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Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!


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Sorry MT...Of course it was not aimed at you. You maybe obsessed and might take yourself a little too seriously at times but you are a million miles away from WKR and the level of bitterness and hatred that oozes out of his every post

Shit. I really have surrendered this WKR Lite title haven't I?

To be honest, I feel I've been treated pretty shabbily. Nobody sent me a letter or anything. I just turn up one day to find Mikey Wellfan in my seat.

Well, I hope he treats the office with the respect it deserves. I wish him well in his new post, but he might be best to remember that he's merely a custodian.

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Aye, would class him as a bigot of the worst kind. He has a predilection for the use of the stereotype and its application to one particular set of fans. Why the worst kind of bigot..................because he is in denial that he has a problem.

"I have always hated the arrogance and bigotry associated with both of the Sisters, but accepted that some decent people may follow them for the right footballing reasons.

Since the eruption of this shitstorm, I have had to revise this.

There are NO decent rangers fans. No decent human being can condone criminality and injustice on this scale. Anyone with the least shadow of a conscience would have walked away when the scale of their behaviour became public - no longer deniable as a papist conspiracy or tarrier lies. Those that are left? Scum, every one of them."

He is what he attempts to deny.

I'll stand by that - even though you haven't shown the original quote...

To condone the amount of cheating, corruption and lies which led to the death of rangers and the birth of their successor club, and then to carry on as if the theft, cheating and swindling of the creditors never happened is downright disgraceful.

For HT (I think it was), and all the Sleuth - note the first paragraph. Things, IMHO, changed massively in the aftermath of rangers' being caught. No humility, no contrition, no acknowledgment that there should be any blame whatsoever attached to the club. "A big boy (insert preferred scapegoat here) did it and ran away".

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Shit. I really have surrendered this WKR Lite title haven't I?

To be honest, I feel I've been treated pretty shabbily. Nobody sent me a letter or anything. I just turn up one day to find Mikey Wellfan in my seat.

Well, I hope he treats the office with the respect it deserves. I wish him well in his new post, but he might be best to remember that he's merely a custodian.

TBH i have been bitterly disappointed in both AB and yourself. Its almost as if you just don't care enough anymore .... You really do need to up your game. ApDon and Mikeywellfan have left you in their wake.

Get it sorted!!!!

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I'll stand by that - even though you haven't shown the original quote...

To condone the amount of cheating, corruption and lies which led to the death of rangers and the birth of their successor club, and then to carry on as if the theft, cheating and swindling of the creditors never happened is downright disgraceful.

For HT (I think it was), and all the Sleuth - note the first paragraph. Things, IMHO, changed massively in the aftermath of rangers' being caught. No humility, no contrition, no acknowledgment that there should be any blame whatsoever attached to the club. "A big boy (insert preferred scapegoat here) did it and ran away".

I'm loving the use of the classic buzzwords Norm, that'll be sure to get the masses flocking to your side.

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Shit. I really have surrendered this WKR Lite title haven't I?

The WKR lite tag was more for your reaction to it than anything else.

"How dare you class me the same as that weirdo, i'm nothing like him" Norman was not amused.

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I'll stand by that - even though you haven't shown the original quote...

To condone the amount of cheating, corruption and lies which led to the death of rangers and the birth of their successor club, and then to carry on as if the theft, cheating and swindling of the creditors never happened is downright disgraceful.

For HT (I think it was), and all the Sleuth - note the first paragraph. Things, IMHO, changed massively in the aftermath of rangers' being caught. No humility, no contrition, no acknowledgment that there should be any blame whatsoever attached to the club. "A big boy (insert preferred scapegoat here) did it and ran away".

Who condoned the Cheating on here? Who condoned the Corruption on here? Who condoned the lies on here? Who carried on as if the theft , cheating and swindling of creditors never happened on here?

None of that applies to any Rangers poster i have read on Pie and Bovril. To save you the trouble here is a direct quote from myself 2 days after the club went into Administration....'I honestly cant see any justice in this at all towards the other clubs in the league. I cannot find the words to express how badly i feel about this whole scenario but as a football supporter i just feel a 10 point deduction is just a joke...a fucking joke!!! I personally feel relegation to the 3rd division is an apt punishment..

