Who Has Got Snow Tyers

[flyingscot]

I am not attacking him for fitting winter tyres I am attacking his reasoning behind fitting winter tyres, as far as I can make out he feels that he can now drive faster in these conditions with these tyres which is more dangerous than someone who can drive properly with standard tyres on. The salesmen at Kwikfit have a lot to answer for.

He probably can drive slightly faster, but whether that is a good idea depends on his skill.

Both snow socks and chain mentioned above are a waste of time. Faff to put on and then when you reach a clear road with tarmac showing you have to take them off, to avoid damaging the road or chains or ripping the snow socks apart.

[stonedsailor]

He probably can drive slightly faster, but whether that is a good idea depends on his skill.

Both snow socks and chain mentioned above are a waste of time. Faff to put on and then when you reach a clear road with tarmac showing you have to take them off, to avoid damaging the road or chains or ripping the snow socks apart.

If you know the limits of your vehicle and it's fittings then a skillful driver will be able to tackle most conditions, if they are unable to or at least feel unable to cope with the conditions then they wont drive.

I would say, whether you have winter tyres fitted or not, if you feel that the weather is going to be so harsh that a possibility of becoming stranded is real then snow socks or chains are essential equipment in your boot along with a shovel, warning triangle and blankets.

Not so much time wasted here, in comparison to being stuck and waiting for the rescue wagon.

Also, do you think that anyone who believes that winter tyres do NOT slip on snow has a level of skill high enough to gain a driver's licence, let alone be allowed on the roads solo during the winter period?

[Demented Zebra]

Are you seriously saying that winter tyres will not slip on snow? That they will hold on snow covered ice patches? They will hold on compacted snow with a thin layer of ice on it? No wonder you are so easily relieved of your money. A false sense of security is more dangerous than no security at all.

.There is a difference between snow and ice and no it is not a false sense security Just because you have winter tyres you still drive according to the conditions.

All the evidence is out there that winter tyres are much safer than normal tyres during winter. Why are you arguing against the use of winter tyres when the factual evidence is there for you to read on the web

The type of tyres on a vehicle does not cause accidents, the driver of the vehicle being unprepared and pushing the car's limits in the given conditions is what causes accidents. As far as I can see people fitting winter tyres do so thinking that they can drive faster in the conditions when what is needed is for people to slow down and adjust their driving style to suit.

Hello is any body in ?

The type of tyres on a vehicle does not cause accidents that's a classic line Where are you getting that from ?

Tyres are one of many very important areas on a car that need your attention to make sure they are road worthy.

As far as I can see people fitting winter tyres do so thinking that they can drive faster Another silly line

.Show me your evidence that people who put winter tyres on drive faster. Fact is the pperson who puts winter tyres on is the exact opposite because that person thinks safety first that’s the whole point why winter tyres are put on a car

[Tamdunk]

I just dont bother driving when its really bad. When I really had to drive it wasn't during the worst of it so wasn't really a problem. Just take it slowly.

[stonedsailor]

.There is a difference between snow and ice and no it is not a false sense security Just because you have winter tyres you still drive according to the conditions.

All the evidence is out there that winter tyres are much safer than normal tyres during winter. Why are you arguing against the use of winter tyres when the factual evidence is there for you to read on the web

If you don't have winter tyres on you still drive according to the conditions, of the weather and your tyres.

Just like the factual evidence you gave of the Germans having a legal requirement for winter tyres when they just have a ban on summer tyres during periods of snow and ice? Like the factual evidence you gave of the majority of mainland European countries requiring winter tyres in the winter? Like the factual evidence of Belgium, Holland and France requiring winter tyres? Like the factual evidence that winter tyres do NOT slip on snow? Give me a break, winter tyres are not safer they just adjust the parameters at which you can drive your vehicle.

The type of tyres on a vehicle does not cause accidents, the driver of the vehicle being unprepared and pushing the car's limits in the given conditions is what causes accidents. As far as I can see people fitting winter tyres do so thinking that they can drive faster in the conditions when what is needed is for people to slow down and adjust their driving style to suit.

Hello is any body in ?

The type of tyres on a vehicle does not cause accidents that's a classic line Where are you getting that from ?

Tyres are one of many very important areas on a car that need your attention to make sure they are road worthy.

Tyres are inanimate objects until they are controlled, via a cars pedals, by a human being. Pieces of rubber do not cause accidents, the people controlling them can.

As far as I can see people fitting winter tyres do so thinking that they can drive faster Another silly line

.Show me your evidence that people who put winter tyres on drive faster. Fact is the pperson who puts winter tyres on is the exact opposite because that person thinks safety first that’s the whole point why winter tyres are put on a car

Why not just make sure you have plenty of tread, slow down and increase your stopping distance? It saves on fuel and extra tyre costs.

