Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[flood]

And we (St. Mirren) could deal with it.

It's the teams like Aberdeen, Dundee Utd and Kilmarnock who couldn't. Apart from Utd's brief stint in the 1st Division in the mid 90s these teams have spent what seems like an eternity in Scotland's top flight, and they've done so by spending money they didn't have.

A team the size of Kilmarnock shouldn't be playing 20+ years straight in the top flight, it's not healthy for the whole of Scottish football, and the fact that it's happened tells you all you need to know about how our game is run.

That is quite possibly the biggest pile of shit, I have seen posted on this joyous thread.

St Mirren have came much, much closer to administration than any of the clubs you mentioned. You only got lucky because Tesco bought your ground. Do not preach about the "Miracle of St Mirren". All the clubs you mentioned have built up debt, but always keep on top of it, to the bank and other creditors satisfaction.

Killie built up debt mainly on the Park Hotel. This now actually keeps us going as it brings money into the club every single day. Cash is King and all that.

Promotion/ relegation depends on success on the park, not the size of town or how long we have been in the top flight. If you check the all time SPL table Killie are 4th, Aberdeen with a city about 5 times the size of Killie are 5th. St Mirren are 13th. Bitter?

[printer]

I've been a season ticket holder at Tannadice for a number of years and have had by existing seat for over a decade. In that time I have seen other season ticket holders come and go. A few I know still attend matches more selectively, others have just decided they have better things to do with their time (and money).

It would be nice to think that SPL chairmen would use this opportunity to make changes that would have long term benefits for the game i.e. make the league more competitive and, therefore, more attractive. But I don't think they will.

Instead they'll bend over for Rangers II and, in the process, some more non OF season ticket holders will call it a day. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that I will be one of them.

Don't go Granny D.

[WaffenThinMint]

On Hearts - they are struggling badly financially and I can't see Romanov (even given his erratic history) cutting of his nose to spite his face to make a point, regardless of how satisfying it would be.

As if! The man's been banging on about the Scottish set up being a fiddle for years to suit the Old Firm. If he's given the chance to hammer the stake into the Ibrox vampire, he'll do so after first putting on his best dancing shoes so he can tango afterwards.

Secondly, and this may come as a bloody big shock to the "hands across the M8" wankers (thankfully a dying breed), Hearts would be mad to pass up the opportunity to destroy Rangers for good especially if it meant ensuring that Hibernian - their biggest money spinning match of the season - is preserved by any danger of their relegation this year being null and void due to a need for restructuring.

Thirdly, Romanov is a hard-headed businessman. Given the chance to remove a major competitor for good, he'll not pass it up. The whole "history" and "Scottish institution" means SFA to a Russian whose seen his country and the nations he trades in go through massive social and economic upheavals in the last 50 years the likes of which the Scots mentality cannot begin to appreciate. He, like many in Eastern Europe, doesn't swallow that "there must always be" sentimentalist tosh.

So what if money is lost in the short term (and anyone that honestly believes all those Rangers fans will be lost to Scottish football forever is living in dreamland)? In the medium to long term an easier passage to European competition awaits and it will be easier to secure investment being part of a system that no longer reeks of being a two team stitch up (with one of those two having highly dubious links to the upper echelons of the corridors of power not only at Hampden).

Rangers death will be bloody marvellous business for Mad Vlad as it will for many other Scottish clubs, especially those that never saw a whiff of all that Sky TV money the pub bores tell you is so "vital" to the game up here. For the first time in over 100 years, many clubs will be seeing a real opportunity to become real success stories, not merely some "wee team" bolthole when their "big team"'s doing relatively poorly.

My only fear is that upon the happy event, the SFA, SPL & SFL will demand "emergency restructuring", and rush through a 20 league Premier League and 22 Division Division One for two seasons, in order to let clubs find their "natural level". Rangers 2012 are elected to the vacancy in the new 22 team Division 1, they win it at a canter, and are comfortably in the top 12 at the end of season 2013/14 when it reverts back to a 12-10-10-10 set up.

Edited February 24, 2012 by WaffenThinMint

[stonedsailor]

As if! The man's been banging on about the Scottish set up being a fiddle for years to suit the Old Firm. If he's given the chance to hammer the stake into the Ibrox vampire, he'll do so after first putting on his best dancing shoes so he can tango afterwards.

Secondly, and this may come as a bloody big shock to the "hands across the M8" wankers (thankfully a dying breed), Hearts would be mad to pass up the opportunity to destroy Rangers for good especially if it meant ensuring that Hibernian - their biggest money spinning match of the season - is preserved by any danger of their relegation this year being null and void due to a need for restructuring.

