Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Monkey Tennis]

population distribution alone would always skew the competition, e.g. Brechin at some point will play in a lower league than Newco, as Newco have a bigger fan catchment,

Hell, thanks for pointing that out to me - I'd no idea that more successful clubs tend to come from more populous areas.

[ReasonableGeezer]

A license? Does that get them clearance to play in the NASL?

They can get as many licenses as they like, but its membership they need. Will they get it? Hope not. I dont want to see any form of this toxic vile institution (phoenix or not) exist. They have cheated everyone in Scottish football, stolen from taxpayers, bullied and intimidated anyone who questioned their ways. They simply dont deserve to exist any more. I seriously hope they implode.

The SFA,SPL and whoever else are trying to flaunt the rules to save this shameful excuse of a football club deserve to implode with them. Its getting quite ridiculous now. If this were ANY of the other teams in Scottish football, we'd be dead and buried long ago and no-one but no-one in authority or in the corrupt, apologist Scottish media would even question it. It would have been deemed our particular teams own fault.

We're not the diddies or internet bampots, we're the victims of serious fraud by Rangers football club (IA) and the Scottish Footballing establishment .

[Itwiznaeme]

Have we all forgotten the scale of this mob's wrongdoing? A club whose sense of entitlement manifests itself any time one of its mouthpieces opens their gob and issues more threats towards the remainder of Scottish Football?

You're just jealous because the Ibrox club is free of debt and have a big stadium and training ground bought and paid for with no mortgage while your club is shackled with debt.

[Happy Buddie]

Hell, thanks for pointing that out to me - I'd no idea that more successful clubs tend to come from more populous areas.

Sorry, wasn't implying you were thick, I had a senior moment on that one, I was going somewhere with the argument, then got distracted.

[Savage Henry]

They can get as many licenses as they like, but its membership they need. Will they get it? Hope not. I dont want to see any form of this toxic vile institution (phoenix or not) exist. They have cheated everyone in Scottish football, stolen from taxpayers, bullied and intimidated anyone who questioned their ways. They simply dont deserve to exist any more. I seriously hope they implode.

The SFA,SPL and whoever else are trying to flaunt the rules to save this shameful excuse of a football club deserve to implode with them. Its getting quite ridiculous now. If this were ANY of the other teams in Scottish football, we'd be dead and buried long ago and no-one but no-one in authority or in the corrupt, apologist Scottish media would even question it. It would have been deemed our particular teams own fault.

We're not the diddies or internet bampots, we're the victims of serious fraud by Rangers football club (IA) and the Scottish Footballing establishment .

No, not quite all... I can think of one other establishment team.

[Wings Over Scotland]

I think he's a bit disconcerted that after The Scotsman kindly put him right on his mistaken "scoop" about the TV money, and he ungraciously called them thieves and fools on his blog, he's finding everyone on here agreeing with the Scotsman.

Had this morning's Scotsman been published at 7pm last night you could arguably have had at least a vague semblance of a point. As it wasn't, though, you just sound like a tit. But blimey, don't people get huffy when you actually try to establish the facts rather than just repeating whatever pish you've heard on Twitter?

[Thumper]

At its AGM on 5 June 2006, the FSF again considered a motion[8] proposed by the FSF Council to allow MK Dons Supporters Association membership if the honours and trophies of Wimbledon F.C. were given to the London Borough of Merton. In October 2006, agreement[9] was reached between the club, the MK Dons Supporters Association, the Wimbledon Independent Supporters Association and the Football Supporters Federation. The replica of the FA Cup plus all club patrimony gathered under the name of Wimbledon F.C. would be returned to the London Borough of Merton. Ownership of trademarks and website domain names related to Wimbledon F.C. would also be transferred to the Borough. The Borough subsequently transferred all trademarks to AFC Wimbledon. As part of the same deal it was agreed that any reference made to Milton Keynes Dons F.C. should refer only to events subsequent to 7 August 2004 (the date of the first League game of Milton Keynes Dons F.C.).

