thenolly Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Do the creditors have to wait till the creditors meeting to tell Duff beers & Pelts to stick their offer, or could they do it sooner. Also who is going to pay the £2million wages for next month with no income? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooper Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) Why do you think that? Even if they lose the BTC, lose Collyer Bristow court case, fail to get a CVA, lose an SFA appeal over the transfer embargo etc. The fact remains that Charles Green's group will buy the important assets for £5.5M and have the SPL share transferred to a NewCo. The SPL have accepted this as a legitimate means of restructuring the football club so Rangers (in some form) are more than likely going to be playing in the SPL next season. Not if HMRC submit a winding up application on the grounds that the assets should be sold and the proceeds distributed among the creditors. Who exactly sanctions this clause whereby Green has first refusal on the assets in the event of liquidation? It sounds like more convoluted D&P shite to me. Edited May 30, 2012 by Drooper 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 No I wouldn't want my club to be in their position, cos we're little old Hamilton Accies with just a few thousand fans. The SFA could shut us down and there wouldn't be a lot Accies fans as group could do about it. Rangers are a different kettle of fish. A few hundred thousand fans over the country, with plenty of nutcases thrown in. Look at those two lads who got done for sending fake nail bombs to prominent Celtic supporters. Look at the the thousands of Rangers fans who marched on Hampden. Look at what the Rangers fans in Manchester did when a screen broke down FFS! Anyone who shuts Rangers down will be looking over their shoulder for at least a good few years. That's one major reason why I think they'll survive, nobody has the balls to make themselves a target of the braindead section of the OF support. To be honest I can't blame them, I wouldn't put myself in that position either. Expulsion might be out, but suspension could be interesting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazza1910 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I would be staggered if they got a CVA through. So their SPL future hinges on a newco vote. As we've seen today, it will be close. Oh, nearly forgot, they still have to get over BTC, FIFA/SFA punishment, SPL sanctions for double contracts. Stop me if I've forgotten anything. What does SFA suspension mean? Anybody spell it out? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knapdarloch Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Does anyone else think that by having no sanctions in writing, the SPL have left the door open for a Newco to enter the SPL scot-free? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18263819 What would be to stop any sanctioned Newco simply taking the SPL to court like Rangers did with the SFA? Would it have been prudent to list a whole raft of potential sanctions which the board could refer to, and pick from, in the event of a Newco wanting straight in? Apologies to anyone clicking on that link to be greeted by Doncaster's smug, smug face. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 No I wouldn't want my club to be in their position, cos we're little old Hamilton Accies with just a few thousand fans. The SFA could shut us down and there wouldn't be a lot Accies fans as group could do about it. Rangers are a different kettle of fish. A few hundred thousand fans over the country, with plenty of nutcases thrown in. Look at those two lads who got done for sending fake nail bombs to prominent Celtic supporters. Look at the the thousands of Rangers fans who marched on Hampden. Look at what the Rangers fans in Manchester did when a screen broke down FFS! Anyone who shuts Rangers down will be looking over their shoulder for at least a good few years. That's one major reason why I think they'll survive, nobody has the balls to make themselves a target of the braindead section of the OF support. To be honest I can't blame them, I wouldn't put myself in that position either. I would.........I'd even sell tickets at £5 a go to officially see the Big Hoose close.........then like Fergus McCann I'd piss off into the sunset with a shitload of cash ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEADOWXI Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Just going back to RTC and the hint at people receiving EBTs not yet named. Have we any clues to who these people are? Smith and McCoist are obvious names. Who else could it be that would cause more of a stir than that? Hugh Dallas perhaps or opposition managers/chairmen? The perfect names would be someone like Dalglish just after he left Celtic, or Granpa Watty when Scotland manager for making sure Rangers players were rested and not overplayed on international duty. And with the stuff that has come out in the last weeks almost anything is possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Once a CVA is agreed all debts accrued to that point are paid by the CVA. If Rangers lose their appeal then the BTC is paid from the CVA fund and Rangers are in the clear but it doesn't void the case or debt, it just means HMRC get more of the CVA pot. Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spain Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 For anyone who's interested by the way, Neil Doncaster's wikipedia page is only protected until June 1st 2012 and can then be edited by anyone. Just saying... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngsod Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 At the risk of coming over all geeky, with regard to the acceptance of the CVA at amounts of 4-6p in the pound can I bring your attention to Game Theory, in particular the Ultimatum Game. As an example, two people are given £1000. It is up to one person to decide how to split that. The second person can either accept what's given to them -in which case the money is shared as per the first person's decision, or turn it down - in which case both parties get nothing. Now if the first person offers a 99% / 1% split, then pure logic states that the second person will accept this. After all getting £10 is better than nothing, even if the other person is getting £990. The thing is, in real life people don’t do that. They see the offer as derisory, and would rather accept nothing. People like things to be fair, and if they don't perceive what is going on as being fair, they are prepared to suffer in order to punish those they see as the source of the unfairness. Now the acceptable split varies, but has been measured at up to 60:40 being rejected. Add to this, the other, manifold, areas of injustice perceived surrounding this particular case and there is not really a very compelling case to accept the CVA. Now I know we are really with corporations and not individuals, but businesses are far from rational entities either, as I'm sure we've all witnessed recently. If you are interested: http://www.altruists.org/ideas/economics/behavioral/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimatum_game http://www.gametheorystrategies.com/2011/08/01/when-would-you-turn-down-free-money/ My more gut instinct is this: Rangers are dead, they've run out of money, they've run out of options and they've even managed to run out of the goodwill of others. All of this circus at the moment is because no one person or body wants to be seen as the one to deliver the coup-de-grace and put them out of their misery. