Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[HibeeJibee]

Johnston has always stuck by wanting an expanded league. He has used the rangers situation to place himself at the head of the "pro-democracy faction". He wants league expansion & fair voting rights and now he wants a newco straight back in. His position and the potential for compromise deals are clear. I'm not thrilled with his statements, but it's obvious what he's aiming for.

True, but wasn't Killie 1 of only 3 clubs backing 14, after 10 collapsed?

I advocate 14, btw - just being realistic.

[Guest Kincardine]

Even if the SPL chairmen stab their own fans in the back, there's still another way to slay the beast - this time at source.

It might be worthwhile tipping off our American friends in the media as to the nature of the business Bill Miller is intending to buy into.

As the USA is the Land Of The Lobby Group, I'm sure the "Irish Americans" in New York and Boston will be interested to hear about Rangers less than glorious history of anti-Catholicism and their fans continuing gleeful association with this; the Anti-Defamation League and the Reverends Jackson and Shapton will be interested to hear about Rangers lukewarm attempts to stop far-right groups selling their tatty rags outside Ibrox on Saturdays - and why do they ONLY target Rangers in Scotland anyway? Why do they think Rangers in particular are so susceptible to "White Power" politics when they have black players? Or is that just for show?

I'm sure this and many other such questions will lead to investors and customers of Mr Miller having a quiet word in his ear that if he decides to buy up and save a club with the financial integrity of Kenneth Lay and the societal morality of the Ku Klux Klan, he will find his various business interests subject to economic boycotts - egged on no doubt by his many business competitors.

Should concentrate his mind wonderfully as to whether Rangers are worth the bother, over and above the financial risks.

Aye that would certainly get the WASPs in the US of A telt. Well done.

[Newbornbairn]

I've sussed the connection Bill Miller has with Rangers. His company is based in Tennessee - hillbilly country. Obviously there's a deep spiritual connection and I'm sure the orc songwriters are busy re-imagining some classics like "Hello, hello, we are the hillbilly boys".

[Waspie]

Aye that would certainly get the WASPs in the US of A telt. Well done.

Can't see why the Alloa fans over in the States would give a flying f*ck to be honest.

[GirondistNYC]

1336252136[/url]' post='6205750']

Even if the SPL chairmen stab their own fans in the back, there's still another way to slay the beast - this time at source.

It might be worthwhile tipping off our American friends in the media as to the nature of the business Bill Miller is intending to buy into.

As the USA is the Land Of The Lobby Group, I'm sure the "Irish Americans" in New York and Boston will be interested to hear about Rangers less than glorious history of anti-Catholicism and their fans continuing gleeful association with this; the Anti-Defamation League and the Reverends Jackson and Shapton will be interested to hear about Rangers lukewarm attempts to stop far-right groups selling their tatty rags outside Ibrox on Saturdays - and why do they ONLY target Rangers in Scotland anyway? Why do they think Rangers in particular are so susceptible to "White Power" politics when they have black players? Or is that just for show?

I'm sure this and many other such questions will lead to investors and customers of Mr Miller having a quiet word in his ear that if he decides to buy up and save a club with the financial integrity of Kenneth Lay and the societal morality of the Ku Klux Klan, he will find his various business interests subject to economic boycotts - egged on no doubt by his many business competitors.

Should concentrate his mind wonderfully as to whether Rangers are worth the bother, over and above the financial risks.

Long time lurker, first post. I live in the US and as much as I ish it were otherwise there won't be any pressure on this side of the Atlantic against Miller's bid. Irish America pressure groups have been in decline for decades and are riven by factionalism. When they do act it tends to be on issues like immigration reform (again a pressing issue) or easily graspable media issues like a negative portrayal in a film or TV show. If Miller was in a retail business that could be easily boycotted it might be a different story, but no tow company operator is going to let a far away soccer team influence a major business decision like buying a truck. As for general far right nastiness, anti-Catholic prejudice has declined so steeply in the US that most people have a very hard time taking it seriously when there are bigger home grown divisions. The ADL really won't care.

The real question for me is whether Miller has any idea of what a rotten pup he is buying. Having spent many years in soccer pubs explaining my support of Celtic and Scottish football to Americans who are overwhelmingly fixated on the EPL, Mexican teams and a handful of global giants like Barcelona I can attest to how difficult it is to explain the nuances of the old firm to people who come from a sporting culture where nothing similar has ever really existed. US sporting affiliations are overwhelmingly local or based on personal history (where you went to University). There aren't political affiliations tied to teams like in Italy and Germany, and while some teams have been more popular with minorities because of groundbreaking players that changes when the players change (e.g. Boston in the NBA was for a time viewed as a "white" team, but that ended quickly). I have a very hard time believing that Miller grasps the nature of the peepul and how toxic the brand is throughout the UK. I'm fairly sure if Miller read a stack of Rangers Media posts he wouldn't understand what separates that cesspool from, say, an particularly active forum involving QPR. You need some background to get the "tarrier" references and the crab flute thing.