Yes, the Borough of Merton is the custodian for the history of Wimbledon F.C. AFC Wimbledon don't even play in the borough of Merton yet, don't use the Wimbledon trademarks (although they were granted them by the Borough), have a new crest and a new name. Everyone agrees that they are the spiritual successors of Wimbledon F.C. Everyone also agrees that Perfect Dark is the spiritual successor of GoldenEye 64, but that doesn't make mean Joanna Dark is James Bond.

[P45]

No, it clearly says that he 'hopes' it can be concluded in the next 24 hours. With your knack of twisting peoples' words, you should consider working for the Daily Record.

He also hoped the CVA would be agreed.

He hoped he'd get money for Naismith.

He hoped they'd get voted into the spl and then the first.

Keep hoping bawjaw.

[Itwiznaeme]

It's Time To Take The Gloves Off With The SFA

The SFA are making it clear to one and all that their first priority is to save the myth of Rangers rather than look after Scottish football.

It has been obvious for some time now that neither the SFA nor the SPL has the slightest intention of doing the right thing except under the strongest compulsion from the vast majority of Scottish football supporters. Even then, the authorities waste no time in reverting to their corrupt ways as soon as they sense that the immediate pressure has relented.

Thus, in the last week, we have witnessed the absurd pantomime of negotiations about what level of punishment the disreputable Ibrox mob will deign to accept for the disgraceful conduct of their business over the last year. It is glaringly obvious that the perpetrators have no right to dictate what punishment they are prepared to accept. Any authority worthy of the name would simply dictate that Rangers, having been found guilty of the most serious charges in the history of Scottish football and having brought the game into disrepute on several different counts, must be suspended or expelled altogether. The judgement and sentence would be handed down and that would be that. But it doesn't work that way when the orcs are involved.

Thugs such as McCoist, Brown and Jardine issue threats with impunity and the SFA and SPL cower in abject submission. Gangsters and mobsters operate from the Ibrox boardroom and bully the game's administrators into inviting a fraudulent club to participate in a league to which it isn't even entitled to apply for membership. Law enforcement officers are investigating several different suspect aspects of this stinking operation and will assuredly pounce sooner or later.

And all the while, the SFA pretends that it is somehow in the interests of Scotland and its national game that these crooks should be accommodated in the professional structure instead of run out of town faster than you can say "organised crime" or "international money-laundering syndicate."

Obviously, the SFA thinks it can get away with this. That is in no small part due to the fact that it always has got away with it up until now. It has always managed to keep this sort of scandal in-house and under control, mainly because of a complete lack of transparency in its doings. It helped that it was never seriously challenged by an emasculated press corps whose loyalties have generally lain in the same place as those of Hampden high heid yins such as Campbell Ogilvie, Gordon Smith and George Peat.

And for as long as these crooks could keep everything in house, it has been a safe bet that nobody could ever stop the corruption of the national game. Politicians are a complete waste of time at best while UEFA and FIFA do not involve themselves in domestic matters.

McCoist is now arrogantly insisting that the football authorities abandon the investigation into the illegal payment schemes practised by Rangers over the course of many, many years. He is quite patently making this demand for no other reason than that he wants to hide the truth about the colossal number of games in which Rangers fielded players who were not properly registered to play. He has also stated in advance that he will not accept any talk of titles being stripped from the cheating Ibrox club. McCoist's position is that there must be no transparency, no investigation, no punishment and he has previous form for inciting criminal action to intimidate those who wish to see the same rules apply to Rangers as would apply to any other club. Sadly, his thuggery has not been wholly unsuccessful so far, and the SFA has shown no indication that it is prepared to lay down the law lest it displeases the bombs and bullets brigade.