Thirdly, Romanov is a hard-headed businessman. Given the chance to remove a major competitor for good, he'll not pass it up. The whole "history" and "Scottish institution" means SFA to a Russian whose seen his country and the nations he trades in go through massive social and economic upheavals in the last 50 years the likes of which the Scots mentality cannot begin to appreciate. He, like many in Eastern Europe, doesn't swallow that "there must always be" sentimentalist tosh.

So what if money is lost in the short term (and anyone that honestly believes all those Rangers fans will be lost to Scottish football forever is living in dreamland)? In the medium to long term an easier passage to European competition awaits and it will be easier to secure investment being part of a system that no longer reeks of being a two team stitch up (with one of those two having highly dubious links to the upper echelons of the corridors of power not only at Hampden).

Rangers death will be bloody marvellous business for Mad Vlad as it will for many other Scottish clubs, especially those that never saw a whiff of all that Sky TV money the pub bores tell you is so "vital" to the game up here. For the first time in over 100 years, many clubs will be seeing a real opportunity to become real success stories, not merely some "wee team" bolthole when their "big team"'s doing relatively poorly.

My only fear is that upon the happy event, the SFA, SPL & SFL will demand "emergency restructuring", and rush through a 20 league Premier League and 22 Division Division One for two seasons, in order to let clubs find their "natural level". Rangers 2012 are elected to the vacancy in the new 22 team Division 1, they win it at a canter, and are comfortably in the top 12 at the end of season 2013/14 when it reverts back to a 12-10-10-10 set up.

[MarkYardley'sNo.1Fan]

That is quite possibly the biggest pile of shit, I have seen posted on this joyous thread.

St Mirren have came much, much closer to administration than any of the clubs you mentioned. You only got lucky because Tesco bought your ground. Do not preach about the "Miracle of St Mirren". All the clubs you mentioned have built up debt, but always keep on top of it, to the bank and other creditors satisfaction.

Killie built up debt mainly on the Park Hotel. This now actually keeps us going as it brings money into the club every single day. Cash is King and all that.

Promotion/ relegation depends on success on the park, not the size of town or how long we have been in the top flight. If you check the all time SPL table Killie are 4th, Aberdeen with a city about 5 times the size of Killie are 5th. St Mirren are 13th. Bitter?

Lucky or not it's a fact. You could argue we were unlucky that our bank was so shitty to deal with considering our debt was only £2m but that doesn't matter, the fact is we could have gone bust but we never.

You're right the clubs have kept on top of it, but the only way that's possible is with the participation of both OF teams in the SPL with 3/4 games against each per season, and a measely 1 relegation place to make those clubs being relegated highly unlikely. Not to mention the ridiculous stadia criteria which helped both Aberdeen and Dundee United avoid the drop.

I'm not preaching at all. My point is that certain clubs need Rangers 2012 because they overspent in the past, and the integrity of the SPL and the overall good of Scottish football will suffer for it.

[Hedgecutter]

We were in the top flight for 49 years at the start of the century, and 19 years from the 50s-70s. In fact, we'd only spent 27 years out of the top flight before the SPL started.

Killie are undoubtedly one of the top 10 clubs in Scotland, so it's hardly surprising we've spent so long in the top league.

I've only been really into football since '95 so they've always been a premier league side to me. I don't how, but that's the case. Even Dundee Utd, Aberdeen and Hibs have finished bottom since then.

I can remember back to when they weren't always there though Clicky

[scottxs]

Bitter Much?

what a complete p***k

[Desert Nomad]

Lucky or not it's a fact. You could argue we were unlucky that our bank was so shitty to deal with considering our debt was only £2m but that doesn't matter, the fact is we could have gone bust but we never.

You're right the clubs have kept on top of it, but the only way that's possible is with the participation of both OF teams in the SPL with 3/4 games against each per season, and a measely 1 relegation place to make those clubs being relegated highly unlikely. Not to mention the ridiculous stadia criteria which helped both Aberdeen and Dundee United avoid the drop.

I'm not preaching at all. My point is that certain clubs need Rangers 2012 because they overspent in the past, and the integrity of the SPL and the overall good of Scottish football will suffer for it.

Do enlighten me.

[MarkYardley'sNo.1Fan]

Do enlighten me.

We had to spend 400k on a new stand to meet the ridiculous 10k seating rule in 00/01. We already had over 9000 seats ffs

Having that 400k available to spend on playing staff would have undoubtedly seen your lot relegated that season

[Jussy]

We had to spend 400k on a new stand to meet the ridiculous 10k seating rule in 00/01. We already had over 9000 seats ffs

Having that 400k available to spend on playing staff would have undoubtedly seen your lot relegated that season

That's an extremely spurious argument.

