stonedsailor Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 On you go Norman. How do internal combustion engines start? On fucking air? To be fair all the diesel engines I have sailed with have air start valves. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete's Frontier Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 So the peepul are now happy King will be making no investment? If he can't recover the securitised assets and the 25% of retail from MASH with his own loan on the same terms it tells me 100% he is not going to provide unsecured monies, and in all likelihood he has no liquid funds. Good news for my club. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podlie Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 So the peepul are now happy King will be making no investment? If he can't recover the securitised assets and the 25% of retail from MASH with his own loan on the same terms it tells me 100% he is not going to provide unsecured monies, and in all likelihood he has no liquid funds. Good news for my club. You loose to them in the play offs again................St Mirren will bounce straight back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Nederlander Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 A jet engine does not need a starter motor to make it work, it needs air to make it work and this is supplied by spinning the turbines first but the starter motor does not switch the engine on like cars. I'm slightly confused by your answer - the starter motor is doing exactly the same job in the Aircraft as it is the Car is it not ? ie turning the thing and compressing the air/fuel mix prior to ignition !? I think this is the crux of the dispute, both parties are right in their own way but a starter motor does not start the jet engine itself. it's sole purpose is to spin the turbines before the engine itself is finally switched on by the pilot. Yes the starter motor is part of a gas turbine but it does not in any way start up and switch on the jet engine itself, that's the pilots job when the turbines have reached a specific speed producing enough compressed air into the combustion chamber before the actual engine itself has been switched on My understanding is that the starter motor is stopped once the engine is up and running - exactly like when you stop turning the key in the car once the engine is up and running. So therefore a jet engine does not need a starter motor at all under certain conditions. Which certain conditions ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I'm slightly confused by your answer - the starter motor is doing exactly the same job in the Aircraft as it is the Car is it not ? ie turning the thing and compressing the air/fuel mix prior to ignition !? My understanding is that the starter motor is stopped once the engine is up and running - exactly like when you stop turning the key in the car once the engine is up and running. Which certain conditions ? Ned I asked for that didn't I ? 1, I'm not an expert but the mechanics are different although the principal is the same in modern engines. I have lost the Uni geeks webpage about jet engines. He basically describe how a jet engine could start up without a starter motor by burning fuel to create a continuous airflow that would spin the the exhaust blades to then start the intake blades to feed the combustion chamber with more air so it can then exponentially speed up and was the basic principal of jet propulsion. There is no need for a starter motor if fuel isn't an issue. A starter motor in the modern world is more efficient and more faster than using fuel alone to get the jet engine to a point it's blades are rotating fast enough to create enough thrust to make the aircraft move. The starter motor in a modern jet engine still rotates the blades of the turbine after the engine has been switched off to help cool the engine down, can you really still call it a starter motor then when it is being used as a fan to cool the combustion chambers after the engine has been switched off ? And lastly tae fcuk wi starter motors and jet engines ffs, 3 years ago Rangers died and how I laughed and laughed and laughed and did a Shull and needed new pampers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Nederlander Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 1, I'm not an expert but the mechanics are different although the principal is the same in modern engines. I have lost the Uni geeks webpage about jet engines. He basically describe how a jet engine could start up without a starter motor by burning fuel to create a continuous airflow that would spin the the exhaust blades to then start the intake blades to feed the combustion chamber with more air so it can then exponentially speed up and was the basic principal of jet propulsion. There is no need for a starter motor if fuel isn't an issue. A starter motor in the modern world is more efficient and more faster than using fuel alone to get the jet engine to a point it's blades are rotating fast enough to create enough thrust to make the aircraft move. A car engine does not need a starter motor under certain conditions. The starter motor in a modern jet engine still rotates the blades of the turbine after the engine has been switched off to help cool the engine down, can you really still call it a starter motor then when it is being used as a fan to cool the combustion chambers after the engine has been switched off ? Well yes, since that's exactly what it's called. It would appear that Kinky is owed an apology. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik's tongue Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Combustion engines. Doink's busy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weirdcal Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 It would appear that Kinky is owed an apology. He's not the only one, I know the BRALT goes on tangents but this was ridiculous. Kept thinking my phone was showing some sort of engineer forum with the same user names 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 A car engine does not need a starter motor under certain conditions. Well yes, since that's exactly what it's called. It would appear that Kinky is owed an apology. Nah he doesn't, he was right that modern jets engines have a starter motor. The ensuing pish that followed which by the way had me involved by name even when I wasn't online by Kinky himself appeared to regress in whether a jet engine is started by a starter motor or by compressed air. From googling a bit there was in fact a process in starting up a jet engine which involved using a starter motor to spin the blades in the turbine. This isn't the engine being switched on at this particular point but preceding to engage the engine itself to be then switched on, the starter motor can spin the blades for eternity but the engine is fucking deid as a Do Do unless someone presses or turns the switch which then starts the engine. So at which point does it take for the button