well everything fifa.....suppose since police Scotland hasn't made an arrest then all parties concerned must be innocent n allowed to keep their titles......lance won on the bike....ben won on track etc..... Edited November 12, 2015 by dogmc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 This is at the nub of the problem - the footballing authorities are making Pontius Pilate look incisive and effective. No football rules were broken by the use of EBTs Our financial generosity eventually led to our administration and we had the appropriate points-docking Our use of side-letters was dealt with by LNS and we were fined. There is actually nothing else to be said but the vacuum is being filled by spleen-venters with keyboards while the authorities hide behind the sofa. I, personally, don't think DK should have issued that statement but the real problem is football governance. Eh, The OldCo was fined. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsr Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 There is no deflection. I'm simply waiting for you to ask a coherent question and I'll attempt to answer. It may take a while..... And it won't be a coherent response when it comes... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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