mid-table Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Even if you take the TUPE date that is scary, and with Hartley gone too, that would move him up one.If you used the TUPE date then he would move above Ian Little as well, who has since been replaced by Colin Cameron. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phasma ex machina Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 If you used the TUPE date then he would move above Ian Little as well, who has since been replaced by Colin Cameron. And he should've been emptied eons ago, even before the TUPE.... TSFM had a boy at the 'do' today......yer Lord replaced indeed... John Clarke TSFM ohn clarke says: February 24, 2014 at 7:32 pm 9 0 Rate This Nothing of any great substance to report from today’s UTTT hearing. I was there for 9.30 , but the kick-off wasn’t till 10.00. That gave time for a little bit of socialising: I didn’t meet the Grant Russell chap from STV, but only a chap from the ‘Sun’, and a director from Murray Group, and Mr Thornhill (QC for the respondents,i.e the MG),who came to make himself known to me and another TSFM person. A big surprise to me was that it was not Lord Bishopp presiding, but Lord Docherty ( which, of course, kept the business within the Scottish house) Apparently, the respondents had appealed against the time allocation set by Judge Bishopp, and it was reduced from 20 to 10 days, and Judge Bishopp stood down for some reason. At kick-off, there were ,besides Judge Docherty and the clerical officer, there were 15 persons in the Tribunal room. On the left, Roderick Thomson QC for HMRC,supported by 6 other lawyers(none of whom actually sat beside him,but behind). On the right, Andrew Thornhill QC for the respondents, supported by 2 other lawyers (one of whom sat beside him, the other one behind). Behind them was the Finance Director of the Murray group, the chap from the ‘Sun’, and me and a lurker. On my left were two young women one of whom was there, she told me, as part of her training, as newly qualified and in her first job in a solicitor’s office as a qualified solicitor. The other took copious notes and was probably a lawyer as well. (Mind you, so did I take copious notes,and I’m no lawyer!) She did not turn up for the second half. The 17th person must have been Russell of STV, but he was sitting beside the lawyers behind Thomson,QC, so I had clocked him as a lawyer. Lord Docherty reminded counsel that the names of the HMRC officers who gave evidence at the FTTT should not be disclosed, nor should the names of 3 witnesses who had given evidence on the basis of anonymity. Mr Thomson said he would try to remember that if or when he had occasion to mention their testimony in the course of the hearing. Mr Thomson invited His lordship - to overturn the decision of the First Tier Tax Tribunal and uphold HMRC’s assessments. He added that he would later have something to say about ‘unreasonable comments’ made by the FTTT. or, if His Lordship was not minded to make any additional findings of fact, then to remit the case to a fresh Tribunal. He gave a very short summary of the background. To wit, that the FTTT had heard evidence for 17 days, and that the evidence bundles shows that much of the documentation was provided by the MG, and that there had been extensive reference to that documentation. Put very simply, the MG had argued a) that for earnings to be taxable, there had to be ABSOLUTE legal title to them, and that under the EBT Trust scheme there was no such absolute title. Payments made under them were something other than bonuses or emoluments and that the recipients of loans had had been no ‘unreserved disposal’ of the money that was on offer as loans. and b) that the Trust scheme had not been shown to be a sham. Mr Thomson said that HMRC’s view was that the evidence showed that there had been an underlying tacit agreement between the parties involved that loans would not ever be recalled, that interest due would be rolled up, until death, when the interest and repayment would be able to be offset against inheritance tax. He said that the idea that the idea that payments under the Trust arrangements were something ‘other’ than taxable earnings was merely an assertion by the MG that did not reflect reality. The rest of the day was spent by Mr Thomson ripping the FTTT’s whole approach to their hearing apart, and using quite harsh words their failure of duty to examine the evidence, make complete findings of fact, and apply the principles of the Ramsay case and a couple of other relevant cases properly, if at all. he referred to the minority report of DR Poon as showing how many findings of fact were there to be made, which the majority had missed, and how their understanding and application of the Ramsay and other relevant cases had been erroneous and actually missed the very point of those cases. He went on to say that the FTTT majority had failed to address the submissions made by HMRC, and that a pattern emerged of the FTTT simply accepting the MG’s submission, and of failing to make findings of fact to support arguments There was not merely understandable error in law, but deeply flawed submissions by the Majority, wholesale faiure to exercise their judicial duty. And so on all day till 4.00 pm, with frequent