The petty squabbling about which teams deserve to be in the SPL is ruining this once brilliant thread.

Killie thoroughly deserve to be in the SPL, St Mirren got lucky but I don't begrudge them their financial situation in the slightest, we all hate rangers. Now, we need some exciting news from the administrators to brighten this day up.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Jussy

[Desert Nomad]

We had to spend 400k on a new stand to meet the ridiculous 10k seating rule in 00/01. We already had over 9000 seats ffs

Having that 400k available to spend on playing staff would have undoubtedly seen your lot relegated that season

That argument has been done to death 1000 times, live with getting relegated, we did in 1995. In fact our First Divison season was the best I can remember, why? No fucking Old Firm!

[EdTheDuck]

Not to mention the ridiculous stadia criteria which helped both Aberdeen and Dundee United avoid the drop.

United have never avoided the drop because of the stadium criteria

Aberdeen avoided a 3-way play-off with Dunfermline & Falkirk, where 2 would have been in the SPL

In fact, there's only one team that has actually avoided the drop because of stadium criteria and it wasn;t either of these two

[vikingTON]

As if! The man's been banging on about the Scottish set up being a fiddle for years to suit the Old Firm. If he's given the chance to hammer the stake into the Ibrox vampire, he'll do so after first putting on his best dancing shoes so he can tango afterwards.

Secondly, and this may come as a bloody big shock to the "hands across the M8" wankers (thankfully a dying breed), Hearts would be mad to pass up the opportunity to destroy Rangers for good especially if it meant ensuring that Hibernian - their biggest money spinning match of the season - is preserved by any danger of their relegation this year being null and void due to a need for restructuring.

Thirdly, Romanov is a hard-headed businessman. Given the chance to remove a major competitor for good, he'll not pass it up. The whole "history" and "Scottish institution" means SFA to a Russian whose seen his country and the nations he trades in go through massive social and economic upheavals in the last 50 years the likes of which the Scots mentality cannot begin to appreciate. He, like many in Eastern Europe, doesn't swallow that "there must always be" sentimentalist tosh.

So what if money is lost in the short term (and anyone that honestly believes all those Rangers fans will be lost to Scottish football forever is living in dreamland)? In the medium to long term an easier passage to European competition awaits and it will be easier to secure investment being part of a system that no longer reeks of being a two team stitch up (with one of those two having highly dubious links to the upper echelons of the corridors of power not only at Hampden).

Rangers death will be bloody marvellous business for Mad Vlad as it will for many other Scottish clubs, especially those that never saw a whiff of all that Sky TV money the pub bores tell you is so "vital" to the game up here. For the first time in over 100 years, many clubs will be seeing a real opportunity to become real success stories, not merely some "wee team" bolthole when their "big team"'s doing relatively poorly.

My only fear is that upon the happy event, the SFA, SPL & SFL will demand "emergency restructuring", and rush through a 20 league Premier League and 22 Division Division One for two seasons, in order to let clubs find their "natural level". Rangers 2012 are elected to the vacancy in the new 22 team Division 1, they win it at a canter, and are comfortably in the top 12 at the end of season 2013/14 when it reverts back to a 12-10-10-10 set up.

I agree with every single word of this. Remarkable.

On Celtic, I just find the idea of a PLC voluntarily making their trading environment markedly worse a bit far fetched. Better for them to have a badly wounded Rangers in the league, still piss all over them, qualify for the CL and retain season ticket levels, sponsorship and TV revenue, all of which would suffer without the other cheek. I would have thought that their fans would enjoy the boasting rights of pumping rangers 4 times a season for a few years rather than never playing them, but who knows....

Celtic aren't a 'real' plc though: there have both shareholders and fans to consider. And they will consider this: even if Rangers formed a viable phoenix club, get into the Third and climb the leagues immediately, Celtic would have perhaps a decade before Rangers could mount a credible challenge. That means the Champions route through the CL qualifiers for a decade, a fighting chance of entering the CL itself for ten years, and a decade of domestic success. I don't think Rangers would ever be in a position to overturn those gains. On the other hand, give an FC Rangers something pathetic like a 15 points penalty for a few seasons, debt-free, and the financial arms-race between the two would be back within five years, maximum.

Celtic would turn in comfortably 45,000, without Rangers, if they were dominant. Any plc could work quite easily with that revenue.

Edited February 24, 2012 by vikingTON

[pozbaird]

St Mirren got lucky

... Only in one regard did we get lucky - the timing of the Tesco deal happened just before the banking crisis and 'credit crunch'. Nothing else about it was remotely lucky. Everything else was down to a lot of people putting in a lot of hard work to get planning, retail zoning, and to negotiate with Morrisons prior to Tesco coming to the fore.