Now compare that to the views of supporters of other Scottish clubs when the clubs they support have gone into administration. There are supporters on here high fiving and back slapping because their own club managed to put through a 0p in the £ CVA. Do you have the same feelings of hatred for that particular club and their support? What about a certain Dundee club that has been in administration twice and got off relatively lightly in my opinion. They certainly were not relegated to the SFL3 as i believed Rangers should have been.

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Aye, would class him as a bigot of the worst kind. He has a predilection for the use of the stereotype and its application to one particular set of fans. Why the worst kind of bigot..................because he is in denial that he has a problem.

"I have always hated the arrogance and bigotry associated with both of the Sisters, but accepted that some decent people may follow them for the right footballing reasons.

Since the eruption of this shitstorm, I have had to revise this.

There are NO decent rangers fans. No decent human being can condone criminality and injustice on this scale. Anyone with the least shadow of a conscience would have walked away when the scale of their behaviour became public - no longer deniable as a papist conspiracy or tarrier lies. Those that are left? Scum, every one of them."

He is what he attempts to deny.

He's worse than any old firm fan i've ever met.

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Who condoned the Cheating on here?(1) Who condoned the Corruption on here?(2) Who condoned the lies on here?(3) Who carried on as if the theft , cheating and swindling of creditors never happened on here? (4)

None of that applies to any Rangers poster i have read on Pie and Bovril. To save you the trouble here is a direct quote from myself 2 days after the club went into Administration....'I honestly cant see any justice in this at all towards the other clubs in the league. I cannot find the words to express how badly i feel about this whole scenario but as a football supporter i just feel a 10 point deduction is just a joke...a fucking joke!!! I personally feel relegation to the 3rd division is an apt punishment..

Now compare that to the views of supporters of other Scottish clubs when the clubs they support have gone into administration. There are supporters on here high fiving and back slapping because their own club managed to put through a 0p in the £ CVA. Do you have the same feelings of hatred for that particular club and their support? What about a certain Dundee club that has been in administration twice and got off relatively lightly in my opinion. They certainly were not relegated to the SFL3 as i believed Rangers should have been.

1. "54 titles" (there's even at least one fuckwit on here claiming 56,ffs). There's also a poster who has a smug wee quote from Vicky as his sig admitting that they cheated.

2. "We're the same club". So name the clubs who took part in the vote to allow the new team into the SPL?

3. " I personally feel relegation to the 3rd division is an apt punishment.. " - from your own post above - they weren't relegated, were they?

4. See point (1) above.

Name me another club which has stolen millions from the Treasury - another club which went spectacularly tits up leaving even half as much debt behind them.

My club were actually having quite a decent spell while your old mob were cheating their way to success. An extra league placing or two would have meant a substantial difference in prize money. The same applies to all clubs playing in the SPL during that time.

To continue to follow the club at ibrox, and to claim that they are the same rangers who won those titles and cups, is to condone the behaviour of the old club. I fail to see how anyone with a shred of decency can do so. And, for the avoidance of doubt, this would be my opinion if Aberdeen, Hibs, or even Killie had behaved in a similar fashion. That's not bigotry, that's simply a sense of right and wrong. That it was a vile institution such as rangers which was caught simply made the initial collapse more satisfying, and the subsequent attempts at whitewashing much, much more distasteful.

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The problem is that you take this moral high ground against one club and one club only.

I do not see you carrying on this vandetta against the likes of Hearts.

Lets try to pick 1 part of your argument and stick to it without divergence.

You say "Name me another club which has stolen millions from the Treasury - another club which went spectacularly tits up leaving even half as much debt behind them. "

You also say "To continue to follow the club at ibrox, and to claim that they are the same rangers who won those titles and cups, is to condone the behaviour of the old club. I fail to see how anyone with a shred of decency can do so"

If I take Hearts in isolation, how much debt did they leave behind?, Hearts won trophies during this spell, tell me, all those Hearts fans still following their club to this day, are you also suggesting they do not have a shred of decency? I do not see all of these Hearts fans suggesting that their '5 - 1' victory over Hibs was tainted and won purely by cheating, nor do I see you doing likewise to be honest.

