Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[MattBairn]

Or they could just kick them out and let the club die.

Its not even kicking them out though. Its more not letting them in.

They are a new club with no licence, never mind league placing. If they were allowed into Div 3 it would be a MAJOR step up for them.

Edited June 19, 2012 by MattBairn

[MattBairn]

I think Rangers should suffer severe sanctions - no newco admission to SPL, SFL to decide if they admit them to division 3, existing fine, 3/4 years out of Europe and signing ban. Once that's happened they should be allowed back in and allowed to work theur wat back up.

I hated Rangers (and their 'neighbours') long before this all happened but it's important we apply the rules equally. Any team who has committed offences should pay the correct penalty then it should be over (if not necessarily forgotten).

If rules were to be applied equally they wouldnt be voted into Div 3 either. Airdrie were knocked back after they went out of business and reapplied in 2002.

Same should happen with Newco Rangers IMO (although I pretty much know it wont)

[Handsome_Devil]

you don't need to pay the yearly fee to get a vote.

i suspect that come the fans forum derek weir will lay out a strong argument as to why we can't afford to vote no. after that people will have a few choices

(i) call him a liar

(ii) say they don't care about the consequences.

(iii) pony up more cash.

You don't need to pay the fee to vote? What's it for then!? But fair enough, I guess that may persuade people to hang around in an attempt to get rid of the current board.

I doubt anyone will call Derek Weir a liar, it's hardly a surprise he'll point out the impending financial hardship. I suspect a combination of two and three is the likely outcome.

[TheTaxMan]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/06/19/sfa-must-take-action-over-rangers-mess-now-says-andy-walker-86908-23897922/

[williemillersmoustache]

Sorry to drag this O/T for a minute, but what the Hell is Archie MacPherson on about here?

http://www.heraldsco...he-act.17911467

Forget his arguments - check the mixed metaphors - the not-RFC clubs are "not a united phalanx singing from the same hymn sheet", for starters.

So, the SPL is not a military unit armed with spears and shields like the Spartans in 300 who are definitely not singing the same song of Christian devotion. Well, I can't deny it - they certainly aren't that.

And this is before we get to the Nazi storm troopers who are like people who don't believe that a dingo snatched that baby in that Australian murder/animal attack case. What?

I'll be fair and acknowledge that he gets better as he goes on, but a list of the allusions Archie makes includes: an F. Scott Fitzgerald essay; Shakespeare's Hamlet; Divining for water in the Sahara desert; The Salem Witch-trials; The Corinthian ideal; The American Tea Party and people who think Barack Obama is a Muslim Kenyan, and also the failed Darien colony.

I think what he's trying to say is, that people who are angry about Newco being admitted to the SPL are a bit like elite Ancient Greek Christian storm-troopers from Denmark, who disbelieve distraught Australian mothers and President Obama's birth certificate, and who are desperately thirsty for the ritualised (but still sporting) murder of Rangers Newco on charges of witchcraft, with Sarah Palin, in 17th century Panama.

I'm all for intelligent football writing, but this surely isn't it...

Just read the offending article in the herald. Absolute bollards. Of course the SPL aren't a united front, for a start the dons hate renegers way more than celtic .

As a wee aside, isn't it about time we heard from the SFA re SPL/SFL merger, reconvening of the AT/disrepute farago. I know it isn't a new thought but a bit of leadership hmmmm?

[Happy Buddie]

Its not even kicking them out though. Its more not letting them in.

They are a new club with no licence, never mind league placing. If they were allowed into Div 3 it would be a MAJOR step up for them.

That's the spirit, Matty boy. Keep the terminology straight. The Company which hold the SPL share has no assets, except H&D's £5.5m, and does have a team, at least until the transfer window opens. The Newco needs to "get in" not "back in".

I'm just wondering which company is paying the players' wages, for those who haven't yet transferred across.

[WeeHectorPar]

it has been mentioned before, the leagues its simple- goes to 2nd place

the cups, as rankers would have beaten not only the runners up but at least 3 other teams to the final,then Iwould think they would just strike them out with a "not rewarded due to cheats"

Not really as simple as you might think it is. What about teams which had players suspended because of red or yellow cards against Rangers or, worse still, injured playing them. Then there are the teams weakened because Rangers bought players from them. Loss of prize money meant that others couldn't buy players they may have wanted.

All league titles should be "not awarded" as happened in the case of Marseille's 92/93 win. On the basis of the attempted bribery of 2 players for one match to avoid injury before the European Cup final their title was taken away but not given to second-placed PSG. What Rangers have done reduces this to the level of a parking ticket but the principle is the same. It is imaginable that Celtic might not have signed certain players had they not been trying to beat the all-conquering Gers, which would have changed the whole set-up.