[Spain]

If you don't have winter tyres on you still drive according to the conditions, of the weather and your tyres.

Just like the factual evidence you gave of the Germans having a legal requirement for winter tyres when they just have a ban on summer tyres during periods of snow and ice? Like the factual evidence you gave of the majority of mainland European countries requiring winter tyres in the winter? Like the factual evidence of Belgium, Holland and France requiring winter tyres? Like the factual evidence that winter tyres do NOT slip on snow? Give me a break, winter tyres are not safer they just adjust the parameters at which you can drive your vehicle.

Tyres are inanimate objects until they are controlled, via a cars pedals, by a human being. Pieces of rubber do not cause accidents, the people controlling them can.

Why not just make sure you have plenty of tread, slow down and increase your stopping distance? It saves on fuel and extra tyre costs.

Jesus f**k man do you get caught up on semantics. There is legislation in a vast majority of European countries, maybe not a full legal requirement, but legislation stating when they are required nonetheless. If you really want to be get caught up in semantics about it all, then I can inform you that you are wrong, and that nothing will slip on snow. Instead, it will compact snow into a film of ice, and upon the ice the slip will occur. Is that the level you're really wanting to go to or are you just trying to belittle someone? And winter tyres are safer, as they reduce stopping distances. End of. They may not be necessary for everyone, but even if they only reduced stopping distances by 0.005mm then that would be regarded as an improvement, i.e. safer. So stop your pedancy and give the guy a break.

[stonedsailor]

Jesus f**k man do you get caught up on semantics. There is legislation in a vast majority of European countries, maybe not a full legal requirement, but legislation stating when they are required nonetheless. If you really want to be get caught up in semantics about it all, then I can inform you that you are wrong, and that nothing will slip on snow. Instead, it will compact snow into a film of ice, and upon the ice the slip will occur. Is that the level you're really wanting to go to or are you just trying to belittle someone? And winter tyres are safer, as they reduce stopping distances. End of. They may not be necessary for everyone, but even if they only reduced stopping distances by 0.005mm then that would be regarded as an improvement, i.e. safer. So stop your pedancy and give the guy a break.

Nothing slips on snow? care to explain sledging to me?

Increasing the distance between yourself and the object in front of you is also as safe as reducing the stopping distance and driving closer, no?

EDIT- It's not the vast majority of European countries which have legislation regarding winter tyres, did you check the link I posted earlier?

[Demented Zebra]

Stonedsailor,

My friend may I suggest keeping off the weed as you can’t grasp the bigger picture. That's sound advice I have given you before you know it life will have passed you by.

Putting an argument up against a product built for safety is hilarious to say the least.

Who wrote tyres cause accidents what part of space did you pull that out from

Here is some info for you to read.

Robert Abram, product planning manager at Yokohama Tire Corporation describes the difference: "The compounding and tread designs for winter tires are altered from traditional all-season tires to maximize grip. Even the best all-season tires have compounds that get more brittle as the temperature drops, and when that happens, the tires tend to grip less. The winter tire compound remains pliable when temperatures are low, retaining grip."

Without grip, most of your car's safety functions - like all-wheel drive and anti-lock brakes - can't do their jobs correctly.

Doug Brown, brand category manager for BFGoodrich Tires agrees. "Having a second set of dedicated snow tires gives you a margin of safety and a sense of security to get where you're going," he says. "You will increase your ability to start on a hill, stop the vehicle and to maneuver in deep snow that can't be achieved with conventional tires."

For the guy's who say only put two winter tyres on

Even if you have two-wheel drive, you should put snow tires on every wheel of your vehicle. Putting them only on the front wheels of a front-wheel drive car can cause spinouts or result in diminished steering capabilities in a rear-wheel drive car. Trust us, it's worth the extra dough to do all four wheels at once.

Germany

Motorists are obliged to make sure they have correct tyres to suit the winter weather conditions. This may mean the use of winter tyres (with M&S or snowflake symbol) and in extreme weather

Sweden

Winter tyres which must be marked M&S are compulsory from December 1st until March 31st with a minimum tread depth of 3mm.

Norway

Winter tyres are not compulsory

Latvia

Winter tyres are compulsory

Finland

In Finland winter tyres are compulsory

[Michael W]

I fucking love finishing my work late at night when the car park is icy. Get the car moving, throw the steering wheel and floor the throttle then let the arse kick out.