references to the legal authorities and the true interpretation of the case which is, that while there may be all the legal documentation to show that there was a proper, valid Trust, it was necessary to look at whether people in fact worked the Trust properly. The Trust may be perfectly legal and not a sham, but the Trustees could ( and in this case, did, act beyond their powers) by making loans to people who were not entitled to such under the trust, making loans without requiring evidence of security or requiring repayment or interest payments -and all involved knew this to be the case. And, of course, the Trustees who began to ask for security etc were dismissed and another more compliant lot were brought in. —– That all sounds as dry as dust, but I actually quite enjoyed the day, And I’ll be back tomorrow. I still have 18 pages of notes to decipher: I can write legibly, and I can write fast: but not both at the same time! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Fat Sally has had to put his rebuilding plans on hold now aswell according to news reports on twitter Tick Tock 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 ok I'll bite. We are, of course, the Rangers International Football Club Ltd. however, if you were one of us, you'd understand that we are Rangers then, Rangers now and Rangers forever. What's in a name, eh. One thing is for fucking sure ?, you don't have a scooby about anything do ya ? Even your own clubs name. "The Rangers International Football Club PLC" is the holding company for the club. "The Rangers Football Club Ltd" is the club that is owned by the holding company. On our way back ? to school again !, after all what's in a name. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phasma ex machina Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Taken from CM, re the change in judge on the tax case of his old secondary school"St. Joseph's College was founded in 1875 as both a boarding school and the first Novitiate for the training of Marist Brothers in Great Britain. Brother Walfrid, the man who founded Celtic Football Club, also helped to found the school. The school became part of the state school system in 1981, but still accepts Catholic students as priority. The school was a boys' school to begin with, and the first female pupils were admitted as day pupils in the early 1970s." Fair hearing then :D -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Grant Russell @STVGrant · 2m It was revealed today at the Upper Tier Tax Tribunal that Alex McLeish had a property bought for him through an EBT:http://bit.ly/1ebB1SE Cheats then, Cheats now . . . That property was the best left winger we've ever had... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Well this should be interesting http://news.stv.tv/west-central/265261-hmrc-argue-error-of-law-made-as-rangers-oldco-tax-appeal-begins/ I wonder what happens if HMRC wins, will the SFA have the bottle to strip titles? Best get the fat low level paper gatherer on speed dial.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DA Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Taken from CM, re the change in judge on the tax case Fair hearing then :D Words fail me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 The seethe will be monumental if they acquire less points than Celtic and if Celtic have a larger points gap to their nearest challenger stealing their thunder that they were more successful in their division than any other club in their division in Scotland. If that were to happen, it would be the second successive year that someone else accrued more points and won by a bigger margin, in another division. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phasma ex machina Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 That property was the best left winger we've ever had... Benny, re avatar..... Who was the ''fat slug'' of a cook that was the spiv???? Could've been a Greasedale? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 ...and there it is... I'm sure Charlie (yeah i know) claimed that the car park and EH were bought for around £4m, it's looking like £1.5m could see them gone. A few scenarios spring to mind, all of them bad. In the last month or so i've been sorely tempted to go back to Ibrox again, give em money and they'll keep on taking. Whats our resident legal/financial/property experts views on this? Like you actually care what they think ya roaster. Everyone has been posting yer new clubs fucked at some point in the future for months and months !, where the fcuk have you been hiding ?, oh that's right you've been hiding behind smart arse remarks and witty posts because yer teams been winning games lol. Why the fcuk does it take a draw or a defeat against part time clubs in the painters & decorators leagues before the stupid fuckers wake up and ask the questions the P&D's have been pondering over for months and months ?. FWIW Benny you'll be soooooo fucking lucky to get a sensible response to one of your posts in future after the the amount of posting shite and winding up posters on P&B for years since you joined. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasodaha Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Fat Sally has had to put his rebuilding plans on hold now aswell according to news reports on twitter Tick Tock Awe FFS! There is no need for rebuilding plans, the current squad is more than capable of getting the club to the top tier on schedule. Still in 2x cup comps this season too btw. I look in here now and then to see if anything interesting happening and continue to be perplexed at the utter drivel you guys spout, in your quest for blue blood. Ok the wee loan requirement and the reported terms for security and repayment, may be of some concern but I haven't read anything that indicates impending doom. The club has clearly stated that this arrangement will see it through until other revenue streams come in. ST sales will likely be up on last 2x seasons, as we enter a phase that brings us closer to our proper standing. There reall is nothing to see here. -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) Taken from CM, re the change in judge on the tax case Fair hearing then :D Couple of factual errors about the school. It came under state control in 1982. Although a handful of very clever girls attended the school for certain subjects into the 1970s, it remained a boys' school until 1982 when a full intake of girls was first admitted. Brother Walfrid is also buried in the school's grounds. It is still a 'Catholic School' but about 78% of its pupils are non- Catholic. Edited February 24, 2014 by Monkey Tennis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Benny, re avatar..... Who was the ''fat slug'' of a cook that was the spiv???? Could've been a Greasedale? Unless i've got the wrong end of the stick here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) FWIW Benny you'll be soooooo fucking lucky to get a sensible response to one of your posts in future after the the amount of posting shite and winding up posters on P&B for years since you joined. This is coming from the guy who trolls every single Rangers thread. yer having a Edited February 24, 2014 by bennett 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Well this should be interesting http://news.stv.tv/west-central/265261-hmrc-argue-error-of-law-made-as-rangers-oldco-tax-appeal-begins/ I wonder what happens if HMRC wins, will the SFA have the bottle to strip titles? It is highly unlikely the SFA will do anything other than say "The matter has already been dealt with during the SPL commission and the association has been dissolved so cannot be re-looked at again as the competition Rangers were part off and won honours with belonged to the SPL". I'm beginning to think the SPL was dissolved so that if the UTT went against the club there would be no association to answer to the guilty verdict. No matter though Rico , they will be known legally as cheats then, cheats now & forever and ever and they will never escape or be allowed to ever forget that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weirdcal Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Awe FFS! There is no need for rebuilding plans, the current squad is more than capable of getting the club to the top tier on schedule. Still in 2x cup comps this season too btw. I look in here now and then to see if anything interesting happening and continue to be perplexed at the utter drivel you guys spout, in your quest for blue blood. Ok the wee loan requirement and the reported terms for security and repayment, may be of some concern but I haven't read anything that indicates impending doom. The club has clearly stated that this arrangement will see it through until other revenue streams come in. ST sales will likely be up on last 2x seasons, as we enter a phase that brings us closer to our proper standing. There reall is nothing to see here. you just spent 1.5m (1.65 if share option not taken up) of next years budget already. What happens next year ? The half season ticket sales won't cover it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phasma ex machina Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Unless i've got the wrong end of the stick here. Thats the one This is coming from the guy who trolls every single Rangers thread. yer having a Marius G, Sallys new Danish signing......yet Copenhagen couldn't wait to be shot of him.... All legs, like a McMinn with skill if you will....... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Awe FFS! There is no need for rebuilding plans, the current squad is more than capable of getting the club to the top tier on schedule. Still in 2x cup comps this season too btw. I look in here now and then to see if anything interesting happening and continue to be perplexed at the utter drivel you guys spout, in your quest for blue blood. Ok the wee loan requirement and the reported terms for security and repayment, may be of some concern but I haven't read anything that indicates impending doom. The club has clearly stated that this arrangement will see it through until other revenue streams come in. ST sales will likely be up on last 2x seasons, as we enter a phase that brings us closer to our proper standing. There reall is nothing to see here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phasma ex machina Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 8 years undercover, but I self destructed with this one 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.