Take away their titles but let's not try to rewrite the whole of history to suit ourselves. A+B may equal C but the removal of A from the equation does not mean that B then has to equal C.

[Bookies Love Me]

If this "Newco" club is going to get booted in Div 1, as many think they are.

Wouldn't it be better to:

1. Keep them in that division for three years (unless they get relegated!!!)

2. No promotion even if they are champions

3. Audit their books yearly to prove that they are worthy enough to take a place in the SPL and Europe

This would still give all so-called "smaller" teams the advantages/disadvantages of promtion/relegation, and Div 1 promotion hopefuls would probaly get a healthier bank balance to assist in their jump up to the SPL.

[Savage Henry]

Not really as simple as you might think it is. What about teams which had players suspended because of red or yellow cards against Rangers or, worse still, injured playing them. Then there are the teams weakened because Rangers bought players from them. Loss of prize money meant that others couldn't buy players they may have wanted.

All league titles should be "not awarded" as happened in the case of Marseille's 92/93 win. On the basis of the attempted bribery of 2 players for one match to avoid injury before the European Cup final their title was taken away but not given to second-placed PSG. What Rangers have done reduces this to the level of a parking ticket but the principle is the same. It is imaginable that Celtic might not have signed certain players had they not been trying to beat the all-conquering Gers, which would have changed the whole set-up.

Take away their titles but let's not try to rewrite the whole of history to suit ourselves. A+B may equal C but the removal of A from the equation does not mean that B then has to equal C.

Totally agree. Rangers also knocked out other teams in the cups, not just the ones they defeated in the final. You can't retrospectively award cups to other teams. You either say this tournament was null and void, or say this tournament was won by Rangers FC (no longer existing) and put an asterisk next to their name to indicate malpractice.

[WeeHectorPar]

That's the spirit, Matty boy. Keep the terminology straight. The Company which hold the SPL share has no assets, except H&D's £5.5m, and does have a team, at least until the transfer window opens. The Newco needs to "get in" not "back in".

I'm just wondering which company is paying the players' wages, for those who haven't yet transferred across.

I think Sevco is "lending" them at the moment, though not like an EBT; they will HAVE to be paid back at sometime in the future.

[Happy Buddie]

One sanction which should be applied, but hasn't been mentioned yet is a choice of strip to reflect the years of cheating, tax evasion, bigotry, intimidation etc, etc. The SFA should impose a strip so that every time they take to the field they carry the mark of their shame with them. What would be your "uniform" of choice for The New Rangers in Div Whatever? My choice would be black and white hoops from the shirt, through the shorts and right down to the socks with only black boots allowed. (just like the old silent movie convicts)

Edited June 19, 2012 by Happy Buddie

[Swello]

why do you think the society will collapse from this? no one i know in the society will abandon it no matter what way we vote. i don't think their is massive correlation between society members and outraged forum posters.

also no one can get their money back now anyway and most people will be fully paid up.

The main point is not really the existing members as such - they have our cash. The 'Well Society has only just passed the initial milestone for incorporation but it still needs a lot more capital before the "overdraft" is fully stocked and the member numbers are sufficient to have enough board places to become a "fan run" club. I am working on the assumption that the vast majority of those signed up so far are the real die-hards in our support, or in other words, the easiest to persuade to part with their cash. The remaining people that we need are likely to made up of some similar diehards that couldn't afford it at the time and "others" who it will be a harder job to persuade. I would imagine that if the main selling point of the scheme is that we get a say in the big decisions around our club, these people will be become a lot harder to persuade if the club acts against the clear wishes of the support in general and the already paid-up members in particular. The clear danger for the 'Well society (and for the club as a whole) is that it is delivered stillborn and stuck with the current insufficient funds and a membership who will lack sufficient seats in the Boardroom to make a real difference.

I am cynical about boycotts and "ah'll no be back" as usually it is an empty threat - but getting people to actively part with their cash and engage with the Society is a different thing altogether - and that is what is at stake here.

[sjc]

1942 - The end of the beginning not the beginning of the end..........just like El Alamein.

[ayrmad]

One sanction which should be applied, but hasn't been mentioned yet is a choice of strip to reflect the years of cheating, tax evasion, bigotry, intimidation etc, etc. The SFA should impose a strip so that every time they take to the filed they carry the mark of their shame with them. What would be your "uniform" of choice for The New Rangers in Div Whatever? My choice would be black and white hoops from the shirt, through the shorts and right down to the socks with only black boots allowed. (just like the old silent movie convicts)

An apt slip of the finger, if that word was in the vocab at Ibrox we wouldn't be in this mess so soon.

