Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[WeeHectorPar]

It was a bit ironic reading the stuff about the 10 "provincial" (media speak not mine) clubs meeting to discuss voting reforms. Had such voting reforms been in place last year we'd probably have 10-team SPL.

So which part of the definition do they mean?

Either Glasgow has become capital of Scotland overnight, which I and all you others out there missed due to our obsession with the demise of RFC or they really do see the OF as superior beings and the rest of us as pure trash.

[theoriginalhedge]

@pollymac

I'd be interested to heart the thoughts of supporters in the third and second. Speaking personally, I'd have zero interest in buying a season ticket for say Dumbarton if they were up against spl b teams. And my curiosity about watching the likes of Darren O Dea getting some match practice for Sellics big team would be fleeting at best.

At best I think its insulting to lower league fans, at worst I'd say its destroys any competitive integrity the lower divisions had. Although I'm with you on the pyramid side of things.

Edit to add:

Gutted to see that Rangers media aren't part of the blue knight rescue consortium. They could bring their out of the box thinking.

Exactly . One point that keeps appearing is that attendances would rise just because of theprofile name of the opposition. That is a fallacy particularly with the OF as they just follow for the sake of glory. No glory in competing in a league that they can't win.

Out of principal, I wouldn't go to watch teams that have been forced upon us for the "greater good " of Scottish football. A shame because at present I watch Brechin home and away and feel that I am contributing in a small way to the survival of lower league football.

Watching the protracted crap involved with trying to save a self indulgent, self preserving club like Rangers (WHO WILL NOT THINK TWICE ABOUT GOING BACK TO THEIR OLD WAYS ) makes my blood boil . If they survive , which is looking more and more likely by the day , I would hope that the media would come to their senses and see them as others see them.........Corrupt and tainted.

As a footnote, I laughed at the announcement of the charities trust match against AC Milan . It seems that once you are in the mess that Rangers are in , like minded , corrupt clubs rally to your support. You have to admire the bare faced cheek of it all !!

[Borys]

there are too many governing bodies in such a small country.

I think we need a revolution of sorts to get the crowds back to the game.

I would be in favour of a 20 team SPD, a 20 team SD1 and a regionalised SD2 incorporating non league and junior clubs.

1 - SPD immediatelly made me think of Socially Permitted Disease ...

2 - can't divisions be counted from the top down: one, two, three? Must they be "ultra-uber", "not quite so uber but ultra nonetheless", "first", "second" ... ?

Borys

[nijmegen bairn]

SDP make it a 20 team league let the old firm play themselves

[Borys]

SDP make it a 20 team league let the old firm play themselves

Socially Desirable Perversion?

Borys

[Captain_Sensible]

Yup and no banks would allow any club to hold debt, top of my head stuff, but both Killie and Dunfermline would turn red on bankers screens for fear of both if them doing the newco route.

The vast majority of the debt that Killie and Dunfermline owe is not to banks.

[Captain_Sensible]

they gave you players

they gave you money for their u21/reserve team to use your pitch.

KIRK BROADFOOT

you absolutely need rangers.

The ONLY club that ABSOLUTELY NEEDS Rangers is Celtic.

The rest of the clubs will be BETTER off without either of the Old Firm.

With Rangers gone, Celtic are effectively finished.

With the "gang of 10" already formed, Celtic can see the writing on the wall. The major Celtic shareholders will be doing ALL they can to help Rangers stay in business.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Captain_Sensible

[madwullie]

Celtic "underdogs"

My fucking sides.

[Highlandmagyar]

The ONLY club that ABSOLUTELY NEEDS Rangers is Celtic.

The rest of the clubs will be BETTER off without either of the Old Firm.

With Rangers gone, Celtic are effectively finished.

With the "gang of 10" already formed, Celtic can see the writing on the wall. The major Celtic shareholders will be doing ALL they can to help Rangers stay in business.

Spot On mate!!

[alimci]

2 - can't divisions be counted from the top down: one, two, three? Must they be "ultra-uber", "not quite so uber but ultra nonetheless", "first", "second" ... ?

Borys

Totally agree. Nothing wrong with SD1 SD2 etc.

You also avoid the ridiculous situation where someone from abroad says to you that the team they support is in the third division, and then have to immediately clarify that this actually *means* third and not twenty seventh in case you think their team is total rubbish.

[Macshimmy]

Firstly, I know there's a multitude of threads running - many of which now only exist for our amusement, posting of 'pleasing' gifs, and general 'let's all laugh and point at Rangers' merriment....

The more I'm hearing though, the more I'm looking towards the actual end game here, and would like to gauge reaction as to where we will be a year, two years, however many years down the line. For as long as i remember I have personally felt disgusted by the way football clubs play fast and loose in a manner no 'normal' business can ever hope to get away with. I see this going the same way as so many clubs before them. They'll dodge the big one by playing the administration card. They won't be the first, they won't be the last. So, what's your prediction for the actual end to this?

To my eyes it's all set up with Whyte knowing all along that he would decide when to play the administration joker card to position himself as main creditor. I genuinely believe some sort of deal will grudgingly be accepted by HMRC. There will be pain for Rangers - but they will indeed dodge the big hammer blow. Short term pain, longer term, they'll weasel a way to rise phoenix-like from administration, as I say, like so many morally bankrupt cheating football clubs before them.

Thoughts? Hopefully not just of a 'LOL' nature! Really looking to see what you guys seriously see the end of this actually being when the dust settles.