I would recommend pages 174 and 175 of our club's 'Final Chapter' book for some further info!

Anyway, we digress.... are they dead yet? Or just resting. The Govan Blue... lovely plumage the Govan Blue.

[DomDom]

People need to be banned for taking this off topic pretty much right off the bat.

[Jussy]

... Only in one regard did we get lucky - the timing of the Tesco deal happened just before the banking crisis and 'credit crunch'. Nothing else about it was remotely lucky. Everything else was down to a lot of people putting in a lot of hard work to get planning, retail zoning, and to negotiate with Morrisons prior to Tesco coming to the fore.

I would recommend pages 174 and 175 of our club's 'Final Chapter' book for some further info!

Anyway, we digress.... are they dead yet? Or just resting. The Govan Blue... lovely plumage the Govan Blue.

I apologise, what I meant was that relative to situation other debt ridden SPL clubs find themselves in it was a lucky break. No doubt plenty work and thought went into it though.

[pozbaird]

People need to be banned for taking this off topic pretty much right off the bat.

I didnae' start it. Honest Guv...

All it needs is a cheeky wee bodyswerve to get it back on track. Like this....

Ellis apologising to the Rangers fans for introducing Whyte to the club. Ally McCoist shocked, but not surprised at revelations about Whyte. Gordon Smith firing a parting shot at Whyte as he leaves his post. Alex Salmond stepping back from the debate as Whyte's character is ripped to shreds... He becomes more toxic by the day. Can Whyte stick it out and 'finish what he started'.

Nicely back on topic. No-one will ever remember the off-topic posts when the thread hits 10,000 pages...

[Swello]

As if! The man's been banging on about the Scottish set up being a fiddle for years to suit the Old Firm. If he's given the chance to hammer the stake into the Ibrox vampire, he'll do so after first putting on his best dancing shoes so he can tango afterwards.

Secondly, and this may come as a bloody big shock to the "hands across the M8" wankers (thankfully a dying breed), Hearts would be mad to pass up the opportunity to destroy Rangers for good especially if it meant ensuring that Hibernian - their biggest money spinning match of the season - is preserved by any danger of their relegation this year being null and void due to a need for restructuring.

Thirdly, Romanov is a hard-headed businessman. Given the chance to remove a major competitor for good, he'll not pass it up. The whole "history" and "Scottish institution" means SFA to a Russian whose seen his country and the nations he trades in go through massive social and economic upheavals in the last 50 years the likes of which the Scots mentality cannot begin to appreciate. He, like many in Eastern Europe, doesn't swallow that "there must always be" sentimentalist tosh.

So what if money is lost in the short term (and anyone that honestly believes all those Rangers fans will be lost to Scottish football forever is living in dreamland)? In the medium to long term an easier passage to European competition awaits and it will be easier to secure investment being part of a system that no longer reeks of being a two team stitch up (with one of those two having highly dubious links to the upper echelons of the corridors of power not only at Hampden).

Rangers death will be bloody marvellous business for Mad Vlad as it will for many other Scottish clubs, especially those that never saw a whiff of all that Sky TV money the pub bores tell you is so "vital" to the game up here. For the first time in over 100 years, many clubs will be seeing a real opportunity to become real success stories, not merely some "wee team" bolthole when their "big team"'s doing relatively poorly.

My only fear is that upon the happy event, the SFA, SPL & SFL will demand "emergency restructuring", and rush through a 20 league Premier League and 22 Division Division One for two seasons, in order to let clubs find their "natural level". Rangers 2012 are elected to the vacancy in the new 22 team Division 1, they win it at a canter, and are comfortably in the top 12 at the end of season 2013/14 when it reverts back to a 12-10-10-10 set up.

Again - I like the sentiments and I want these things to happen - but the "death" of Rangers which you're basing this on is just misty eyed fantasy and nothing more. Do you honestly think that an entity called "Rangers" won't be about after this?

[flood]

... Only in one regard did we get lucky - the timing of the Tesco deal happened just before the banking crisis and 'credit crunch'. Nothing else about it was remotely lucky. Everything else was down to a lot of people putting in a lot of hard work to get planning, retail zoning, and to negotiate with Morrisons prior to Tesco coming to the fore.

You got lucky, and it was too small for Tesco at the end of the day. That is why they never developed it.

Tesco made an arse of it, and you survived. Not through great planning.

[Fife Saint]

I have to laugh at the mention of luck when an old stadium has been bought. I bet you Gilmour could give you a few hours of narrative regarding how 'lucky' they were.

The same accusation has been made of us, and it's nonsense.