On the plus side, if Miller thinks there is an untapped market for Rangers in the US he is delusional. The SPL only got on cable here this season and the EPL has been making converts at a very rapid clip. Watching the dregs that will be left after off-season departures isn't a compelling sporting case when you can in good conscience pick ManU or Barca to support, and unlike Celtic there isn't a large pool of people with a potential sentimental attachment to the idea of the club. Most Scots came to the US a very, very long time ago and to the extent thy think of their Scottish roots at all they think of glens, bagpipes and Braveheart not Govan, flute bands and Knox. In my experience the type of evangelical Christian who might buy ino certain aspects of Rangers....err...appeal loathe soccer almost as a point of pride. Celtics appeal in the US is limited compared to the EPL, but Rangers is nonexistent.

I think Miller is probably a smart businessman and is planning to run the club with ruthless fiscal discipline, sanctions or no sanctions. I just don't think he realizes the backlash that will follow.

Sorry for the long first post, but figured I'd add a perspective from this side of th Atlantic since the issue was raised.

[Jussy]

True, but wasn't Killie 1 of only 3 clubs backing 14, after 10 collapsed?

I advocate 14, btw - just being realistic.

I agree, realistically, unfortunately it doesn't have much backing. Nonetheless, I'm certain Johnston will use this to try to wangle some concessions. First out the traps and quite a convincing sort of guy. It'll be more enlightening to see what the other chairmen, who don't have a history of wanting structural change, have to say. Johnston's position was pretty much a certainty given what he has to gain (voting & league restructuring) and the club's financial predicament. Whether the other chairmen see things quite so black & white will be the decider on whether we end up with newco in the league and whether anything will ever change structurally.

[Fife Saint]

Interesting, cheers.

[gastropod]

anyhow ,, heres my tuppence worth ... a) miller wont put a definate bid down, something willl spook him... b) somebody willl f**k up any kind of bid being concrete, eg BK , tax folk, ticketus, sfa, players union, custard, the diddies , craig whyte(white) , a court case,, sone aluko,, rangers fans etc etc , next wikend were still here..

[makepeace]

Long time lurker, first post. I live in the US and as much as I ish it were otherwise there won't be any pressure on this side of the Atlantic against Miller's bid. Irish America pressure groups have been in decline for decades and are riven by factionalism. When they do act it tends to be on issues like immigration reform (again a pressing issue) or easily graspable media issues like a negative portrayal in a film or TV show. If Miller was in a retail business that could be easily boycotted it might be a different story, but no tow company operator is going to let a far away soccer team influence a major business decision like buying a truck. As for general far right nastiness, anti-Catholic prejudice has declined so steeply in the US that most people have a very hard time taking it seriously when there are bigger home grown divisions. The ADL really won't care.

The real question for me is whether Miller has any idea of what a rotten pup he is buying. Having spent many years in soccer pubs explaining my support of Celtic and Scottish football to Americans who are overwhelmingly fixated on the EPL, Mexican teams and a handful of global giants like Barcelona I can attest to how difficult it is to explain the nuances of the old firm to people who come from a sporting culture where nothing similar has ever really existed. US sporting affiliations are overwhelmingly local or based on personal history (where you went to University). There aren't political affiliations tied to teams like in Italy and Germany, and while some teams have been more popular with minorities because of groundbreaking players that changes when the players change (e.g. Boston in the NBA was for a time viewed as a "white" team, but that ended quickly). I have a very hard time believing that Miller grasps the nature of the peepul and how toxic the brand is throughout the UK. I'm fairly sure if Miller read a stack of Rangers Media posts he wouldn't understand what separates that cesspool from, say, an particularly active forum involving QPR. You need some background to get the "tarrier" references and the crab flute thing.

On the plus side, if Miller thinks there is an untapped market for Rangers in the US he is delusional. The SPL only got on cable here this season and the EPL has been making converts at a very rapid clip. Watching the dregs that will be left after off-season departures isn't a compelling sporting case when you can in good conscience pick ManU or Barca to support, and unlike Celtic there isn't a large pool of people with a potential sentimental attachment to the idea of the club. Most Scots came to the US a very, very long time ago and to the extent thy think of their Scottish roots at all they think of glens, bagpipes and Braveheart not Govan, flute bands and Knox. In my experience the type of evangelical Christian who might buy ino certain aspects of Rangers....err...appeal loathe soccer almost as a point of pride. Celtics appeal in the US is limited compared to the EPL, but Rangers is nonexistent.

I think Miller is probably a smart businessman and is planning to run the club with ruthless fiscal discipline, sanctions or no sanctions. I just don't think he realizes the backlash that will follow.

Sorry for the long first post, but figured I'd add a perspective from this side of th Atlantic since the issue was raised.

thanks for that post. good to see things from accross the pond perspective.

remember going into an irish pub in new york with a couple of friends, and about an hour into us being there the pub filled up with ice hockey fans: the new york rangers. To see so many 'rangers' fans in what would be culturally here a 'celtic' pub was surreal haha

[Guest Kincardine]

I have a very hard time believing that Miller grasps the nature of the peepul and how toxic the brand is throughout the UK.

Most of your post shows you as a pathetic loner and this sentence highlights you as an ignoramous.

