MarreZ Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) Its quite funny that the fans are only getting a 30% reduction in season ticket money, they are being royally raped for the third division, they get a game less to start with, the cheapest ticket is still dearer than a lot of SPL clubs season tickets. I know they talk of packing Ibrox out every week but It wouldnt surprise me if they are lucky to get 15,000 most weeks, especially at those prices. They are also trying to hijack Amy McDonalds scotland song Pride, suggesting its about Rangers and not about Scotland despite it being quite public what its about, people see what they want to see. Edited July 22, 2012 by MarreZ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby_F Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Well they can put however many stars on their shirt as they like. There is no shirt design protocol and no body that awards stars or anything like that. The SFA are engaged in the negotiations to transfer the membership, they want the club to continue because they want to issue their sanctions. They can't give Sevco a new membership and expect to place sanctions on it. Example. I buy your car from your estate because you got caught drink driving and topped yourself. I wouldn't have to take on the penalty points, ban or jail sentence just because I bought your car. (In this case Ibrox and Murray Park are the Car) If I was also to buy your corpse and re-animate it to be my chauffeur then that sums up where we are now. As far as I know that's not correct. I'm pretty sure I read some where that they had to petition (UEFA I think) for permission to add those stars - presumable precisely because they were NOT just part of a design, but signifying previously won honours. As for the rest of your post, worst analogy I've heard in a while 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo Sergio Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I know they talk of packing Ibrox out every week but It wouldnt surprise me if they are lucky to get 15,000 most weeks, especially at those prices. Of course that's what will happen, their fans are 90% gloryhunters and bigots. All they care about is either seeing their team win or having a right good sing song. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umbungo1874 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) My linkMy linkAllan McGregor way to Besiktas Beşiktaş have completed the transfers of Allan McGregor and Julien Escude.Both McGregor and Escude join the Black eagles on a free transfer and both players have signed 2 year contracts with the Istanbul giants. ex-Rangers goalkeeper Allan McGregor will receive €1.2 million per season, while Julien Escude contract details are yet to be disclosed. The experienced keeper spent six seasons at Rangers and has 21 Scotland international caps. Edited July 22, 2012 by Umbungo1874 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I'm getting increasingly confused as to why people are taking about the legal status of buying and selling history. Surely this is prettymuch irrelevant to the situation. "Keeping their history" and "being the same club" isn't really a legal concept, ultimately, it's a footballing concept. What is relevant to the situation is a judgement in football's eyes. As a legal entity there are 2 Rangers, the old one and the new one, but in football's eyes there may be 1 Rangers (owing to the single SFA membership and the need for a continuity of punishment and liability for offending). This is where the debate lies. Personally, I don't see how it can be a different club if it's got the same membership, and is held responsible for historical misdemeanours. Others hold a different view. But it's footballing, not legal. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeHectorPar Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Oh come on, that's grossly unfair... Chimps are far more intelligent than that. Didn't imply that a chimp wrote it. Simply that the numpty is too thick to switch on his own computer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I see Jim McLeans Ghost has reappeared after a few weeks of getting his arse kicked on this thread by all and sundry. <<waves to ghostie>> His disappearance and reappearance at the same time as TSAR has sparked rumours they were on a cruise together easing each others troubled minds. In good old Fat Sally tradition I demand clarity of this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo Sergio Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I'm getting increasingly confused as to why people are taking about the legal status of buying and selling history. Surely this is prettymuch irrelevant to the situation. "Keeping their history" and "being the same club" isn't really a legal concept, ultimately, it's a footballing concept. What is relevant to the situation is a judgement in football's eyes. As a legal entity there are 2 Rangers, the old one and the new one, but in football's eyes there may be 1 Rangers (owing to the single SFA membership and the need for a continuity of punishment and liability for offending). This is where the debate lies. Personally, I don't see how it can be a different club if it's got the same membership, and is held responsible for historical misdemeanours. Others hold a different view. But it's footballing, not legal. How many trophies have The Rangers Football Club (Sevco Scotland 5088, formed 2012) won? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leepylee Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) Btw if your not already watching it then BBC alba is showing Falkirk v Middlesbrough 55 mins played 5-3 Middlesbrough last half hours sure to throw up a goal or 2 Edited July 22, 2012 by Leepylee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I'm getting increasingly confused as to why people are taking about the legal status of buying and selling history. Surely this is prettymuch irrelevant to the situation. "Keeping their history" and "being the same club" isn't really a legal concept, ultimately, it's a footballing concept. What is relevant to the situation is a judgement in football's eyes. As a legal entity there are 2 Rangers, the old one and the new one, but in football's eyes there may be 1 Rangers (owing to the single SFA membership and the need for a continuity of punishment and liability for offending). This is where the debate lies. Personally, I don't see how it can be a different club if it's got the same membership, and is held responsible for historical misdemeanours. Others hold a different view. But it's footballing, not legal. Apologies if repeating others, but are we (or others) not making it more complicated than it is. If old Rangers equals new Rangers then they accept all punishments including EBT related ones. If old Rangers does not equal new Rangers they can't claim their history or ask for transference of SFA membership. Have I just repeated what you have said in a different way? