sjc Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I do wish they'd hurry up an vanish from our game for good so we can make a start on getting rid of that other lot ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckinho Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Currants on Follow Follow apparently suggesting a pitch invasion to protest at something or other. Probably wont be as offensive as the league invasion they are planning for next season 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Are you cvnts all thick tarrier paedos or what! MILLER IS A BILLIONAIRE. Bead rattlers the lot of you. Oh wait bit of Deja vu kicking there. That's very good - you've got potential. (I see you had to edit it - more credibility points.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipster Dufus Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Currants on Follow Follow apparently suggesting a pitch invasion to protest at something or other. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Is it? Its been pretty well documented in recent weeks that tax avoidance schemes are legal, at the time anyway. Tax evasion is a crime Sure, and tax avoidance is perfectly legal right up until the time when it isn't. You can call it what you want, but if HMRC don't agree with you, there's not much you can do about it except appeal. The old saying "Tax avoidance is legal, tax evasion isn't" is a catchphrase employed by accountants to reassure clients. It's bollocks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Sure, and tax avoidance is perfectly legal right up until the time when it isn't. You can call it what you want, but if HMRC don't agree with you, there's not much you can do about it except appeal. The old saying "Tax avoidance is legal, tax evasion isn't" is a catchphrase employed by accountants to reassure clients. It's bollocks. No offence mate, but that is bollocks. You can indeed appeal. That's what happens when 2 sides to a dispute disagree. One of you will be right, and it aint always HMRC. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTaxMan Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I thought he was closing in on them lol. http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/rangers-close-in-on-mary-river-croc/story-e6freoof-1226345188468 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) No offence mate, but that is bollocks. You can indeed appeal. So, not bollocks then. Cheers. My point is that the line between avoidance and evasion is a blurred smudge and there's very little to separate the two other than how HMRC/the treasury feel about it. Edited May 2, 2012 by Baxter Parp 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckinho Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Rangers definietly don't look too appealing when they are appealing 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckinho Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) I thought he was closing in on them lol. http://www.courierma...f-1226345188468 Mr Northam said the plan was to lure the animal into a long cage that had a pig bait at one end. Pig's arse. Edited May 2, 2012 by Chuckinho 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkYardley'sNo.1Fan Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 With regards Rangers punishment, I think it really has to be all or nothing. If they're relegated to one of the lower leagues then it'll generally be seen as strong leadership with integrity intact, if they stay in the SPL with no further punishment then there will be uproar, if they stay in the SPL with sanctions then there will still be uproar but there will also be no chance of a decent title race in the coming years. Rangers might be too weak to challenge anyway but adding sanctions will just compound the issue. Am I the only non-OF fan who actually enjoys their battles for the title? Given the choice between a 1 horse race and a 2 horse race I know what I'd pick. If Rangers are being kept in the SPL to preserve the TV deal then you have to ask are SKY really interested in paying top dollar for an SPL with a pish Rangers team who can't sign anyone starting on -10 points? All or nothing. My gut feeling at the moment is that they'll end up in the First Division with no sanctions. What I can't comprehend about all this is the stance of clubs like St. Johnstone. St. Johnstone, St. Mirren, ICT and Dunfermline have all had significant periods in the First Division in recent years where there's no TV money, no OF, no Aberdeen, no Hearts, no Hibs and they all survived. Now all they are being asked to do is survive 3 seasons (at most) without one half of the OF and St. Johnstone are coming out with 'we NEED Rangers in the SPL!'. That's clearly pish. You want Rangers in the SPL, it's more valuable with them in it, I can accept that. What I can't accept is being lied to and treated like a fucking mug. If Stewart Gilmour comes out and says he's in favour of keeping Rangers in the SPL because he's in the process of selling his shares and he wants the best price possible then fair enough, I might not agree with it but I'd respect the honesty. What I can't be arsed with is all the nonsense about how we'd die a slow lingering death without RFC, that's a fucking lie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooper Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) Am I the only non-OF fan who actually enjoys their battles for the title? You'd get decent odds on that. William Hill anyone? ETA: not being a betting man, I'm now not sure whether that should have been poor odds Edited May 2, 2012 by Drooper 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckinho Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Are fans of diddy teams really going to stop buying season tickets if the newco goes straight back inot the SPL? In sufficient numbers to make a difference? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I don't think Rangers will be the only football team to have fallen behind on their PAYE payments to be fair. And I dont see any other clubs being severely punished for it. Partick Thistle fell behind on their PAYE and NI a few seasons ago due to financial mismanagement. Instead of going into administration, they sold two of their best players, took the medicine and paid the taxes, before stabilising the cash flow by paying down debt by selling bits of the stadium. If Rangers refuse to live within their means, then the punishment is deserved. End of. The point is that Partick fell about £300K behind and were able to find a way out of trouble. Just as Hearts sudden £1m tax bill last year was sufficient to cause a cashflow crisis and some embarassing late salary runs but the transfer window opening, a cup run and the start of Season ticket sales meant that they could stabilise the situation. In terms of the proportion of turnover the crisises at Firhill and Tynecastle are roughly equivelant to Rangers small tax case and if the small tax case was all Rangers had to worry about they could have taken Partick's approach and covered the debt by selling off Jelavic, narrowly lost the title and had another shot at it next season. Even allowing for the size of Rangers (2011 Turnover £34m) their liabilities to ther revenue look to be more like two years worth of revenue as opposed to two months. The reason Cammy35 hasn't heard about any other clubs being severely punished for it is because no club has screwed up as severely as Rangers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killingfloorman Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 It was mentioned (about 614 pages approx) ago that everyone involved (Whyte, Minty, ex directors, SFA, SPL etc. ) were shiteing themselves about the prospect of liquidation as it lets real accountants (i.e. not H&D) investigate the books for the past few years. Just sayin'... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 HMRC punishment is for "breaking the law" and tax evasion. Is it? Its been pretty well documented in recent weeks that tax avoidance schemes are legal, at the time anyway. Tax evasion is a crime Tax avoidance can be illegal. It is a term used to describe tax schemes that simply will not be pursued in a criminal court. Some avoidance schemes are illegal, while others have been deemed to be legal if implemented correctly. HMRC even have a tax avoidance scheme registration plan (DOTAS). Tax payers can use DOTAS registered avoidance schemes and be sure that they will not be accused of criminality. Those who are deemed to have breached tax law through an illegal avoidance scheme are pursued through a civil process i.e. a tax tribunal- rather than a criminal court. This is where Rangers are. They are not accused of any criminal action at this point (and it is unlikely that they will), but they have been accused by HMRC of pursuing illegal tax avoidance practices. This resulted in them being sent tax assessments for underpayment, interest, and penalties. Rangers have appealed this determination by HMRC and the First Tier Tribunal (Tax) will decide whether to uphold Rangers’ appeal or not. The First Tier Tribunal will effectively rule on whether Rangers’ tax practices were legal or illegal. My link 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckinho Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 magnitude people - the sheer magnitude of the debt and liabilities and the reluctance to be held accountable for it - that is the issue 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooper Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Are fans of diddy teams really going to stop buying season tickets if the newco goes straight back inot the SPL? In sufficient numbers to make a difference? Who knows. It isn't just about ST holders though, surely. I gave up my ST a few years ago, so pay at the gate (well, the ticket office ), but I'll be buggered if I'll fork out another ha'penny to collude with the cheats charter sham should it come to pass. Will that make a difference? Well, it will to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) With regards Rangers punishment, I think it really has to be all or nothing. If they're relegated to one of the lower leagues then it'll generally be seen as strong leadership with integrity intact, if they stay in the SPL with no further punishment then there will be uproar, if they stay in the SPL with sanctions then there will still be uproar but there will also be no chance of a decent title race in the coming years. Rangers might be too weak to challenge anyway but adding sanctions will just compound the issue. Am I the only non-OF fan who actually enjoys their battles for the title? Given the choice between a 1 horse race and a 2 horse race I know what I'd pick. If Rangers are being kept in the SPL to preserve the TV deal then you have to ask are SKY really interested in paying top dollar for an SPL with a pish Rangers team who can't sign anyone starting on -10 points? All or nothing. My gut feeling at the moment is that they'll end up in the First Division with no sanctions. What I can't comprehend about all this is the stance of clubs like St. Johnstone. St. Johnstone, St. Mirren, ICT and Dunfermline have all had significant periods in the First Division in recent years where there's no TV money, no OF, no Aberdeen, no Hearts, no Hibs and they all survived. Now all they are being asked to do is survive 3 seasons (at most) without one half of the OF and St. Johnstone are coming out with 'we NEED Rangers in the SPL!'. That's clearly pish. You want Rangers in the SPL, it's more valuable with them in it, I can accept that. What I can't accept is being lied to and treated like a fucking mug. If Stewart Gilmour comes out and says he's in favour of keeping Rangers in the SPL because he's in the process of selling his shares and he wants the best price possible then fair enough, I might not agree with it but I'd respect the honesty. What I can't be arsed with is all the nonsense about how we'd die a slow lingering death without RFC, that's a fucking lie How does this thread fit into your idea about the "subtle sectarianism creeping into P&B"? Do we still have an anti-Catholic agenda? Edited May 2, 2012 by craigkillie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow-sheep Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 From two horse race to one horse race. TV revenues cut, attendances down. With both their is a product to sell. With only one of the OF it would be as I say another step down the diddy league ladder. If you were to lose both halves of the OF then at least you would have an interesting and competitive league, all be it a less affluent one. Anyway its not going to happen, no need to fret about it Premier League crowds held up well in the mid-90s when Celtic were no where to be seen and Rangers romped the league each year. Why should it be any different now? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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