Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Ken Fitlike]

re. the probable 'phoenix' FC Rangers 2012 ....

can I suggest theat they must accept being officially named the Govan Zombies as a condition of acceptance

[itzdrk]

Hope you say?

1) Liquidation of the current club

2) Buying of Ibrox by a non-committed third party, preferably HMRC, who sell it off for a supermarket, shite council housing, who cares. Worst case alternative: keep it and charge the phoenix club a huge amount of rent for being dodgy tenants.

3) Splitting of the Rangers phoenix clubs between their relative Judean People's Fronts so that none gains overwhelming support from the knuckledragging base.

4) In the SPL, re-negotiation of terms to end the current voting system, with prize money and TV money distributed on an equitable basis. Hell, a proportion of the away fans' money going to the away team wouldn't go amiss either.

5) Any FC Rangers 2012 to have to fight it out with other non-league applications at the bottom of the SFL, pretty much homeless, and a shadow of the club they once were.

I obviously don't expect to get all of this, but I certainly think there are tangible gains to be made from the situation, particularly 1), 4) and the last part of 5). With a small bit of luck this process should utterly cripple Rangers.

i would only change #2

selling it to some "kafflik" organisation would be utterly hillarious

[Jussy]

A bit of chat from SSN today. Rangers in VAT payment shocker... Rangers may not be saved... Papac to be out tomorrow?

My Link

[Colin M]

A bit of chat from SSN today. Rangers in VAT payment shocker... Rangers may not be saved... Papac to be out tomorrow?

My Link

So would that mean that the VAT on the Ticketus transaction was paid, so the 9-16.5 million owed to HMRC currently doesn't include that money?

[Jussy]

So would that mean that the VAT on the Ticketus transaction was paid, so the 9-16.5 million owed to HMRC currently doesn't include that money?

I think so. So either the debt to HMRC is £4 million less than previously anticipated or, hopefully, it means there's something else we don't know about yet and the debt is as before.

Either way, I'm gutted that tomorrow is the first day this week I have to actually go out. I may well miss a massive meltdown if they aren't so considerate as to hold the big event in the morning or evening.

[EdTheDuck]

What is it we (all non-OF fans) are actually hoping to get out of all this? No matter what happens, at the end of this there will be some sort of Rangers in existence who will at the very least be accepted back into the SFL and within 3 years will be back in the SPL with low/no debts. In the meantime we'll have a 1 horse race for the title and less money to go around the other teams. The only possible positive to come from this could be the potential for the remaining SPL diddies to bully Celtic into accepting some sort of league reconstruction and/or prize money redistribution. Even if this was possible, the diddies don't all agree on league reconstruction and gaining a few hundred grand extra in prize money isn't going to result in the likes of Aberdeen launching a title bid. Am I missing something?

A quick question for the financial experts on the forum.... Does Rangers current plight indicate that Celtic are actually a considerably bigger club than their rivals? If Rangers are potentially up to £80m in debt, and are apparently losing £10m a year, doesn't this mean they simply don't generate enough income to sustain a squad on a par with Celtic's? We tend to think of the OF being in their own financial tier, with Hearts/Hibs/Aberdeen below them and then the rest of us. But perhaps Celtic and Rangers are now in two separate tiers? I hope not, I'd rather a 2 horse race than a 1 horse race.

I'd like justice to be done and seen to be done as yousuggest.

I hope we could see almost every aspect of our game torn upand started over, from the way our kids learn their football through to thestructure of the professional league championship.

I know I won't though, nothing of any substance will change andinside 5 years you won't be able to see the join between rangers 1872 andrangers 2012.

Never mind the damage this will do to rangers, judging bythe responses on here, other message boards I haunt and people I talk to in theoutside world this could do our game serious, serious harm when the carve uphappens.

[Bigmouth Strikes Again]

Dundee will further cut their budget next season, due to financial pressures in the First Division.

How the f**k would you know?

[orco]

I'd like to see Rangers dealt with as harshly as Livi were 2 and a half years ago - punted to the lowest league for debts of just over £1million.

However like Gretna before us we were not part of the football institution like Rangers and Dundee are.

Dundee escaped any meaningful punishment for much more debt than Livi had in either of our respective administrations and I expect Rangers to escape too.

[Jussy]

Dunfermline MP doing his bit and sticking up for clubs shafted by rangers in Parliament, more bad press for the SNP in this debacle.

My Link

I assume Docherty actually said Dundee United though.

Edit: He did and the whole debate can be read here

Edited February 29, 2012 by Jussy

[theoriginalhedge]

Is that based on financial security, or on a natural cycle of success? Not to mention the mismanagement of Hearts and Hibs which have played a major role in weakening competition.

Dundee will further cut their budget next season, due to financial pressures in the First Division. Livingston are back to, or more accurately, didn't stop spending money they don't have, in a desperate attempt to compete at a reduced level.

A bit off topic .......On the news tonight that an investor has given Dundee a six figure sum and there are more investors in the pipeline . Enough to see a promotion push ?

Back on topic .......Still waiting patiently for the black smoke to billow out of the Govan gas pipe !!!!

[vikingTON]

Dunfermline MP doing his bit and sticking up for clubs shafted by rangers in Parliament, more bad press for the SNP in this debacle.

Not really, it's just your common or garden ^^^scrambling for relevancy type of question by a 'local issues' MP.

[HibeeJibee]

Dunfermline MP doing his bit and sticking up for clubs shafted by rangers in Parliament, more bad press for the SNP in this debacle.