So it's time to get the gloves off with these scummy crooks and bring the whole charade to a crashing halt. The Scottish game is heading for destruction one way or another if a criminal enterprise such as Sevco is going to continue to receive preferential treatment at the same time that rabble-rousers like McCoist can threaten the personal safety of anyone who stands between him and his demands. If the game is going to be destroyed, let it be for better reasons than for the sake of sustaining the fake prestige of a rotten institution.

Fortunately, there is a way to involve UEFA and FIFA. As a bonus, it may lead to the destruction of the SFA. If the decent clubs in Scotland start making their preparations now, they may be in a good position to form a new administrative body to take over the running of Scottish football when the SFA is expelled from world football.

Step forward Barry Ferguson, inductee of the Rangers Hall of Fame [sic] and formerly captain of his club and country. Ferguson had two spells at Ibrox and somewhere along the line he trousered two and half million tax-free pounds sterling through the EBT scam. Mark Daly reported that Ferguson's extra contract with Rangers has been seen and confirmed by the BBC.

What a stroke of bad luck it would be for the SFA if Barry Ferguson had been selected to play for the Scotland international team in a World Cup qualifying tournament whilst being improperly registered. Alas! That seems to be exactly what has happened.

During the campaign to qualify for the 2006 Finals, Scotland drew four and won three of the ten matches. The only match which Ferguson did not play in was the very last group tie, a 3-0 away victory over Slovenia. In every other fixture, the improperly registered Rangers player was selected to represent Scotland in a competition played under FIFA auspices. Ten of Scotland's 13 points were won by breaking the rules of the competition. Not only has the SFA accepted prize money which it wasn't entitled to collect but Scotland's seeding level since that tournament has been at a higher level than it ought to be because it is based on Scotland finishing in a false third position in the group rather than sixth and last where it ought to have been according to the rules.

The Scotland manager for all but the first three games of that campaign was Walter Smith, a man who knows more about EBTs than most. The president of the SFA was George Peat, its Treasurer was Campbell Ogilvie and the CEO was David Taylor (who is now the joint General Secretary of UEFA). If there are any journalists out there who know how to work a telephone, they could do us all a favour by asking any of these gentlemen for their comments on the matter of Scotland fielding ineligible players in FIFA competitions. Failing that, why not just go straight to FIFA and ask them if they approve?

(FIFA's number is +41 (0)43 222 7777. I'd call them myself but I'm a bit low on credit, what with paying my taxes and stuff.

Arthur Numan, a Dutch international footballer, received over half a million pounds in sneaky pay from an EBT and Mark Daly of the BBC reports a positive sighting of the infamous "side letter" which confirms that this money was paid as wages to the player. McCoist doesn't want the SFA or the SPL to investigate this. But Numan didn't only play for Rangers at this time. He also played for the Netherlands. In international competitions under the auspices of both UEFA and FIFA.

For example, Numan was in the Dutch team that defeated Estonia 5-0 on the 5th of September 2001 in the Philips Stadium in Eindhoven during the qualifying tournament for the 2002 World Cup Finals. And just a few weeks later in Arnhem, Gelredome on the 6th of October, Arthur came on as a substitute for Mario Melchiot as the Netherlands defeated Andorra 4-0 in their next FIFA World Cup qualifying tie. He also played in Holland's 2-2 draw with the Republic of Ireland.

Other contemporary Rangers players who featured on the official team-lines during that qualifying competition were EBT beneficiaries Ronald de Boer (£1,200,000 with a side letter), Fernando Ricksen (£684,225, side letter confirmed) and Bert Konterman (£300,000).

Hello again, FIFA. That's seven points which Holland should not have kept just for Arthur Numan's appearances alone. Numan, not being properly registered, was not entitled to play professional football at any level, far less as an internationalist in the most prestigious competition on the planet. The SFA, by failing in its own duties to ensure that players were properly registered, devalued the jewel in FIFA's crown. Again, an enterprising journalist will already be reaching for the phone to ask the Dutch FA if they falsified their own bureaucratic submissions to FIFA or if they received inaccurate paperwork from their Scottish counterparts.