Now remember this is not my argument, the points above are your points that simply apply to another club. You will also notice that I am not having any digs at you in the post above, please try to do the same.

It would be good if your reply stuck to the points raised above without introducing things which you might think are relevant but really aren't.

Oh, I've got to stick to your points, when you've singularly failed to address mine? Seems fair...

Did Hearts make a deliberate business decision to cease paying due taxes in order to carry on trading?

What you fail to recognise, Tedi, is the difference between:

Accruing debt through overspending and/or poor business practise, or through changing economic circumstances which a club has no control over - an example being the change in TV income a few years ago, which caught out many SPL clubs, mine included.

AND:

A conscious decision not to pay taxes due, according to the law.

I would like to see anyone from your camp admit that the club was guilty of this. Not Craig Whyte, the club.

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Of course it was the club that was guilty, but it is always individuals that make these choices, that is why the authorities go after individual directors.

You did not address my points at all though.

I asked how much debt Hearts left behind, this is completely relevant to your point above about as all the other clubs were also affected by the TV income deal and changing economic times, many of them accrued serviceable levels of debt and I accept that this was perfectly ok, Hearts levels where well in excess of this, surely you have to agree on this.

Dear God, but you're hard work. Let's try again, shall we?

Hearts were spectacularly badly run - as were Leeds, Portsmouth and quite a few other examples you've been fond of bringing up. When they collapsed, of course there were creditors left high and dry.

Your old club knew they were dying, and had no chance of survival. Knowing this, they continued to run up debt, attempting to sign players they knew they couldn't afford, and here's the bit you seem to have trouble with:

Made a conscious decision to stop paying taxes which were legally due. That is, committed an offence against the law of the land.

They didn't run out of money to pay their taxes - they stopped paying their taxes and diverted the monies due into a vain attempt to keep their business alive. All the while continuing to run up debts with suppliers and service providers which they knew would never be paid.

The amount of debt left by Hearts, or any other club, is entirely irrelevant to the rangers situation. I personally feel uncomfortable about the deal which cleared a lot of Killie's debts, but while I would level many criticisms at MJ, criminal behaviour is not yet one of them.

Where your old club and Hearts' situations* really diverge, of course, is in the fans' reaction to their club's travails. I said at the time, and I'll say it again - if the fans of rangers - and the club itself - had been less triumphalist and arrogant, they had a chance at some kind of acceptance. That ship has well and truly sailed.

*And Motherwell, and Dundee, and Dunfermline, etc.

Edited by WhiteRoseKillie
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1. "54 titles" (there's even at least one fuckwit on here claiming 56,ffs). There's also a poster who has a smug wee quote from Vicky as his sig admitting that they cheated.

2. "We're the same club". So name the clubs who took part in the vote to allow the new team into the SPL?

3. " I personally feel relegation to the 3rd division is an apt punishment.. " - from your own post above - they weren't relegated, were they?

4. See point (1) above.

Name me another club which has stolen millions from the Treasury - another club which went spectacularly tits up leaving even half as much debt behind them.

My club were actually having quite a decent spell while your old mob were cheating their way to success. An extra league placing or two would have meant a substantial difference in prize money. The same applies to all clubs playing in the SPL during that time.

To continue to follow the club at ibrox, and to claim that they are the same rangers who won those titles and cups, is to condone the behaviour of the old club. I fail to see how anyone with a shred of decency can do so. And, for the avoidance of doubt, this would be my opinion if Aberdeen, Hibs, or even Killie had behaved in a similar fashion. That's not bigotry, that's simply a sense of right and wrong. That it was a vile institution such as rangers which was caught simply made the initial collapse more satisfying, and the subsequent attempts at whitewashing much, much more distasteful.

All great whataboutery...well below average whataboutery. The point is i wanted Rangers relegated to the SFL 3 for their financial cheating. I ll use Dunfermline just as an example here. Their own fans celebrated quite openly on here a CVA that awarded the creditors ZERO...NOTHING. Now why not the same animosity towards them?

As for your claim that you would feel the same if it was club X.Y,Z...The point i am making is that clearly is not the case.

