flyingrodent Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 A Celtic chairman who votes for Rangers' SPL survival is going to be a hate figure for at least 50% of the support, forever. You'd better believe Lawell knows he'll be seen as nothing less than a traitor by thousands, no matter how eloquently he might push his business patter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Certain clubs are scared of going under immediately without TV money because of the debt they are in. That is why they don't want to put it to the test. They are wrong. All clubs other than Celtic would prosper without Rangers. Its onloy the likes of you who wish to continue with an uncompetitive league tainted with sectarianism and bigotry. Shame on you. Remember Sky are only interested in the OF and our Sectarian rivalry ,,if diddly clubs like yours where so morally offended by this you wouldnt take your share of the dirty money and they wouldn't keep blocking the OFs attempts for separate TV deals , but your club live of the crumbs of a sectarian rivalry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Every club in Scotland other than Celtic will benefit if Rangers die. Celtic are the ONLY club in Scotland who are reliant on Rangers' survival for their own future success. My God, Captain, a succinct, reasonable and entirely accurate post! Well done, Sir! The only team with an interest in keeping this criminal enterprise going is the one that has a long-running habit of joint sponsorship deals. They both wanted to p*ss off to england/atlantic/anyone who would have them, leaving Scottish football to go hang, TOGETHER because the OF matches are the be all and end all. Not for footballing reasons, but for the "different atmosphere" this fixture produces. Aye, different is one word for it... If (when, please God) rangers die, a massive part of celtic will die with them. And d'ye know what? Good. They've carved up our game for their own benefit for too long. There's a new dawn coming, and if celtic don't want to accept that, they can feck off too. They won't be missed. All our clubs, SPL, SFL, members of the SFA, have a once in a lifetime chance to save our game. Let these crooks back in with a slap on the wrist and a cosmetic sanction to appease UEFA and many fans (including myself and, by the looks, other P&Bers) will simply turn our backs on what was, for me at least, my first and most enduring love. KTID 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 (edited) I can see enough opposition to this proposed slap on the wrist, to make sure these proposed resolutions fail. It is just scandalous that the SPL are proposing to (apparently) do virtually nothing about Rangers whatever- but instead are proposing that they continue, under a slightly altered name, at worst. The only surprising thing about it, is that I am actually surprised by all this. If the SPL votes through the slap-on-the-wrist measures then I can't see UEFA being terribly happy, but if they don't get involved then i can't see anybody sane paying week in week out to watch what is a rigged, pish competition. Edited April 11, 2012 by Ivo den Bieman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddy Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 My post is perfectly clear. if you are incapable of understanding it then that is hardly my problem. Salmond has 1. Held meetings with HMRC on the subject of Rangers FC- the contents of said meeting are redacted now, on a very dubious basis, supposedly as they would "materially damage relations between the Scottish and UK government". aye, right. More likely "materially damage Salmond's electoral chances" as I strongly suspect they involve him pleading with the tax authorities on Rangers' behalf. 2. the evidence of Salmond's early involvement in the Rangers crisis- issuing a diaherretic spasm of press releases on the subject and basically calling for leniency and for some nice rich man to come and save the "Scottish institution" that is the big hoos 3. Him and Robison retreating at a rate of knots when they began to encoutner criticism from fans of the 40 non-OF clubs for falling over himself to prop up said financially incontinent institution - whereas he'd have quite happily have let any of those 40 clubs go to the wall, were they in a similar situation to Rangers. In UEFA's eyes, all of these interventions may constitute political interference in the running (i.e. strategy and direction) of football in this country, and they will take a very dim view of it. Not sure what exactly a) you don't understand and b) why you're jumping up and down purple faced with rage about it. There's only one person getting in a funk & that's you. How big a hole in the Angus economy would there be if this place pulled out? Nice to know they were fighting Mo's corner in this one were we? Yes. Because Glaxo and Rangers are not only exactly the same type of company, fulfilling exactly the same role in the economy, they also both went into administration. Glaxo also are subject to regulaton by the SFA and SPL. No really, that's all true. Because should they disappear there would be a couple of hundred people that could lose their jobs, that's forby those at companies servicing these major employers, whether you or I like it or not. That a enough of a similarity for you? It would be remiss of Holyrood to standby, & say nothing, whilst a major employer in the WoS lurched into a financial quagmire. On your points in the first place, that's exactly what they are, YOUR opinion. Apart from asking HMRC not to act like a bull in a china shop & "calling for leniency". You actually think they're calling the shots on this! Something that ISN'T a devolved matter. As for your inference on UEFA, I bow to you, obviously being on their executive committee makes you privy to their thoughts. Never mind where you get the idea that the Scottish Govt are telling the SFA what to do. There's an opinion polll coming up on AS & his SNP cohorts, next month. We'll see if everyone agrees with you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Just getting back