But member clubs of the SFA should not be waiting for any other party to investigate this. Between the SPL and the SFL, there are forty-one member clubs of the SFA who are entitled to demand of the executive, as a matter of the utmost urgency, an immediate answer to this question: have the SFA habitually deceived UEFA and FIFA with false registration documents to enable ineligible players to compete in major tournaments? With a new World Cup qualifying tournament about to start, it is a matter of vital importance that this question is cleared up immediately and if the SFA haven't got the balls to do it then somebody should ask FIFA to intervene without a moment's delay.

As for UEFA, we see exactly the same irregularities. Indeed, one side was as bad as the other in the play-off match between Scotland and the Netherlands for a place in the Euro 2004 Finals. Players with dual contracts at Rangers had featured throughout the campaign for both teams. While Rangers EBT beneficiary Dick Advocaat (£1,500,000) was selecting his fellow tax-scammers Fernando Ricksen and Ronald de Boer for the Dutch, the officials of the SFA were sitting in the directors' box watching Barry Ferguson and Neil McCann (£500,000) turning out for the Scots. Just for good measure, while Holland were rattling in half-a-dozen goals against Scotland in one play-off, another Rangers dual contract holder was settling another play-off match with the only goals of the tie between Slovenia and Croatia. Dado Prso, armed with the side letter which the BBC has seen, took away £1,900,000 in tax-free sneaky pay.

Gloves off. It's the SFA versus everybody who cares about football being played properly and according to the rules. The SFA have just about destroyed Scottish football. It's time for Scottish football fans to call them on these matters and turn ourselves in to UEFA and FIFA. Call for the expulsion of the SFA from world football. Form a brand new association which places integrity at the centre of its constitution and let it invite applications from clubs which agree to be bound by the rules without question. Orcs need not apply. Let the new Caledonian Soccerball Association (Featuring New, Improved Integrity) petition UEFA and FIFA for formal recognition in place of the disgraced, discredited SFA . Never again should we have to cringe with embarrassment or shake with fury at the sight of a thoroughly corrupt fraudster presiding over an association of cowards and cheats who negotiate with gangsters and neds about how to wreak further damage on our game.

Over to you, UEFA and FIFA. Get this investigated and when McCoist throws one of his hissy fits and threatens you with a mass mobilisation of the Larkhall Loyal, just tell him to do one. For once, the vast majority of football fans will be right behind you.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Itwiznaeme

[cyderspaceman]

Perhaps for the benefit of this thread, yes. But there is a much more important issue at stake here: it is crucial we record exactly what has happened over the past six months, and instantly reject the revisionism that is already gathering some momentum. This isn't about 'golding' an Internet thread: it is about preserving for future generations the fact that Rangers died as a result of a liquidation procedure in the summer of 2012, and that their apparent 'continuation' is, in fact, a phoenix club. With no credible claim to the honours or history of the old club. This must be established before the PR campaigns of Sevco, the footballing authorities, the sponsors and the TV companies attempt to rebrand what is in fact an utterly discredited new club.

That is far too important an argument (with possible ramifications for future clubs in administration) to be sidelined with a mealy-mouthed 'agree to disagree' truce.

Oh , here we go, I am replying to you in the same fashion that I am deploring has happened earlier in this thread.

So I am only going to do it once. NOT to try to score some 'I got the last word' points but merely to reiterate that we are going

round in circles with this TO NO AVAIL.

Yes it has to be remembered what has happened. Yes we want the right and proper punishments to be administered

but WE can't affect it in the way we (you) affected previous stuff. We can only keep reminding the authorities that they have to do the right thing but we can't even agree amongst ourselves what that is ffs.

For us on this forum to keep trying to prove each other right or wrong doesn't change anything and I am sure I'm not alone in finding it tedious and obfuscating.

