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Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!


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Scotsman has been adamant for weeks that it's an SPL Board decision, although by the sounds of it, that's technically-speaking correct... the clubs could decide on sanctions such as to make it academic anyway.

However, I love how Yorkston says NewCo Rangers shouldn't be allowed into SPL... "it should go into SFL".

Why should that be any different? What about Spartans, Cove etc.? And if them surviving is unfair on SPL clubs, how's it not unfair on SFL3 too?

Absolutely, with any luck we'll also hear from some Div 3 chairmen as well as prospective members. Rangers seem to be taking it as a given that they would be automatically welcomed into the league structure. They need to take a serious tumble to themselves.

Yes, if the board decision is merely a technicality and it's actually a member decision, I think we could be in for some fireworks soon. I just wish Liquidation Day was sooner.

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Noticed McCoist giving it "we will be back to out old selves soon", even Walter Smith saying "we'll never die, that's for sure", and every Rangers fan I speak to tells me "there's no way we'll not be in the SPL next season".

They're so alien to dealing with adversity that their way of coping is just to make meaningless bold statements about how they'll be fine, obviously hoping that if they keep saying it, everything will be OK. Even when they're on life support, their arrogance never leaves them.

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Here we go laugh.gif

If Rangers go down to the third division the Spl will die. Cant understand some of the posts in this thread from Rangers supporters or supposed football supporters.
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Noticed McCoist giving it "we will be back to out old selves soon", even Walter Smith saying "we'll never die, that's for sure", and every Rangers fan I speak to tells me "there's no way we'll not be in the SPL next season".

They're so alien to dealing with adversity that their way of coping is just to make meaningless bold statements about how they'll be fine, obviously hoping that if they keep saying it, everything will be OK. Even when they're on life support, their arrogance never leaves them.

But they are the people and the big hoose must stay open.

Here we go laugh.gif

Yass! Always just a matter of time!

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My questions are, is there any authority that can step in and intervene if it is perceived that the current administrators aren't doing as they should, and where does the tipping point lie?

I think the government should step in immediately! After all, the inaction of the administrators so far has cost the country as a whole a huge amount in lost productivity due to the time spent reading and refreshing this thread. Kill them off now so we can all get back to doing something more useful! :D

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Grant Russell who writes for STV online is generally on the money with "the rules". This has obviously been the subject of some speculation though and it had previously been reported that it was a matter for the SPL board. I think it should be open to all members to decide, although my own views on what should happen if there is a newco are pretty clear :D

I'd love to know what Roy McGregor thinks. Or the Falkirk chairman.

Incidentally, I hate reading this thread, because it keeps convincing me that we might actually be about to see Rangers in the third division, but the cynical, SPL-wary part of me knows that they'll be just dandy in six months.

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I think it's unlikely Newco Rangers won't, somehow, be in the SPL next season but if they do have to apply to the SFL it's deluded to think Spartans or anyone else will be voted in ahead of them. The SFL clubs will look at the away support they'll host twice, the once in a lifetime TV deal they can sign and the guarantee no one will buy them over to be rebranded Rangers and tick the box within seconds.

Edit to add some general points.

If Rangers are liquidated, the SPL rules seem to read that relegation is off. There's no way Ross County can be denied promotion to accommodate Rangers so even if there is a will to have them in the top flight it will be far from simple to arrange.

Beyond that, Newco Rangers will have severe funding issues...their potential for credit is virtually nil and their potential for improvement is tiny - McCann took over Celtic before they'd capitalised on increased TV money, Champions League cash, a proper stadium with more corpie opportunities...Rangers have basically maxed their income already and if they are playing in the SPL next season (or for the next seasons) with no chance of winning it due to a points penalty, no chance of Europe for three years, they are simply not going to get 40,000 folk watching them play 19 friendlies a season...with that in mind, a gradual and low cost rise through the divisions may actually benefit them.

As I said originally, I think some form of compromise will be reached to keep Rangers in the SPL - but there is no way it is a done deal or it will be simple.

Edited by Handsome_Devil
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If Rangers are liquidated how can they end-up in Third Division anyway?

They don't have membership of SFL. If they're liquidated and the SPL share isn't transferred to a new company it would be outrageous if SFA did allow a transfer of their membership.

Without SFA membership a new club cannot apply to SFL. And you cannot achieve SFA membership in a matter of weeks.

Edited by HibeeJibee
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Scotsman has been adamant for weeks that it's an SPL Board decision, although by the sounds of it, that's technically-speaking correct... but the clubs could apply such sanctions as to make it academic anyway.

Love how Yorkston says NewCo Rangers shouldn't be allowed into SPL... "it should go into SFL".

Why should that any different? What about Spartans, Cove etc.? If them surviving is unfair on SPL clubs, how's it not unfair on SFL3 too?

(Also Hipster - the thought of an 18/20-team SPL is absolutely horrific. It'd be a competitive and financial wilderness, and a relegation nightmare).

If the SPL share is transferred to the newco as an asset, then the SPL presumably has the ability to "relegate" them. Assuming that this is done with the cooperation of the SFL, it then becomes their problem. As a newco club they could presumably demote them to the bottom tier.

Yorkston is merely speculating on a possible chain of events. As to why it should be any different - no argument there. I guess the assumption would be that the newco is seen to be Rangers continuing albeit in a different guise, therefore it is fair punishment. I totally agree that it would be unfair on other clubs (eg Spartans, Cove etc) and frankly have no real argument against that point of view.