This comment that we're a 'toxic brand throughout the UK' is utter shite. Go to an average pub in London to watch a match and say you're a Rangers fan and the average person will say one of two things: "Is that the Catholic team or the Protestant team?" or "It's easy for you; there's only 2 teams".

I live close to London. I go to pubs to watch Rangers when I can't get to Ibrox. I have never once heard anything like 'toxic brand' mentioned. Maybe "Who are you?" a few times - but that's ok.

[Enigma]

Most of your post shows you as a pathetic loner and this sentence highlights you as an ignoramous.

This comment that we're a 'toxic brand throughout the UK' is utter shite. Go to an average pub in London to watch a match and say you're a Rangers fan and the average person will say one of two things: "Is that the Catholic team or the Protestant team?" or "It's easy for you; there's only 2 teams".

I live close to London. I go to pubs to watch Rangers when I can't get to Ibrox. I have never once heard anything like 'toxic brand' mentioned. Maybe "Who are you?" a few times - but that's ok.

Try watching them in Manchester and see what reaction you get.

[p&b is a disgrace]

Most of your post shows you as a pathetic loner and this sentence highlights you as an ignoramous.

This comment that we're a 'toxic brand throughout the UK' is utter shite. Go to an average pub in London to watch a match and say you're a Rangers fan and the average person will say one of two things: "Is that the Catholic team or the Protestant team?" or "It's easy for you; there's only 2 teams".

I live close to London. I go to pubs to watch Rangers when I can't get to Ibrox. I have never once heard anything like 'toxic brand' mentioned. Maybe "Who are you?" a few times - but that's ok.

There is none so blind as he who will not see.

[gastropod]

this has got to be part of of scottisn footballs evolotion.. drop this old firm shite,, dont even argue the religioius shite , its the single thing that kills everything...who fuckin cares .. right now , everybody is going to boycocott everybody,, its like a masss suicide.. i would like to see some real sense/ fairness and ambition come from this fuckin mess..

[GordieBoy80]

I'm starting to think Dunfermline might win a home game before any decisions are taken at Ibrox.

[Guest Kincardine]

Try watching them in Manchester and see what reaction you get.

Silly point. I have done and had no reaction. Mostly recently was October last year for a Hearts game and had an enjoyable evening.

[Guest Kincardine]

There is none so blind as he who will not see.

See what? Most people in the UK do not give a f**k about Rangers.

[Martian86]

this has got to be part of of scottisn footballs evolotion.. drop this old firm shite,, dont even argue the religioius shite , its the single thing that kills everything...who fuckin cares .. right now , everybody is going to boycocott everybody,, its like a masss suicide.. i would like to see some real sense/ fairness and ambition come from this fuckin mess..

Gid post!

[Jussy]

Silly point. I have done and had no reaction. Mostly recently was October last year for a Hearts game and had an enjoyable evening.

Afternoon surely? Wasn't this the game on the Apprentice and it was an early kick off? Maybe it wasn't rangers you were watching if it was the evening that this happened...

[GirondistNYC]

1336259662[/url]' post='6206048']

Most of your post shows you as a pathetic loner and this sentence highlights you as an ignoramous.

This comment that we're a 'toxic brand throughout the UK' is utter shite. Go to an average pub in London to watch a match and say you're a Rangers fan and the average person will say one of two things: "Is that the Catholic team or the Protestant team?" or "It's easy for you; there's only 2 teams".

I live close to London. I go to pubs to watch Rangers when I can't get to Ibrox. I have never once heard anything like 'toxic brand' mentioned. Maybe "Who are you?" a few times - but that's ok.

I lived in London for quite a while and agree that's a pretty common response to announcing you're an Old Firm supporter. I think you're glossing over the subtext to "is that the Catholic team or the Protestant team?". Lots of English people find the whole thing rather distasteful, archaic and rather beyond the likes of Southampton v. Portsmouth. This applies equally to both of course. I do think events in Manchester crystallized some per existing toxic stereotypes of Rangers -- all Chelsea and Millwall supporters infiltrating your spotless ranks, of course but it does tend to come up rather frequently when Rangers are mentioned. I also believe many people across the UK view Rangers as having defrauded the inland revenue in a time of acute austerity, and that leads them to view Rangers negatively. I think there is much less sympathy for Rangers that Portsmouth or Darlington, and that "toxic" isn't too strong a term.

Your desire to peg me as a "pathetic loner" based on one post strikes me as a bit odd.

[Cutty Old]

Most of your post shows you as a pathetic loner and this sentence highlights you as an ignoramous.

This comment that we're a 'toxic brand throughout the UK' is utter shite. Go to an average pub in London to watch a match and say you're a Rangers fan and the average person will say one of two things: "Is that the Catholic team or the Protestant team?" or "It's easy for you; there's only 2 teams".

I live close to London. I go to pubs to watch Rangers when I can't get to Ibrox. I have never once heard anything like 'toxic brand' mentioned. Maybe "Who are you?" a few times - but that's ok.

The term 'loner' is perfect to describe Rangers as an entity at this moment and probably for the foreseeable fuure. It's therefore ironic that you decided to use that description. Are you on the lookout for some sort of kindred spirit in these difficult times ?