Every so called 'FACT' that has been put up has been denounced by another 'FACT' (well, many of them)

It's the nature of ""obvious and incontravertable"" facts to be adjustable. That's why we've got lawyers.

I don't cosider what I suggested to be mealy mouthed.

I just want a more interesting thread for purely selfish reasons.

I'm going out now, wife's orders.

When I come back I want to see them dead.

[Happy Buddie]

The Rangers (estd 2012) is the spirit of Rangers (estd 1872).

A spirit is a ghost.

You only have a ghost when you're deid.

QED.

[ReasonableGeezer]

No, not quite all... I can think of one other establishment team.

Do you honestly think that Jabba, Chico and co would be campaigning so hard for the other cheek of the same arse? I honestly dont. I think that particular club would die like the rest of us maybe with a bit more of a fight, but I honestly dont see the Apologists giving them the same support as the Orcs. Remember the daily record front page years back?

[vikingTON]

For us on this forum to keep trying to prove each other right or wrong doesn't change anything and I am sure I'm not alone in finding it tedious and obfuscating.

Well kindly stop reading the thread until the topic of discussion changes, instead of tone-trolling those who are involved in the current discussion with your literary review.

[welshbairn]

Yes, the Borough of Merton is the custodian for the history of Wimbledon F.C. AFC Wimbledon don't even play in the borough of Merton yet, don't use the Wimbledon trademarks (although they were granted them by the Borough), have a new crest and a new name. Everyone agrees that they are the spiritual successors of Wimbledon F.C. Everyone also agrees that Perfect Dark is the spiritual successor of GoldenEye 64, but that doesn't make mean Joanna Dark is James Bond.

Maybe so, but the club that all the accountants and corporate lawyers would say was the true continuation of Wimbledon FC has been forced to concede that ,in the real world, where fans and heritage matter, they're not.

[HibeeJibee]

Here's the BBC report on Green's 'hopeful'-ness. Not much content bar his meeting Regan & Doncaster.

Inevitably BBC continue to report the 'nae TV rights to SPL means nae Settlement to SFL' thing without critique.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18972417

[Thumper]

The club that all the accountants and corporate lawyers would say was the true continuation of Wimbledon FC has been forced to concede that ,in the real world, where fans and heritage matter, they're not.

There are actually a small number of old Wimbledon fans who support MK Dons. It's less clear-cut. What is clearer, though, is that in the case of Rangers "all the accountants and corporate lawyers" would be forced to conclude that Rangers are about to be wound up and that people can wear blue and sing The Sash on the subway as much as they want but it won't be for Rangers any more.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Thumper

[NorthBank]

The Rangers (estd 2012) is the spirit of Rangers (estd 1872).

A spirit is a ghost.

You only have a ghost when you're deid.

QED.

Sorry to spoil your argument as I want them as deid as anyone else however the spirit resides in a physical entity. When that entity dies the spirit lives on and may be perceived as a ghost however the spirit at a later date may reside in another entity that is born.

Here to help

[welshbairn]

Here's the BBC report on Green's 'hopeful'-ness. Not much content bar his meeting Regan & Doncaster.

Inevitably BBC continue to report the 'nae TV rights to SPL means nae Settlement to SFL' thing without critique.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/18972417

Weird that. I can only think the Beeb have some quid pro quo thing with Cockwomble for exclusives. Everyone else is reporting that the SPL don't have a leg to stand on since they threw Rangers out of their gang.

[bennett]

Where the F**k did you get that I wish those helpful buggers at the SFA would hurry up with our license

[HibeeJibee]

Interestign tit-bit:

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/177865-ramsdens-challenge-cup-first-round-draw/page__view__findpost__p__6461884

In a break from the norm for cup games, the SFL are allowing clubs to play a maximum of two trialists in the first round of the Ramsden's Cup this season.

Normal rules apply from Round Two, not sure of the reasoning behind this decision.