I had a good bit of fun in the car park at Kirkcaldy station a couple of years ago. You didn't even have to be going fast round the corners to get the back end out, so I'd take the corner then correct the slide. Both fun and educational.

[rajpelt]

Going to get straight down to Kwik-Fit after reading this thread, sure they'll cut me a deal.

Either that or I'll just drive as per last year.

[stonedsailor]

Stonedsailor,

My friend may I suggest keeping off the weed as you can’t grasp the bigger picture. That's sound advice I have given you before you know it life will have passed you by.

Putting an argument up against a product built for safety is hilarious to say the least.

Who wrote tyres cause accidents what part of space did you pull that out from

Here is some info for you to read.

For the guy's who say only put two winter tyres on

I shall repost this as you obviously missed it first time-

We believe snow tyres are difficult to justify unless you live in a very remote area.

Read more: http://www.which.co..../#ixzz1ffTulIcO

Consumer Champions Which?

Under Creative Commons License: Attribution Non-Commercial

Also since you have taken to posting quotes from other sites as evidence, tyre manufactures testaments might well bee seen as biased.

I am not against winter tyres in the correct circumstances but the winters here in Scotland do not justify the expense of having them fitted, do you change out to wet weather tyres when it rains? I am sure the difference between normal summer tyres and wet weather tyres would be just as significant as the difference between summer and winter tyres and given the amount of rain we get every year would be a more justifiable expense.

What I am against is the scaremongering tactics used by tyre salesmen to sell something which is not needed if people would just adjust their driving accordingly.

The countries which you mentioned, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Latvia and Finland are all justified in their legislation due to the fact that their winters are far more harsh than ours. I worked in the south of Finland for a couple of years, sailing between Helsinki, Koptka and Hamina and believe me even our record low temperatures seem mild in comparison to the norm there.

I believe you have been sucked in by the hype and heres to a nice mild winter after this wee cold spell.

[welshbairn]

Got a set of Michelin Alpine tyers though I have to say was gob smacked by the cost. But you can't put a price on safety and after last winter we want to be ready this time.

Most countries on mainland Europe make it law that you must put winter tyers on.

go on, tell us how much you paid for your alpines then.

Someone definitely saw you coming today. How much did they make from you?

i drove past arnold clarkes in paisley and they were advertising 4 winter tyres starting from only £270!!!

f**k that i thought, who is daft enough to pay that for 3 or 4 days out the year only to have to pay to get them replaced again.

So, how much did you pay?

No doubt a worthy and timely message from the Zebra, but why the big secret?

[flyingscot]

No doubt a worthy and timely message from the Zebra, but why the big secret?

Depending on size they can be £80-£120 a corner I'd suggest

[stonedsailor]

Depending on size they can be £80-£120 a corner I'd suggest

But we want to know how much Zebra got feeced invested, hopefully he went for the higher standard of tyre because even though the poor spec winter tyres out performed all of the equivilent all weather tyres on snow in the test results I read, the lower standard ones failed to beat the higher standard all weather tyres on ice tests. I am sure the demented one will know this of course and he will have based his purchase on all the available data.

[die hard doonhamer]

I got about fine in my 1.2 Clio with normal tyres last year, and I imagine it'll be the same again this year. I live at the bottom of a reasonable sized hill as well, and only struggled with it once due to me pressing the throttle too hard about half way up.

Sensible driving is the key. Not winter tyres.

[Spain]

Nothing slips on snow? care to explain sledging to me?

I'll happily explain it in the same pedantic way. Sledging works by the weight of the sledge acting upon the snow; As we all know, Pressure, Mass and Temperature are all relative. When the pressure acts upon the snow, the mass and temperature are affected. The snow compacts, and a minscule film of ice and water is formed on top. Where water lies on top of ice, resistance is severely reduced, which in turn causes the sledge to glide effortlessly over the top.

Increasing the distance between yourself and the object in front of you is also as safe as reducing the stopping distance and driving closer, no?

Err, yes. Did you think I would dispute this? I was saying that decreasing the stopping distance of your car is "safer", you however said it wasn't. I agree that increasing the distance between vehicles also helps, as would reducing speed and many other factors.

EDIT- It's not the vast majority of European countries which have legislation regarding winter tyres, did you check the link I posted earlier?

Perhaps you should do some more research, I've compiled a wee list of countries that have legislation regarding winter tyres or snow chains, be it with regard to them being compulsary, or just with regards to liability in the event of an accident. I've put the ones that only have snow chains in italics and underlined, also worth a note that Belgium have their legislation in the opposite way, whereas some winter tyres are not allowed during the summer.

Albania, Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxemburg, Macedonia, Montenegro, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey.