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My questions are, is there any authority that can step in and intervene if it is perceived that the current administrators aren't doing as they should, and where does the tipping point lie?

Yes, the Court of Session can intervene if the administration is being, well, maladministered. I don't know what the tipping point is though. Maybe a complaint to the Court from HMRC in this case?

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The site that just keeps giving, David Murray has went from almost God like status to...

Okay Casey if we were all warned what could our fans do about it. The fans never sold the club to Whyte it was that scumbag Murray that sold it to him.
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If the SPL share is transferred to the newco as an asset, then the SPL presumably has the ability to "relegate" them. Assuming that this is done with the cooperation of the SFL, it then becomes their problem. As a newco club they could presumably demote them to the bottom tier.

Yorkston is merely speculating on a possible chain of events.

Sounds pretty contrived, but I suppose it might be feasible.

Now the conspiracy theorist bit... Could we be looking at a situation whereby, in effect, NewCo Rangers are relegated to SFL1 'instead of Dunfermline'? Allowing them to bounce-back in 1 year? Means a year of limbo for promotion-hunting SFL1 clubs, but plenty £££ in return.

Sky-ESPN might also be persuaded to stay onboard, perhaps with a 1-year reduced fee, if Rangers were likely to return in 2013.

Hopefully that'll prove totally unfounded...

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Incidentally, I hate reading this thread, because it keeps convincing me that we might actually be about to see Rangers in the third division, but the cynical, SPL-wary part of me knows that they'll be just dandy in six months.

I totally agree.

Although I prefer the scenario where they apply to the SFL and are rejected.

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Sounds pretty contrived, but I suppose it might be feasible.

Now the conspiracy theorist bit... Could we be looking at a situation whereby, in effect, NewCo Rangers are relegated to SFL1 'instead of Dunfermline'? Allowing them to bounce-back in 1 year? Means a year of limbo for promotion-hunting SFL1 clubs, but plenty £££ in return.

Sky-ESPN might also be persuaded to stay onboard, perhaps with a 1-year reduced fee, if Rangers were likely to return in 2013.

Hopefully that'll prove totally unfounded...

Are we basically saying that Rangers can only basically end up either out of existence altogether or just ticketyboo and carrying on regardless, having released a few players now and signed a whole bunch more better ones in the summer?

Seems to me there's no real basis for them to be relegated to the third division, let alone the first.

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Sounds pretty contrived, but I suppose it might be feasible.

Now the conspiracy theorist bit... Could we be looking at a situation whereby, in effect, NewCo Rangers are relegated to SFL1 'instead of Dunfermline'? Allowing them to bounce-back in 1 year? Means a year of limbo for promotion-hunting SFL1 clubs, but plenty £££ in return.

Sky-ESPN might also be persuaded to stay onboard, perhaps with a 1-year reduced fee, if Rangers were likely to return in 2013.

Hopefully that'll prove totally unfounded...

I think that is a possibility.

Any scenario is contrived, really. A newco going straight into the SPL with some sort of made up system of points penalties and fines over a number of years is about as contrived as it could be! I think as this is an unprecedented scenario (especially when you factor in any potential action regarding the player registration situation) there is not going to be a reasonably projected scenario within existing rules - especially when you consider that we have three separate (albeit interlinked) governing bodies!

Therefore I believe we have to think in more abstract terms. As such, a newco Rangers "starting at the bottom" is being suggested as a reasonably fair outcome. Now there are certainly strong arguments as to how even that isn't fair. But, IMO the notion of newco Rangers going straight into the SPL merely to avoid any fallout from bottom tier SFL clubs and those outwith, ie giving them a deliberately lenient punishment not just for commercial reasons but also political, is even more ridiculous.

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Seems to me there's no real basis for them to be relegated to the third division, let alone the first.

No moral/sporting basis, no, but legally/technically yes. They can transfer the 'football entity' (membership etc) from The Rangers FC plc to another, undebted, company.

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Seems to me there's no real basis for them to be relegated to the third division, let alone the first.

Not if they survive admin and pay their debts of with a CVA.

However, if they liquidise then the Newco should have to apply for SFA/SFL/SPL membership like anyone else. If they are granted membership straight into the SPL could it be the dawn of franchises requesting a place in the SPL as opposed to earning it through promotion/relegation.

I wouldn't even support their SFL membership request over well run non league clubs.

Potentially dangerous times!

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Not if they survive admin and pay their debts of with a CVA.

However, if they liquidise then the Newco should have to apply for SFA/SFL/SPL membership like anyone else. If they are granted membership straight into the SPL could it be the dawn of franchises requesting a place in the SPL as opposed to earning it through promotion/relegation.

I wouldn't even support their SFL membership request over well run non league clubs.

Potentially dangerous times!

Is Leeds not the best example of how this worked previously? I understood that a CVA is highly unlikely due to Her Maj not being willing to accept one at 12p in the pound or whatever. In which case Liquidation is if not a certainty, at least likely. In Leeds case, were they not liquidated, transferred their membership and carried on like nothing happened at all?

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Would the granting of an SPL place to a phoenix club not set a huge precedent for other SPL clubs up to their eyeballs in debt? Surely for example Dunfermline * could just say 'screw this, lets transfer our assets to a new company, ditch all our debt and start again in the SPL as DAFC 2012, it worked for Rangers'.

*just a hypothetical before this goes off on a tangent about who the DAFC debt is due to etc etc

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