As for the 54 titles and still going strong. Of course that is fact...I am not interested in your twisted logic. I prefer to take the evidence for that fact from the SFA..UEFA..FIFA...The people who actually make these decisions

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I would like to see anyone from your camp admit that the club was guilty of this. Not Craig Whyte, the club.

I take it i am in Tedis Camp?

I repeat, as you obviously choose to ignore anything that might contradict your viewpoint, i said Rangers (the club) deserved relegated for their financial cheating. Not Craig Whyte....The Club!

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All great whataboutery...well below average whataboutery. The point is i wanted Rangers relegated to the SFL 3 for their financial cheating. I ll use Dunfermline just as an example here. Their own fans celebrated quite openly on here a CVA that awarded the creditors ZERO...NOTHING. Now why not the same animosity towards them?

As for your claim that you would feel the same if it was club X.Y,Z...The point i am making is that clearly is not the case.

As for the 54 titles and still going strong. Of course that is fact...I am not interested in your twisted logic. I prefer to take the evidence for that fact from the SFA..UEFA..FIFA...The people who actually make these decisions

You appear to share more than matchday experiences with Tedi.

Of course fans of Dunfermline, Hearts and others celebrated when their clubs managed to survive. Now,

1. Which of these clubs stole from the Treasury in order to survive? and,

2. Do you feel that rangers fans did anything constructive in order to avoid the club's death?

You show me any other club which stooped to criminality in order to survive, and I'll castigate them just the same.

And just to clarify your revisionism:

1. No-one was relegated to D3. A new club was admitted.

2. Your old club was not "financially cheating". They were stealing. From the Queen, at that.

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1. "54 titles" (there's even at least one fuckwit on here claiming 56,ffs). There's also a poster who has a smug wee quote from Vicky as his sig admitting that they cheated.

2. "We're the same club". So name the clubs who took part in the vote to allow the new team into the SPL?

3. " I personally feel relegation to the 3rd division is an apt punishment.. " - from your own post above - they weren't relegated, were they?

4. See point (1) above.

Name me another club which has stolen millions from the Treasury - another club which went spectacularly tits up leaving even half as much debt behind them.

My club were actually having quite a decent spell while your old mob were cheating their way to success. An extra league placing or two would have meant a substantial difference in prize money. The same applies to all clubs playing in the SPL during that time.

To continue to follow the club at ibrox, and to claim that they are the same rangers who won those titles and cups, is to condone the behaviour of the old club. I fail to see how anyone with a shred of decency can do so. And, for the avoidance of doubt, this would be my opinion if Aberdeen, Hibs, or even Killie had behaved in a similar fashion. That's not bigotry, that's simply a sense of right and wrong. That it was a vile institution such as rangers which was caught simply made the initial collapse more satisfying, and the subsequent attempts at whitewashing much, much more distasteful.

But to be fair you said there was no humility, no contrition etc. No 8 clearly displayed both those qualities in the immediate aftermath, at a time nearly all Bears had unplugged their wireless routers and were crying themselves to sleep.

I have to admit to enjoying Rangers demise for various reasons, but there are some Rangers fans out there who are suitably embarrassed. Though the majority dont seem that bothered, as per the swift and distasteful clamour to keep banging on about 54 titles and Rangers then, Rangers now, Rangers forever. That certainly showed where the priorities lay for many.

But no matter what's go on between you and No 8, you need to acknowledge he was positively contrite following liquidation.

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IIRC, people generally laughed much longer and harder at Leeds going bust than they did when the same happened at, say, Portsmouth.

Was that because people generally just had an irrational hatred of Leeds, or were there other factors involved?

If you can answer that one truthfully, then the reasons why people generally think Rangers are a far worse bunch of cheats and scumbos than Hearts will become immediately apparent.

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IIRC, people generally laughed much longer and harder at Leeds going bust than they did when the same happened at, say, Portsmouth.

Was that because people generally just had an irrational hatred of Leeds, or were there other factors involved?

If you can answer that one truthfully, then the reasons why people generally think Rangers are a far worse bunch of cheats and scumbos than Hearts will become immediately apparent.