[Broccoli Dog]

One sanction which should be applied, but hasn't been mentioned yet is a choice of strip to reflect the years of cheating, tax evasion, bigotry, intimidation etc, etc. The SFA should impose a strip so that every time they take to the field they carry the mark of their shame with them. What would be your "uniform" of choice for The New Rangers in Div Whatever? My choice would be black and white hoops from the shirt, through the shorts and right down to the socks with only black boots allowed. (just like the old silent movie convicts)

Just brown. Just a solid, shitey brown, no badges or logos.

[Dundee Hibernian]

FIFA Fair Play 2012

Hurry, hurry, SFA: you have to have your order for t-shirts caps and banners in by tomorrow at the latest.

These Fair Play Days have been running for a number of years. The SFA has, in fact, previously selected games at Ibrox to highlight the concept of 'Fair Play', by having huge banner displays and ceremonies, with the players following the correct player 'handshake' protocols before and after the matches.

Wonder who will be awarded the Fair Play Days' ceremonies in the future?

We need to know, in the interests of transparency.

[Sam Leitch Loyal]

Good grief! Never thought I'd see the day where a Mike Oldfield video was posted on P&B.

Mind you, if there was ever a thread it was going to happen on....

Haud on a couple of years and there will be another one on the TA Forum:

(Never Going To Get) To France.

[T_S_A_R]

I am cynical about boycotts and "ah'll no be back" as usually it is an empty threat - but getting people to actively part with their cash and engage with the Society is a different thing altogether - and that is what is at stake here.

i think the society will grow over the years. we have plent of guys in their late teens/early 20s in the support who probably didn't sign up but may do in a few years time when their circumstances have changed.

also if people are unhappy about the way the club is being run then that should encourage them to join the society. if this was happening when the society was fully up and running the debate would be very different.

[Wokcomble]

Ok how about this for a guess as to how things will pan out, not suggesting it's right, not suggesting for a moment it WILL happen but just a scenario;

SFA will suspend Rangers FC for 12 months for outstanding disrepute charge

SFA will also suspend Rangers FC for 12 months for dual contracts charge

Both suspensions will be served concurrently ie; Rangers play no football at all in season 2012-2013

The SPL announce that from season 2013-2014 they are going to create a second tier SPL and invite the top X clubs from SFL 1 to apply to join. (The size of those leagues I can't even begin to hazzard a guess at but let's suppose 2 x 12 for arguments sake)

Newco vote comes on July 4th, clubs agree to transfer Rangers share to newco, but (noting the SFA have already suspended anyway) only on condition that they accept demotion to SPL 2

Season 2013-2014 kicks off with two SPL tiers, Rangers being in the second rung, potentially one further season away from rejoining the top tier if they secured promotion

MY REASONS BEHIND THE THEORY..........

I can't honestly see any way that Rangers (or "Rangers" if you want to call them that) can escapes suspension next season. The charges already against them are severe and the menu of punishments that the court of session has mandated they are given can only be suspension, explusion or scottish cup expulsion and the SFA's own lawyer said that the appelgate tribunal deemed the last of these to be too lenient.

Dual contracts charge is even more severe but by serving suspensions concurrently SFA can appease Rangers (a bit !) and keep them out of football for only 1 year

SPL are desperate to retain power and veto any move from SFA to take control. Expanding to two tiers ensures power is retained.

SPL can offer Sky incentive of two tier SPL from next season, "Rangers" bringing coverage to the new second tier.

"Rangers" only really miss one season of what could well be third division football anyway

Clubs get to fudge the newco vote, they can vote Yes to transfer, but offer "relegation" to the new SPL 2 as being the "punishment"

"Rangers" potentially only out of top tier SPL for 2 seasons and out of SPL completely for just 1 season. Appeases SKY, appeases chairmen and sponsors.

Fans get some sort of re-structure of the game

There is no time to create SPL 2 in time for the season coming, the suspension buys the SPL a year to sort it out

It might be fanciful, might still not be deemed to be "fair" but I can't think of any other way the game can survive without major boycotts or financial wobbles all over the place.

Only snag of course is what "Rangers" do for the next 12 months. Maybe go on a world tour playing exhibition games, not sure, haven't an answer for that !

The easiest solution for all this is for the SFA to acknowledge that Rangers F.C. as we knew them are DEAD.

Let there be an enquiry into the past by all means but why complicate matters - titles can eventually be stripped if required, but should have no bearing whatsover on a NEWCO.

Let the SFA determine which league any NEWCO be admitted to, AND TELL THEM THEY ARE A NEW CLUB WITH NO HISTORY.

[Florentine_Pogen]

For anyone who didn't catch 'Off The Ball' on Saturday, here's a wee link to BBC iPlayer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01jxxj4/Off_the_Ball_16_06_2012/

The good stuff re. DeadH*n & Newcorpse kicks in at about 5m50secs. Chapeau to Stuart Cosgrove for his concise thoughts.