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyderspaceman Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Scots law has never recognised 'history' as an incorporeal moveable property. Like I said, if I purchased the 'history' of Rangers FC (IA), would that mean that it was fans of me who had wrecked Barcelona, rioted in Manchester etc. ? Could, for example, Aberdeen FC 'purchase' the history from AC Milan, and claim to have won umpteen Serie A titles, despite never having played in it? Nonsensical idea. IF, history can be bought, it seems, from what I've read, that the fans of Newco believe that the "history" can only really be bought by the club trying to assume the former club's mantle. I don't see why that should be the case, as you have pointed out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrugalNory Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I don't care if they inherit the oldcos history or not. But I am extremely perplexed about all of the hullabaloo prior to liquidation. Banners about "no to newco", Sending Bill Miller packing, Charles Green stating on radio that the "history goes" if the CVA isn't agreed and the actual bother of arranging a CVA at all. Why all that fuss if they just keep the history after liquidating anyway? What was the point? BTW, how many trophies did third lanark win? Can I buy their history trophy wins and transfer them to the Saintees? Thats how it works right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) Apologies if repeating others, but are we (or others) not making it more complicated than it is. If old Rangers equals new Rangers then they accept all punishments including EBT related ones. If old Rangers does not equal new Rangers they can't claim their history or ask for transference of SFA membership. Have I just repeated what you have said in a different way? I think so, yes, certainly my view would be they can't pick-n-choose what to keep... one membership and keeping the history means "the same club", but that includes keeping the bad history, including EBTs. I don't care if they inherit the oldcos history or not. But I am extremely perplexed about all of the hullabaloo prior to liquidation. Banners about "no to newco", Sending Bill Miller packing, Charles Green stating on radio that the "history goes" if the CVA isn't agreed and the actual bother of arranging a CVA at all. Why all that fuss if they just keep the history after liquidating anyway? What was the point? Well my recollection is that people's expectation of a liquidation event was them clearing the slate to "start afresh", i.e. applying for a new SFA membership, which prettymuch undeniably means a new club. BTW, how many trophies did third lanark win? Can I buy their history trophy wins and transfer them to the Saintees? Thats how it works right? Well, no, that's not how anyone engaging in a discussion above a fairly purile level is suggesting it works, IMO. And for starters Third Lanark's SFA membership ceased to exist so what would you buy? Edited July 22, 2012 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlasgowCeltic.org Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 IF, history can be bought, it seems, from what I've read, that the fans of Newco believe that the "history" can only really be bought by the club trying to assume the former club's mantle. I don't see why that should be the case, as you have pointed out. The marker for 'preserving history' has changed so many times it's difficult to keep track of. First of all it was 'agreeing a CVA lets us keep our history', which would actually have been correct. Then it was 'Once the SPL share transfers to us, we keep our history.' Now it's 'If we transfer the SFA membership, we keep our history'. If the SFA membership doesn't get transferred to the new club, we can expect some new line of nonsense along the lines of "aye, but as long as we play at Ibrox, we keep our history". Some people are just living in denial that their club is snuffed. It's quite worrying, if people were to walk around claiming that Third Lanark still existed and played football, they'd get sectioned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fife Saint Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Not sure about that. But history is an intangible asset. Goodwill (the business type) is another. These can be purchased. I would agree to some of that in the context of a solvent reconstruction or a takeover. This isn't either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry O'Driscoll Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) As far as I know that's not correct. I'm pretty sure I read some where that they had to petition (UEFA I think) for permission to add those stars - presumable precisely because they were NOT just part of a design, but signifying previously won honours. As for the rest of your post, worst analogy I've heard in a while Man City have stars on their badge for phuck all. Who actually cares what they put on their badge? Edited July 22, 2012 by Derry O'Driscoll 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Didn't imply that a chimp wrote it. Simply that the numpty is too thick to switch on his own computer. Yes, but surely one hopes said chimp would have the intellectual wherewhithal to refuse to switch on a computer for such a life form? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrugalNory Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I think so, yes, certainly my view would be they can't pick-n-choose what to keep... one membership and keeping the history means "the same club", but that includes keeping the bad history, including EBTs. Well, no, that's not how anyone engaging in a discussion above a fairly purile level is suggesting it works, IMO. And for starters Third Lanark's SFA membership ceased to exist so what would you buy? Well I'm afraid a "purile level" is about my level of understanding I'm afraid. Apologies. The suggestion is that the history is an "asset" that can be bought or sold. Tart it up any way you want, that just doesn't really stack up. Even at a nuclear physics level of understanding. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby_F Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Man City have stars on their badge for phuck all. Who actually cares what they put on their badge? I'm guessing those clubs that have earned the right to do this would? That does surprise me about Man City. Unless they're part of the design, they must be there to signify something? Whether that's been ratified by another body or not is another matter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenlantern Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 At what point does previous history stop being transferred, from club to club ? For instance, if the league membership(and all the punishments) are transferred to the new club, they could find themselves struggling again, liquidate, form a new club, apply for the previous clubs membership..... and so on, and so on. I have no idea what criteria you must fill to apply for a liquidated clubs history? Is there any football clubs out there, who's history is just waiting to be claimed? I'm sure there are some sunday league pub teams who would be quite happy to pick up the baton and carry the name of any formerly successful defunct football club. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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