to be pressed, switched or moved to say the engine has been started ?, when the fans have been spun by a starter motor or when the pilot does the necessary engagement to initiate the engine to start ? Personally I couldn't give a fcuk but it has been fun. Both are right in their own way but the engine gets started only when the pilot is satisfied the starter motor has done it's job so he can then flip whatever to then start the jet engine itself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podlie Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Nah he doesn't, he was right that modern jets engines have a starter motor. The ensuing pish that followed which by the way had me involved by name even when I wasn't online by Kinky himself appeared to regress in whether a jet engine is started by a starter motor or by compressed air. From googling a bit there was in fact a process in starting up a jet engine which involved using a starter motor to spin the blades in the turbine. This isn't the engine being switched on at this particular point but preceding to engage the engine itself to be then switched on, the starter motor can spin the blades for eternity but the engine is fucking deid as a Do Do unless someone presses or turns the switch which then starts the engine. So at which point does it take for the button to be pressed, switched or moved to say the engine has been started ?, when the fans have been spun by a starter motor or when the pilot does the necessary engagement to initiate the engine to start ? Personally I couldn't give a fcuk but it has been fun. Both are right in their own way but the engine gets started only when the pilot is satisfied the starter motor has done it's job so he can then flip whatever to then start the jet engine itself. Which shaft does it start? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Nederlander Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 The ensuing pish that followed which by the way had me involved by name even when I wasn't online by Kinky himself appeared to regress in whether a jet engine is started by a starter motor or by compressed air. From googling a bit there was in fact a process in starting up a jet engine which involved using a starter motor to spin the blades in the turbine. This isn't the engine being switched on at this particular point but preceding to engage the engine itself to be then switched on, the starter motor can spin the blades for eternity but the engine is fucking deid as a Do Do unless someone presses or turns the switch which then starts the engine. So at which point does it take for the button to be pressed, switched or moved to say the engine has been started ?, when the fans have been spun by a starter motor or when the pilot does the necessary engagement to initiate the engine to start ? Just to be clear - and I'm sure you already understand it - all Gas Turbines use Starter Motors it's just that the Starter Motors themselves are powered by different means - Electricity, Air or Hydraulics. And these starter motors rotate the entire gubbings of the turbine (not a just a fan at the intake) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weirdcal Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 http://m.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/marked-decline-in-scottish-football-hate-crimes-1-3800968looks like hate crimes are down year on year, more anti catholic hate than anti protestant... Oh and a reason they are unsure its working that adds the Scotsman to the list 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I preferred this one. ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1434153199.544242.jpg I wonder how that boycott of Burton is going 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 BLUE VERMIN F.C. ( DECEASED ) HAPPY ANNIVERSARY FANNIES -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.j Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 http://m.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/marked-decline-in-scottish-football-hate-crimes-1-3800968looks like hate crimes are down year on year, more anti catholic hate than anti protestant... Oh and a reason they are unsure its working that adds the Scotsman to the list Hate crimes are down since Rangers died? Who'd have thought! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p&b is a disgrace Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Are they dead yet? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Dodd Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Just to be clear - and I'm sure you already understand it - all Gas Turbines use Starter Motors it's just that the Starter Motors themselves are powered by different means - Electricity, Air or Hydraulics. And these starter motors rotate the entire gubbings of the turbine (not a just a fan at the intake) To put this to bed. And this is the method used on the jumbo jet that was mentioned. http://engineering.mit.edu/ask/how-do-blades-jet-engine-start-turning 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 A car engine does not need a starter motor under certain conditions. Well yes, since that's exactly what it's called. It would appear that Kinky is owed an apology. Apology? Not when his first post - pre-deflection and obfuscation - was arrant nonsense. In other words, he was wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Initially from this. To whether or not a jet engine needs a starter motor to start up the jet engine. A jet engine does not need a starter motor to make it work, it needs air to make it work and this is supplied by spinning the turbines first but the starter motor does not switch the engine on like cars. I think this is the crux of the dispute, both parties are right in their own way but a starter motor does not start the jet engine itself. it's sole purpose is to spin the turbines before the engine itself is finally switched on by the pilot. Yes the starter motor is part of a gas turbine but it does not in any way start up and switch on the jet engine itself, that's the pilots job when the turbines have reached a specific speed producing enough compressed air into the combustion chamber before the actual engine itself has been switched on. A jet engine needs a source to spin the turbines first and through some googling there are other ways to spin the turbines without a starter motor. So therefore a jet engine does not need a starter motor at all under certain conditions. Group Captain HBQC ...... -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Fitlike Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Of course he was right and of course he is owe many apologies, but this is P & B and TK is a Rangers fan, under those circumstances folk on here are daft enough to claim that black is white and that Rangers died FFS. Black is black White is white Rangers died. True story - it was in all the papers exactly 3 years ago. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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