My Link

I assume Docherty actually said Dundee United though.

Edit: He did and the whole debate can be read here

It was such an important discussion that only 6 MPs turned-up... and only 2 from Scotland, the others being 2 from the south coast and 2 from Ulster. Bloke from Dunfermline seems to have missed a trick, in that if it's "theft" then Dunfermline should report Rangers to the police; otherwise, they should petition SPL for their dues.

Two interesting quotes were Damian Collins (Conservative, Folkestone & Hythe):

Glasgow Rangers is too big to fail, and they will find a way of restructuring their debts and coming back,

and Pete Wishart (SNP, Perth & North Perthshire)

There has to be a solution, because it is almost inconceivable to imagine Scottish football without Glasgow Rangers. They have 130 years of history and tradition.

[TheLip69]

Their profit/loss per season is largely dependent on their on-pitch success.

Isn't everyone's?

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

Nae news today then??? I take it the're no deed yet?

Anything to report???

[vikingTON]

Isn't everyone's?

I wouldn't say St Mirren or St Jonstone depend on a Scottish Cup Final, top six finish and a series of European ties to avoid a loss, no.

Edited February 29, 2012 by vikingTON

[Jussy]

It was such an important discussion that only 6 MPs turned-up... and only 2 from Scotland, the others being 2 from the south coast and 2 from Ulster. Bloke from Dunfermline seems to have missed a trick, in that if it's "theft" then Dunfermline should report Rangers to the police; otherwise, they should petition SPL for their dues.

Two interesting quotes were Damian Collins (Conservative, Folkestone & Hythe):

and Pete Wishart (SNP, Perth & North Perthshire)

It is a pity it wasn't taken more seriously and I agree those were interesting quotes. The theft quote was a highlight for me:

When Rangers entered administration, the club and its administrators, Duff and Phelps, refused point blank to hand either amount of money to Dundee United or Dunfermline, arguing that it should go into the pot of credited money. Let me be clear and send a message to Rangers' administrators: that money does not belong—and has never belonged—to Rangers. Holding on to it is not only morally wrong, it is nothing short of theft.

I understand his point that the money never belonged to rangers, but is it actually, legally theft? Is it any more so than what they've done to other creditors? I don't know the answer to that one but it would be interesting if it is, indeed, something they could go to the police about.

Do we have any way of knowing who has petioned the SPL for money due? I've said before I would have to assume that Dunfermline have, particularly given their grievances being widely aired in the press. Again, I suspect they may have done as Docherty seems anxious not to mention those who didn't want to be named. Presumably he'd have spoken to someone at Dunfermline before raising their problems in Parliament as well, and that leads me to think they are actively pursuing the money. I would like to think so anyway, but it's all guesswork for now.

[Jussy]

Nae news today then??? I take it the're no deed yet?

Anything to report???

Administrators may have found £4 million of the missing Ticketus money, believed to have been paid as VAT though they're not certain yet.

Administrators apparently unsure if rangers can be saved.

That's about all I got, it was a quiet day.

[Monkey Tennis]

What is it we (all non-OF fans) are actually hoping to get out of all this?

It's a valid question, but it's very hard to answer.

I genuinely hope that the club dies and is not replaced by anything else like it.

I accept however that this is extremely unlikely.

My hopes therefore have to rest on them being significantly weakened for a long time. This, for me, is more realistic.

If they exist, I'm sure they'll soon be in the top flight, either (as I'd expect) without any break or following a short one. I do think it's conceivable that they'd be ordinary though. Without European money, they wouldn't be in the same position to dominate. Without being able to dominate, we know what would happen to their gates. Of course they'll have potential to one day re-awaken, but a few years of early 80s style doldrums (minus the cup wins) would be great.

Celtic will be in a strong position obviously, but people are overlooking the fact that having just one obnoxious giant is better than enduring two. Other sides will have much improved chances of Cup runs and higher league finishes.

My main motivation in stalking these Premier League boards however is simply that I'm having so much fun watching them and their fans suffer. Queens have only very rarely provided me with this kind of pleasure.

My response is juvenile perhaps, but to be honest I'm not thinking all that much about the long game. This is the club who (alongside their sister outfit) kept threatening to leave the Scottish set-up if anyone would have them. This is the club that appeals to the worst instincts of the worst elements of our population and this is the club that have arrogantly revelled in triumphalist sneering since the mid 80s.

I started a thread on the first division forum a couple of weeks back about how us diddies really didn't need to be careful what we wished for on this, in the way that fans of some SPL clubs might have to.

I don't really have a clue where this will end.

I suspect it may indeed not amount to much and that within a year or two we'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

Right now though, I'm just happy to pull up a chair and watch the b*****ds squirm.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Monkey Tennis

[jagfox]

Don't cancel that popcorn order yet. Evening times reports that today is the last day that wages are covered by monies paid pre-administration. Tomorrow the longknives could be out.....

*insert YouTube cinema butterkist advert here*

[Benjamin_Nevis]

I'd like to see Rangers dealt with as harshly as Livi were 2 and a half years ago - punted to the lowest league for debts of just over £1million.

However like Gretna before us we were not part of the football institution like Rangers and Dundee are.

Dundee escaped any meaningful punishment for much more debt than Livi had in either of our respective administrations and I expect Rangers to escape too.

Disappointingly poor piece of trolling here TBH © Jimmy85