There was certainly a "Dirty Leeds" factor, but another major factor was the involvement of Uncle Ken. Portsmouth had never (in living memory, at least) had the kind of success enjoyed at Leeds, so the schadenfreude factor was lower.

As I said, the main difference between rangers and Hearts is the difference between financial overconfidence and criminality.

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I would of course in retort say that you much harder work than I could ever wish to be.

The deliberate non payment of non taxes was over a relatively short period of time and attributable to a reckless and short lived regime, I admitted the club was guilty, for you to say that I am struggling with this is incorrect.

However this does not take explain your original point.

'another club which went spectacularly tits up leaving even half as much debt behind them.'

Hearts were one such club.

So despite your attempts to say they are irrelevant to Rangers, they are entirely relevant to this specific point that you made.

Jesus, calm down and your posts may make more sense. To pick an example, wtf does "non payment of non taxes" mean?

Colloquially, the expression "tits up" would suggest that the club died, or ceased to exist. I say this in clarification, as despite your word salad above, I know that you need things explaining to you in simple terms. Hearts exited the end-of-life process before they could be described as an ex-club. Your lot didn't.

Tits-up Meaning

Inoperative; broken. The term is also used to mean fallen over (on one's back)

Origin

This is a 20th century phrase, probably of military origin. There's certainly no mention of it in print prior to WWII. It has been suggested that the term derives from the behaviour of aeroplanes' altitude indicators, which turn upside down when faulty and display an inverted 'W' resembling a pair of breasts. There's no real evidence to support this speculation and it seems more likely that the phrase is just a vulgar alternative to the earlier 'belly-up', which has the same meaning.

'Belly-up' is an allusion to fish, which float that way when 'dead in the water'.

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But to be fair you said there was no humility, no contrition etc. No 8 clearly displayed both those qualities in the immediate aftermath, at a time nearly all Bears had unplugged their wireless routers and were crying themselves to sleep.

I have to admit to enjoying Rangers demise for various reasons, but there are some Rangers fans out there who are suitably embarrassed. Though the majority dont seem that bothered, as per the swift and distasteful clamour to keep banging on about 54 titles and Rangers then, Rangers now, Rangers forever. That certainly showed where the priorities lay for many.

But no matter what's go on between you and No 8, you need to acknowledge he was positively contrite following liquidation.

No.8 reckoned his club should be relegated. I'm struggling to see where the contrition and humility come in. Sure, he came out with that before many berrz even showed their face on here, but why does this suggest humility? Contrition?

Leaving aside the point that they were not, in the end, relegated, I have seen very few suggestions that the club should not claim all the titles accumulated by the old lot. On the other side, the parroting of "54 and going strong", "then. now, forever", and such are, as you say, highly prevalent on here and elsewhere - No. 8 being one of those who is not averse to these and other, even less palatable, catchphrases.

There are indeed rangers fans who are suitably embarrassed - I know a couple myself, who are getting a bit fed-up with the one "continuity berr" in my social circle. the ones you see online, I can only assume, are not representative...

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Wow

I am perfectly calm and my post above made perfect sense.

I also tried to have a normal conversation without digs or references to your intelligence, this is obviously beyond you, backed into a corner and unable or unwilling to address your own points your true personality shines through, you really are an absolute mentalist.

At least I tried.

I would of course in retort say that you much harder work than I could ever wish to be.

The deliberate non payment of non taxes was over a relatively short period of time and attributable to a reckless and short lived regime, I admitted the club was guilty, for you to say that I am struggling with this is incorrect.

However this does not take explain your original point.

'another club which went spectacularly tits up leaving even half as much debt behind them.'

Hearts were one such club.

So despite your attempts to say they are irrelevant to Rangers, they are entirely relevant to this specific point that you made.

Perfect sense....

Aye, OK. :lol::lol::lol:

And then the personal digs - justified in Tedi's addled wee heid.

Mibbes you should ask SNAFU where he gets his crayons...

I'll try again - one last time - Hearts* fucked up, rangers stole.

*And Dundee, Dunfermline, Leeds, Middlesborough, Scarborough.... And a whole list of clubs who didn't feel the need to steal from the taxpayer.

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