KillieJimbo Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I am very happy to sing The Sash, No Surrender or, my favourite, Build My Gallows. They may well be pish but it doesn't make me a bigot.Sure get rid of the 'hate' songs but there is legitimacy and health in affirming Loyalist Protestantism. Those songs you mentioned are "hate" songs. You might be naive enough to not realise it but that's exactly what they mean to the vast majority of your choir. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunfellaff Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) http://www.telegraph...y-comments.html The Scottish Football Association has written to Sevco Scotland Ltd's chief executive, Charles Green, demanding an explanation for his comments prior to the kick-off of Sunday's Ramsdens Cup tie against Brechin City. meh meh meh Edited July 30, 2012 by wunfellaff 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismcarab Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Mork calling Orson, come in Orson..... Am I still on Pie and Bovril? What I thought was generally a football forum? Religious racism bigotry fuckwttery forum for all this pish. Can we just get back to laughing at the Sevco football misdemeanours and stop giving page upon page to outdated superstitious hokus pokus that has no relevance to educated informed and rational humans living in the real 21st century. That is all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyderspaceman Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) well they are now specifically banned due to the bill passed last year, but this is from motherwells website fir park rules 11. The use threatening behavior, foul or abusive language is strictly forbidden. Racist, homophobic, discriminatory or sectarian remarks, songs or chants; and the promotion or endorsement of any political or proscribed terrorist organisations is not permitted within the stadium and may result in arrest and a lifetime ban from regulated football matches. thats always the case at every ground, uefa hand down dictats which they expect national associations to adhere to, one of them and its not a new one is no poitical protests of any form within any ground ever, thats a big no-no, this would naturally include political songs, or any song pledging alleigance to any political organisation. I'm really in favour of "cleaning up" football but we seem to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The above rules would appear to ban the "Jimmy Hill" tribute and also ban any whistling of a national anthem. Or letting a female prime minister know she was unwelcome. So much for free speech. Or free whistling. As someone said somewhere else on this site, going to a football match will be like going to the cinema. These b*****ds have spoiled it for everyone. eta I see the RTC blog has finished. I thought he had some revelation to make. Looks like he will be keeping it to himself. Edited July 30, 2012 by cyderspaceman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReasonableGeezer Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) I found this tonight and I thought I should share it with you. Bigoted attitudes; intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself. So, the rangers support say ... WE ARE THE PEOPLE... These are PEOPLE who where shouting about how 'Big Jock Knew' yesterday, a man who pulled THE PEOPLE from the stands in the ibrox disaster. That's how they choose to honour others who try to help them and theirs.... These are PEOPLE who scream about child abuse, Catholics or sheep shaggers because they have nothing else less disgusting or more witty to say.... These are PEOPLE whose war cry is 'WE are the people' and everyone else therefore is dirt on their shoes by that definition... Nobody likes them and guess what? They don't care.Why? Because THEY are the PEOPLE so why should they and so the arrogance continues...... These are PEOPLE that can't go away from home without being manhandled by police. PEOPLE who piss all over holy statues which lead one newspaper in Barcelona to write a full article demanding they never come back and stressing Celtic fans should get an award just for putting up with them. These are people who can't win or lose European games without causing riots or getting themselves banned.... They are PEOPLE who the head of the Manchester police stated were like, 'a pack of baying wolves'... That's the type of PEOPLE they are. They should seek to remember that before they stand there and scream about all of Scottish football being bigoted against them, like they are innocent victims in everything. They should seek to remember that before they point their finger accusingly at anyone else. Many of us have our own demons in our football clubs but I can safely say that most clubs have nowhere near the psychological problems that some of this lot clearly have.... The worrying thing is they have successfully managed to transfer that attitude, just like their assets, to SEVCO.... God help the SFL!!!!! Edited July 30, 2012 by ReasonableGeezer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 And you never will. The Church of Scotland is linked to the Christian faith. People fail to understand that Protestant and Roman Catholic are not religions. They are merely denominations. Moreover they are denominations of the same faith. That faith is Christianity. A lot of the Old Firm antagonism is not caused by religion as is often stated. It is done in the name of religion. Mind you I wouldn't step into the middle of an Old Firm punch-up to try to explain that it is all a big misunderstanding and that the different denominations come under the same religion. It confuses a lot of people. Some people even state Church of Scotland when asked their religion! Utter horseshit and revisionism. The RCC and the various Protestant sects have been tearing lumps out of each other since the Reformation. They may well circle their wagons round the same issues now (such as abortion, the gays etc) but the sectarian issue very much took it's lead from a religious legacy. The Covenanters in particular being a most intolerant form of Protestantism in Scotland. Not that this makes the Old Firm's continual use of bigotry to prop up their collapsing value to Scottish football well-founded or relevant. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kincardine Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 We now have a nation that is tolerant of all religions so why are you still marching for something that occurred over 300 years ago. If all that weighs heavy on your psyche it is no wonder your all up in arms about taking a few football trophies from you for cheating. I totally agree. We have religious tolerance and it's a bloody good thing. We also have a parliamentary democracy. We aren't governed by 'the divine right of kings' but by an elected parliament. Scotland was also one of the first nations on earth to have free education for every child. Scotland had 4 Universities when England only had 2. Do you know why? Because of The Reformation and The Glorious Revolution. If you object to the fact that my football team has a coterie of fans who celebrate being Protestant then kiss my old arse. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kincardine Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Those songs you mentioned are "hate" songs. You might be naive enough to not realise it but that's exactly what they mean to the vast majority of your choir. aye, "It's on the 12 that I love to wear the sash my father wore" is just dripping with hate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 It isn't an abuse. I'm happy to uphold The Williamite Revolution as a 'good thing'. I am happy that some of our fans celebrate this. I am aware enough to know that sometimes this descends to abuse and I hate that and apologise for it. Well I for one am rather taken by the First Defenestration of Prague. Lovely work there, and a cracking word to boot. Now, can I keep this burning desire for largely irrelevant early-modern events in history to myself, or must I set up a football team with other like-minded individuals, and have the fans sing songs about defenestration, 394 years after it happened? Maybe it relies upon the association of another opposition team with anti-defenestration, and they can sing songs about that too. Plausible? Credible? This is exactly as ridiculous as your mewling defence for Sevco's fans. It happened more than 300 years ago: it is abso-fucking-lutely irrelevant to football, now never mind even a hundred years ago. In short, get your half-truths, your distortions, and your bigoted associations out of the game. That's 'you' as a collective fanbase. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kincardine Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 They may well circle their wagons round the same issues now (such as abortion, the gays etc) This is maybe the bigest pish you have ever typed. The Kirk and The Catholic Church do not "circle their wagons round" abortion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I totally agree. We have religious tolerance and it's a bloody good thing. We also have a parliamentary democracy. We aren't governed by 'the divine right of kings' but by an elected parliament. Scotland was also one of the first nations on earth to have free education for every child. Scotland had 4 Universities when England only had 2. Do you know why? Because of The Reformation and The Glorious Revolution. If you object to the fact that my football team has a coterie of fans who celebrate being Protestant then kiss my old arse. Half-truths, distortions and bigoted associations, all in one fell swoop. You're really out-doing your fellow fans here... Still, I'm sure John Knox is delighted that Catholics constitute about 20% of Scotland's alleged religious associations, and they are treated equally under the law. Or not: he'll be spinning in his grave like all the other bigots from both sides who took part in such a grisly period of underhand dealing, dynastic bombast and religious fundamentalism. Still being repackaged by idiots and bigots for their own ends. And of course, all this is definitely relevant to a Brechin City v Sevco Scotland game in July 2012. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kincardine Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 That's 'you' as a collective fanbase. No please make it me as an individual. I don't speak for any fanbase. I have no problem in defending the opinions I expressed. You, however, have a huge issue since you just stated that The Kirk and The Catholic Church have the same views on abortion. I know I dug a hole for myself. You, however, need an excavation machine to get out of that one. Maybe the, "First Defenestration of Prague" will help you ;0 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillieJimbo Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I totally agree. We have religious tolerance and it's a bloody good thing. We also have a parliamentary democracy. We aren't governed by 'the divine right of kings' but by an elected parliament. Scotland was also one of the first nations on earth to have free education for every child. Scotland had 4 Universities when England only had 2. Do you know why? Because of The Reformation and The Glorious Revolution. If you object to the fact that my football team has a coterie of fans who celebrate being Protestant then kiss my old arse. Number of current universities in France - 81 Number of current universities in Scotland - 15 I'm guessing religion doesn't really factor into it that much. Oldest (continuous) university in the world (est 1088...the year after William the Conqueror died no less) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Bologna Hmm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calum_gers Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Is it time to think about closing this thread? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 No please make it me as an individual. I don't speak for any fanbase. I have no problem in defending the opinions I expressed. You, however, have a huge issue since you just stated that The Kirk and The Catholic Church have the same views on abortion. I know I dug a hole for myself. You, however, need an excavation machine to get out of that one. Maybe the, "First Defenestration of Prague" will help you ;0 Love the fact you've chosen to entirely ignore all the other points made, in the hope you;re going to get a 'big hitter' on this one. I didn't say they had the 'same view', I said they circled the wagons around the same issues. Which they do. Such as the gays and possibly to a lesser extent, abortion. Incidentally, a point largely irrelevant to the rest of that post. So... now it's time for you to address all the above points you tried to skip in the hope of landing that one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I'm happy to uphold The Williamite Revolution as a 'good thing'. Uphold what f**king revolution? William Of Orange came to Britain with no intention of taking over (for one thing The Netherlands had expressly forbidden him to do so at pain of being sacked as Stadholder) solely to do an equivalent of Father Ted's "Down With This Sort Of Thing!" (French King Phillip had done the same to King John centuries earlier) - forget all that "invited" over historical fantasy which counted for f**k all in his decision - partly because he was terrified if James II did blow it with the locals, it would give King Louis the excuse to invade to "preserve peace" & a combined French/English fleet would certainly doom the Dutch to conquest. When it became clear that events after landing had created a power vacuum, it became a conquest, & all the "Glorious Revolution" revisionism doesn't fool our continental cousins that England got conquored by a William again. James for his part knew that a Catholic King of a Protestant country was all the excuse needed to keep the Three Kingdoms out of the wars between much of Europe & King Louis's France, the latter using the pretext of "religion" to give Hitler a run for his money in the conquest & looting game. James knew that future national wealth & strength would come from trade with the East, and wanted France, the Netherlands, Spain and the Italian States caught up in every ruinous war with their neighbours possible to leave the Three Kingdoms a free hand. James' trouble was he was a hopeless diplomat & politician, albeit even a slippery sod like Charles II would have fared little better under the circumstances of the real risk of a French invasion at the slightest hint England was never going to be as "onside" as James bullshitted Louis he could make them. The bottom line of William's revolution was Presbyterians in Ireland were so persecuted by authorities (any non-Church Of Ireland preacher caught giving a sermon was fined £10 & in some cases flogged) over a million were to leave for North America, seething at the betrayal, & making up a large chunk of the ancestry of the future American revolutionaries. The greatest irony of the Williamite Revolution was James II/VII got what he wanted all along - the French & Dutch ruined - with the Brucie Bonus of the best mercantile brains of the Netherlands relocated to London to escape the carnage on the European mainland (exactly what the Dutch Stadt had feared would happen if William became King), & Britain reaped the historical rewards via the protection of its island status & plentiful natural resources the Netherlands lacked. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kincardine Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Number of current universities in France - 81 Number of current universities in Scotland - 15 I'm guessing religion doesn't really factor into it that much. Oldest (continuous) university in the world (est 1088...the year after William the Conqueror died no less) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Bologna Hmm. Factor in the population. I'm guessing France is 11/12 times our size? We also had 4 universities before 1600. This is unprecedented. Why did Scotland do so well out of Empire? Why was so much of 'The New World' governed by Scots? Because we had an educated country by dint of the Reformation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Is it time to think about closing this thread? Never! Never! Never! The big thread must stay open, that's the bottom line! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kincardine Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Love the fact you've chosen to entirely ignore all the other points made, in the hope you;re going to get a 'big hitter' on this one. I didn't say they had the 'same view', I said they circled the wagons around the same issues. Which they do. Such as the gays and possibly to a lesser extent, abortion. Incidentally, a point largely irrelevant to the rest of that post. So... now it's time for you to address all the above points you tried to skip in the hope of landing that one. I didn't avoid anything. You did state, indeed, that "they circled the wagons around the same issues" In truth they didn't. Your use of 'abortion' as an example just shows how wrong you are. Also, I didn't ignore your points - I just brushed them off as irrelevant and ignorant. Finally, I am hardly trying to make any 'big hits'. I've expressed views that many object to. That's ok, but just realise that if one of us is 'playing to the gallery' then it isn't me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 How many other football leagues in Europe or South America have to deal with religous pish at football? Off the top of my head, the Bosnian, Serbian, Croatian, Dutch and Israeli leagues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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