to Rangers (in Administration). From 1998 - source is Broken Dreams, vanity greed and the souring of British football by Tom Bowers. http://www.amazon.co...l/dp/0743440331 Daniel Levy from ENIC bought 25% of rangers for £40million in 1997. In 1998 Levy blamed David Murray for ignoring their agreement to limit borrowings and plunge the club into debts of £100 million. He said to Murray "You're running Rangers as a huge loss making entity" and was aghast how a chairman could ruin a club by ignoring any financial controls. The same book explains some of the buying and selling of players by Rangers detailing Dennis Roach's role and pay offs despite the fact he wasn't an agent of the players involved. See the Duncan Ferguson transfer to Everton. Roach is described as a 'personal friend' of Murray and Walter Smith in the book. Rangers is a 'toxic' mess, but when did it really start? They certainly are a vile organisation, I'm still waiting on any jurnolists asking anyone who took EBTs if they are ever planning on paying their (loan) back to rangers,,considering the club is dying on its arse where are all the legends who owe it money,,,,Greig,Smith,,,,etc etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VodkaTap Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I do believe that automatic relegation to division 3 should be the penalty for going into administration. The problem we have is that we would need to have the two organisations, SPL & SFL, to work together to achieve this. As Gretna were gonna be relegated anyway, the additional punishment was imposed by the SFL to demote them to Div 3. They simply didn’t last long enough to get there. Livingston suffered the same demotion. So the precedent has already been set by the SFL, and it just needs the SPL to make relegation automatic instead of the current proposed hotchpotch. I reckon that if it had been any other club that was in administration then the SPL may well have been considering relegation as a suitable punishment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Remember Sky are only interested in the OF and our Sectarian rivalry ,,if diddly clubs like yours where so morally offended by this you wouldnt take your share of the dirty money and they wouldn't keep blocking the OFs attempts for separate TV deals , but your club live of the crumbs of a sectarian rivalry. The 1st/2nd/3rd division teams have survived without the bigot money.So can the SPL teams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 The 1st/2nd/3rd division teams have survived without the bigot money.So can the SPL teams. True but they would have a lot less money 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fife Saint Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Shug Keevins on SS there, insisting that no fans at other clubs would be remotely concerned about a phoenix Rangers re-entering the SPL saying it's only paranoid Celtic fans who want rid of them. He's so far out of touch it's almost sad. He also threw the toys out of the pram when pushed by 2 callers about the lack of tough questions to those who are involved. He cited Alex Thomson not being a football journalist as the reason why he can rock the boat, backing up Chick Young's admission that the Scottish national media is heavily biased in favour of the Old Firm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fife Saint Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 True but they would have a lot less money Uh-huh. Having all the money didn't help Rangers. It's what you do with what you have that counts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Because should they disappear there would be a couple of hundred people that could lose their jobs, that's forby those at companies servicing these major employers, whether you or I like it or not. That a enough of a similarity for you? This happens every week in the world of business. Is Alex Salmond locked in crisis talks every week about each of these companies? It would be remiss of Holyrood to standby, & say nothing, whilst a major employer in the WoS lurched into a financial quagmire. "Saying nothing" is not what I'm suggesting they should have done. interfering- as it will be defined by UEFA- is quite another matter. As I say, it would have been enough for Salmond to note concerns etc. On your points in the first place, that's exactly what they are, YOUR opinion. d'oh. It's a messageboard where people voluntarily exchange opinions. A real masterful insight from you there. Apart from asking HMRC not to act like a bull in a china shop & "calling for leniency". You actually think they're calling the shots on this! Something that ISN'T a devolved matter. Elected politicians are HMRC's ultimate paymaster. If you really think that HMRC take no account whatever of what the First Minister of Scotland says then you're insane. As for your inference on UEFA, I bow to you, obviously being on their executive committee makes you privy to their thoughts. Never mind where you get the idea that the Scottish Govt are telling the SFA what to do. why the need for all the snidey rage? There's an opinion polll coming up on AS & his SNP cohorts, next month. We'll see if everyone agrees with you. I'm sure we will. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Remember Sky are only interested in the OF and our Sectarian rivalry ,,if diddly clubs like yours where so morally offended by this you wouldnt take your share of the dirty money and they wouldn't keep blocking the OFs attempts for separate TV deals , but your club live of the crumbs of a sectarian rivalry. You are wrong our clubs live in spite of your sectarian rivalry not from it, look at C*unty, a new SPL club, going from strength to strength. Where would they be without Celtic and Rangers? Worst case scenario, they'd be living in the Highland league, no TV deal, no big sponsorship deal but still alive and thriving and pulling off the odd cup run to the quarter final of the Scottish cup. No-one needs the old firm to survive. There is talk of European co-efficients, sh!te, lose the old firm and we'd still have a couple of clubs going into Europe, we'd lose a couple of places but we'd be rid of you lot so none of us lose out. You and Rangers bring only the spectacle of one of the most hate filled encounters in world football, you are no more than a freak show to anyone but yourselves. The only reason that anyone outside Scotland watches OF derbies is because there is a higher than normal chance that there will be some sort of altercation on the pitch or in the crowd, like watching formula 1 for the crashes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHawHaw Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 You are wrong our clubs live in spite of your sectarian rivalry not from it, look at C*unty, a new SPL club, going from strength to strength. Where would they be without Celtic and Rangers? Worst case scenario, they'd be living in the Highland league, no TV deal, no big sponsorship deal but still alive and thriving and pulling off the odd cup run to the quarter final of the Scottish cup. No-one needs the old firm to survive. There is talk of European co-efficients, sh!te, lose the old firm and we'd still have a couple of clubs going into Europe, we'd lose a couple of places but we'd be rid of you lot so none of us lose out. You and Rangers bring only the spectacle of one of the most hate filled encounters in world football, you are no more than a freak show to anyone but yourselves. The only reason that anyone outside Scotland watches OF derbies is because there is a higher than normal chance that there will be some sort of altercation on the pitch or in the crowd, like watching formula 1 for the crashes. See, we won't deal with the problem, we can't, it's never about Rangers or Celtic, it's always them both. This is about Rangers running up huge debts by cheating Scottish football for decades, not the old firm, it confuses the issue 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddy Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 (edited) The 1st/2nd/3rd division teams have survived without the bigot money.So can the SPL teams. Fans of every other club know that an OF free league would flourish. With Aberdeen/United/Hibs/Hearts, even major town clubs chasing a championship, their fans will follow. Was well evident back in the 80's/90's. The last full house at Brockville was when Aberdeen avoided relegation & entered the play offs in 94. A competative product, & TV companies will be chasing a deal within a season. Anybody in Glasgow that wants to watch Scottish Senior football? There are two clubs still there to cater for that. Edited April 11, 2012 by kiddy -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Sludden Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 10 point deduction each season and the other proposed penalties are being described by the BBC as stiffer penalties. For £134 million of unpaid debt it is hee haw. Absolutely hee haw. That could finance the rest of the SPL for how long? The essence of football is sport. One team against another. Running up massive debts, buying players you can't afford, rigging the voting system to ensure the two strongest grow stronger at the expense of everyone - where's the sport? If the competition is unfair there is no point in the competition. Drugs cheats get unfair advantages and get banned. Rangers had a huge advantage in Scotland. They have a huge support by comparison to all but one other and that's not enough. They cheated by taking an unfair advantage. There is no integrity in the behaviour of those within Rangers who have accrued this debt. There is no integrity, it seems, in those charged with dealing with such fundamentally immoral behaviour. It stinks. I didn't think our football could be any more of a joke than it has been for the last twenty years. Turns out I was wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archie guevara Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 http://www.uefa.com/uefa/elevenvalues/index.html UEFA's 11 core values... some are kinda ironic. Maybe they don't really mean any of them and football is a big money making scam, not something that brings fun and entertainment to millions. *irony smiley here* 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearwithme Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 They certainly are a vile organisation, I'm still waiting on any jurnolists asking anyone who took EBTs if they are ever planning on paying their (loan) back to rangers,,considering the club is dying on its arse where are all the legends who owe it money,,,,Greig,Smith,,,,etc etc. The loans weren't made by Rangers. They were made by a trust, which was set up by Murray Group. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 See, we won't deal with the problem, we can't, it's never about Rangers or Celtic, it's always them both. This is about Rangers running up huge debts by cheating Scottish football for decades, not the old firm, it confuses the issue You are correct this is about dealing with the issue, I picked up on a troll's point and got reeled in. So back to the matter at hand I sincerely hope that you Celtic fans will be pressing your chairman to reject any attempt to let a newco Rangers straight back into the SPL. A couple of demonstrations against these proposals, maybe even a misspelled banner at your next match would be nice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHawHaw Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 You are correct this is about dealing with the issue, I picked up on a troll's point and got reeled in. So back to the matter at hand I sincerely hope that you Celtic fans will be pressing your chairman to reject any attempt to let a newco Rangers straight back into the SPL. A couple of demonstrations against these proposals, maybe even a misspelled banner at your next match would be nice. I've already expressed my opinion that Celtic (and maybe a couple of other clubs) will not vote for this, my opinion is that other SPL clubs will 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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