Take your celtic and anti-celtic pish to the old firm forum. On with the Deathwatch...

Jane Lewis tweeted: "The supporters groups are the #Rangers Supporters Assembly, the Rangers Supporters Association and the Rangers Supporters Trust."

Also rumoured interest from the Rangers People Front, and the People's Front of Rangers.

Splitters!

[craigkillie]

The vast majority of the debt that Killie and Dunfermline owe is not to banks.

I was under the impression that we owed about £8.5m to the bank, while our net debt is £9.4m.

[Monkey Tennis]

Celtic "underdogs"

My fucking sides.

It was ages ago, but I actually remember seeing part of a Celtic video in which Billy McNeill was trying to make that very point. He was claiming that part of Celtic's charm was that they were very much the underdog.

He didn't even blush.

The St Pauli 'parallel' always amuses me. As if any Celtic fans we know, could be arsed following any team which had achieved as little on the pitch as St Pauli.

[thelegendthatis]

Jane Lewis tweeted: "The supporters groups are the #Rangers Supporters Assembly, the Rangers Supporters Association and the Rangers Supporters Trust."

Also rumoured interest from the Rangers People Front, and the People's Front of Rangers.

Splitters!

What about the Provisional Rangers Supporters Association,the Real Rangers Assembly not to mention the Continuity Rangers Supporters who I am sure would all want to be involved?

Regarding life without Rangers FC, there is no doubt the presence of Rangers fans at games keeps away many normal people, especially families. While it may be difficult in the short term to replace the travelling hoards of gers fans, I would expect if games were more attractive to go to the numbers would soon come back up.

We need to be careful what we are comparing here. The Rangers support will never be as big as it was in its league winning cheating years, as many supporters will drop off, not least the hospitality & sponsors. After all who wants their brand tarnished by the legacy of Murray and Whyte.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

It was ages ago, but I actually remember seeing part of a Celtic video in which Billy McNeill was trying to make that very point. He was claiming that part of Celtic's charm was that they were very much the underdog.

He didn't even blush.

The St Pauli 'parallel' always amuses me. As if any Celtic fans we know, could be arsed following any team which had achieved as little on the pitch as St Pauli.

Exactly.

Trying to project the "poor, downtrodden" Celtic image, when you've consistently outspent almost everyone else in Scotland for god knows how long, is quite amusing.

re St Pauli, most of the Celtic fans i know don't give a f**k about them, apart from one, who once posted on Bebo (years ago obviously) "Ah rite, I thought they played in France mate".

[Newbornbairn]

BBC stating quite categorically that it's the SPL Board who vote on letting a Newco into the SPL, not the full league.

If Rangers went out of existence, what would be the next move?The new company would have to apply to join the Scottish Premier League.

As per per article 11 of the SPL's rules, the six-man board would then vote on whether to approve the share transfer from the club formerly known as Rangers to the 'Newco'.

If the vote is 'yes' then the new club would be brought into the top 12.

Who are the six-man board?

The SPL board comprises chairman Ralph Topping, chief executive Neil Doncaster, Eric Riley of Celtic, Stephen Thompson of Dundee United, Derek Weir of Motherwell and Steven Brown of St Johnstone.

All six are entitled to vote on the election of a new club to the SPL.

The vote requires a majority decision, not a unanimous one and no other clubs get to vote on the decision, only the board.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17310468

The impression I've got from these pages is that the Board can only ratify the full vote of the 11. Who's right?

[Captain_Sensible]

I was under the impression that we owed about £8.5m to the bank, while our net debt is £9.4m.

You are right. I was under the impression that most of Killie's debt was owed to a major shareholder?

[TheTodd]

It's not always youth players though. I think the deal, generally, is that players are 'signed' for the duration and can only be transferred during the transfer windows.

From Celtic, the likes of Darren O'Dea, Morten Rasmussen, Efrain Juarez, Paddy McCourt etc, i.e. a decent number of internationals, would have been in the B team.

At the risk of sound a bit condescending (or rather: a pompous arse) - a team with those types of players with a glass ceiling of say two or three levels below the first team would enhance the league they play in. It'd certainly be a 'curiosity' for many fans.

I'd go for a ceiling of 3 below the first team and then open the league pyramid right up, so that even teams playing on a public park tomorrow morning had a very direct route to the SPL. The whole mindset of protectionism is what prevents this though: fans don't want their teams marginalised by essentially a bigger and better (cast-offs?) team, and equally don't want competition from those currently standing on the outside looking in - comfortable stagnation is much the preferred existence.

See, I think it is condescending. I try and put myself in the shoes of the fans in the third division and wonder how they'd feel that their division is being treated like a glorified reserve league. Celtic B or Rangers B would certainly win that league at a canter every year, thus making their championship pointless into the mix. Scottish football is in enough of a state with the Old Firm dominating one division every year without bringing another division into it.

[Reynard]

The vast majority of the debt that Killie and Dunfermline owe is not to banks.

The vast bulk of Killies debt IS to the bank.

[Reynard]

You are right. I was under the impression that most of Killie's debt was owed to a major shareholder?

Some of it was owed to Moffat, but its gradually dawning on him that there is next to f**k all chance of him seeing any of it ever again. He's hanging on in there on the off chance.

A wee interest rate rise could be interesting for any club with significant bank debt, and banks are starting to raise their rates as they realise that they need to look after savers better.