[Spain]

I shall repost this as you obviously missed it first time-

Also since you have taken to posting quotes from other sites as evidence, tyre manufactures testaments might well bee seen as biased.

I am not against winter tyres in the correct circumstances but the winters here in Scotland do not justify the expense of having them fitted, do you change out to wet weather tyres when it rains? I am sure the difference between normal summer tyres and wet weather tyres would be just as significant as the difference between summer and winter tyres and given the amount of rain we get every year would be a more justifiable expense.

What I am against is the scaremongering tactics used by tyre salesmen to sell something which is not needed if people would just adjust their driving accordingly.

The countries which you mentioned, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Latvia and Finland are all justified in their legislation due to the fact that their winters are far more harsh than ours. I worked in the south of Finland for a couple of years, sailing between Helsinki, Koptka and Hamina and believe me even our record low temperatures seem mild in comparison to the norm there.

I believe you have been sucked in by the hype and heres to a nice mild winter after this wee cold spell.

But we want to know how much Zebra got feeced invested, hopefully he went for the higher standard of tyre because even though the poor spec winter tyres out performed all of the equivilent all weather tyres on snow in the test results I read, the lower standard ones failed to beat the higher standard all weather tyres on ice tests. I am sure the demented one will know this of course and he will have based his purchase on all the available data.

See, you say you aren't attacking the guy, when you blatently are. This isn't a simple "here mate, you probably didn't need them" approach you took here. Plus, do you know his entire circumstances so as whether they would really be a benefit to him or not?

[THE KING]

pair of michelin easy grips from costco 60 bangers....sorted.

[Demented Zebra]

stonedsailor,

There is factual independent testing be done that proves winter tyres will stop you by a very large margin in snow and on ice compared to normal tyres. Auto Express have all the test results available on line

Your asking me if I change the tyres when it’s raining. Again independent test results show in the winter months the winter tyres will stop far shorter than conventional tyres on a wet road.

Finally surly a tyres which have proved to stop at far greater distances handle far superiorly on snow and iced roads including wet winter roads has to be a good thing.

We have the choice as to whether you want that extra safety in the winter months.

I am lucky in that I can go and put these tyres on our car with the knowledge that maybe it will help to keep the family on the move living in an out laying area with the add safety at the same time. It’s a no brainier.

Personally if the manufacturer of tyres would bring the cost down far more families would purchase these tyres.

pair of michelin easy grips from costco 60 bangers....sorted.

Yep that's where I got mine last month with 20% off

[stonedsailor]

I'll happily explain it in the same pedantic way. Sledging works by the weight of the sledge acting upon the snow; As we all know, Pressure, Mass and Temperature are all relative. When the pressure acts upon the snow, the mass and temperature are affected. The snow compacts, and a minscule film of ice and water is formed on top. Where water lies on top of ice, resistance is severely reduced, which in turn causes the sledge to glide effortlessly over the top.

Err, yes. Did you think I would dispute this? I was saying that decreasing the stopping distance of your car is "safer", you however said it wasn't. I agree that increasing the distance between vehicles also helps, as would reducing speed and many other factors.

Perhaps you should do some more research, I've compiled a wee list of countries that have legislation regarding winter tyres or snow chains, be it with regard to them being compulsary, or just with regards to liability in the event of an accident. I've put the ones that only have snow chains in italics and underlined, also worth a note that Belgium have their legislation in the opposite way, whereas some winter tyres are not allowed during the summer.

Albania, Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxemburg, Macedonia, Montenegro, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey.

Nice list of countries, which ones is it that it is mandatory ie a legal requirement to have winter tyres fitted to your car as stated by the dementedzebra? Links would be nice.

Nice explanation for the snow thing cheers for taking the time to explain. It brings heehaw to the discussion though other than you are stating on snow winter tyres are no safer than summer tyres. I also found this quote which states there is another school of thought as to why snow and ice are slippery and that at temperatures of 0 degrees and below pressure does not make that much of a difference.

What scientists actually think is going on is that probably because you have an ice surface and there’ll be water molecules on the surface which are not tethered to other water molecules, they exist more as a liquid than as a solid. So, all ice is covered in a very thin, at a molecular level, layer of water. Michael Faraday showed this quite convincingly because he got two ice cubes, which are both slippery, put them together and they stuck. Now, if there wasn’t water there, then they wouldn’t have stuck together.

I take that to mean that in the natural state of lying snow there is always a layer of water there at molecular level ergo snow is slippy.

I never said decreasing a car's stopping distance was not safer, I said it was not any safer than increasing the distance between your car and an object in front of it.