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambos Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) I really don't get the relentless negativity of so many fans of every club bar Rangers about this situation. Ask yourself, would you want your club to be in the position they are in now, future utterly dependent on a low sum of cash pumped in by asset strippers, votes of the hapless SFA and SPL, and of course HMRC. Remember, all of those bodies basically have to do what Rangers need just for them to survive in some weakened, b*****dised form that is also likely to be stripped of current voting privilege just to exist. I'd be at my wit's end if it was my club. Best case scenario for Rangers 2012 is that they survive. What's your beef guys? ((Bast-ardised is not a swear word, by the way, mr filter!) Oh I don't know. Watching ineligible players like Laudrup and Gascoine rip my team apart in the league and a scottish cup final. Non payment of fee for Lee Wallace...I don't know why we'd all be upset. Edited May 30, 2012 by Jambos 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambos Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 What does SFA suspension mean? Anybody spell it out? Thats what I'd like to know. Surely if it means for even one season, they wouldnt be able to survive and will just create a newco anyway? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobardon Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Does anyone else think that by having no sanctions in writing, the SPL have left the door open for a Newco to enter the SPL scot-free? http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/18263819 What would be to stop any sanctioned Newco simply taking the SPL to court like Rangers did with the SFA? Would it have been prudent to list a whole raft of potential sanctions which the board could refer to, and pick from, in the event of a Newco wanting straight in? Apologies to anyone clicking on that link to be greeted by Doncaster's smug, smug face. The reason the SFA got taken to Court was precisely because they had spelled out what punishments could be given, and then ignored their own list. By not specifying anything it does indeed allow no penalty at all, but also every other sanction all the way to expulsion. This gives no recourse to any such legal action as all options are available. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Thats what I'd like to know. Surely if it means for even one season, they wouldnt be able to survive and will just create a newco anyway? Presumably it's a season suspension from SFA membership and ergo from being able to play in the league/cup. The doozy would be that the SPL would need another club in to make up a 12.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 If they lose the BTC, though, it would be highly unlikely for them not to fall foul of the dual contracts investigation too. If the tax man proves they have been paying players salary through the EBT and this salary isnt on the contract registered with the SPL, its hard to see how they could find otherwise. The action taken against them for, what would amount to years of systematic and systemic cheating, cannot possibly be trivial the ftt doesn't have to find them guilty of having dual contracts for them to lose the tax case. they only need to decide that the scheme wasn't used in the manner which they now say it was supposed to be. i would imagine the sfa need more concrete evidence of dual contracts than the ftt. does anyone know if the sfa operate a policy of 'the balance of probabilities' or 'beyond reasonable doubt'? i think the sfa might be a bit coy about this investigation. eventually someone is going to ask them why didn't make inquiries about the millions leaving rangers and going into MIH EBT scheme every year when it was documented in the annual auditied accounts that the sfa were given by rangers each year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobardon Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Oh I don't know. Watching intelligible players like Laudrup and Gascoine rip my team apart in the league and a scottish cup final. Non payment of fee for Lee Wallace...I don't know why we'd all be upset. At least the players are intelligible. Anyway, I'm not saying I don't understand why people want Rangers punished, just don't understand why they are leaping to the conclusion that all will be peachy for Rangers come July. That seems pretty much the least likely option on the table for them right now, regardless of their perceived importance to Scottish football. Because that importance means little or nothing to their creditors or UEFA/FIFA, who largely have the say over their future. Neil Doncaster doesn't get the overall say on what happens to them, You all know that, right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazza1910 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Presumably it's a season suspension from SFA membership and ergo from being able to play in the league/cup. The doozy would be that the SPL would need another club in to make up a 12.. And when the suspension is up? Where do Rangers fit in then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedruleFTD83 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 My understanding is that a Fine, a Suspension or Expulsion are the possible sanctions. Why is everyone touting a Scottish Cup ban. Isn't that just swapping one wrong sanction for another? A Scottish Cup ban is nothing, not a fit punishment whatsoever. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) And when the suspension is up? Where do Rangers fit in then? That's the big question. Are they made to start at the bottom or do they fit back in the SPL (presumably they would have to expand to 14 to be entirely fair) Be interesting if the SFA go that way. Edited May 30, 2012 by chico 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weirdcal Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 If I win that pesky euromillions on Friday and rangers are liquidated I will out bid green for the stadium and turn it into a music stadium. I will then rename it international bands rox park (I.b.rox park) Ibrox is saved and fans may actually get to go there an enjoy the songs for a change. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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