Arbroathlegend36-0 Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 With living in Sheffield I've been speaking to people about the day and one conversation I had I found interesting. He said that on local news a couple of weeks before the game they felt that something terrible would happen on the day because of what had happened at the previous semi final the year before. Think he said it was Manchester United that was the club and the same happend with people getting squashed and even that day the police opened the gate to let the fans in. But also Liverpool was the biggest team in England at that time and it was pretty unusual of them only getting 1 stand of the ground while forest got the other 3 which he thought at the time was completely bizarre and bonkers. I do agree the police were to blame and that's fully down to David Duckenfield. This was Duckenfield first match as match commander and there was no meeting with fellow officers before the match as he didn't see the point of it and that was his biggest mistake. Unfortunately officers that worked that day are now living in fear of getting prosecuted even though they only knew how to deal with the situation the best they could. I know someone who is scared of being sent down because they maybe getting prosecuted for helping but maybe not seen helping enough on the day which I found disgusting because Duckenfield is to blame for all this because he didn't have back up plans if something went wrong on the day it's because he didn't want to brief the officers before the match. The police have had emergency meetings in Sheffield these past few days and to to be honest it not looking good for South Yorkshire police with this and also the stuff that's been happening in Rotherham. There could be jobs lost because of this and this includes my wife's job so it's not looking good for Sheffield just now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 (edited) Liverpool was the biggest team in England at that time and it was pretty unusual of them only getting 1 stand of the ground while forest got the other 3 which he thought at the time was completely bizarre and bonkers. It appears to have been more subtle than this. Nottingham Forest were allocated about 30,000 tickets and Liverpool about 25,000. Each received 1 side and 1 end, chosen to avoid clashes on the travel routes. It had only just sold out (Wikipedia suggests only the day before). Unless you go with the 'ticketless fans' theory - which Taylor, the independent panel and inquest didn't - then size of support isn't a factor anyway: had people been able to access their appropriate section safely, and the central pens not over-filled, disaster would have been avoided. What caused the disaster was the fact Liverpool's stands were accessed from 1 street - Forest's had 2 - and had many fewer turnstiles available. Plus there were different turnstiles for each area - the North side (seats), the West upper (seats) and West lower (terrace). These factors - coupled with the bad lay-out, planning and decision-making - caused the build-up of supporters and potential crush outside. Due to that they chose to open an exit gate, and having not closed the access into the centre of the West lower caused the crush inside - there were more people in the central pens than could safely be accommodated, but the side pens were actually sparsely filled. At various points decisions could and should have been made differently, but unlimited numbers of Liverpool fans weren't intended for the one end. It was discussed a page or two back but had the allocations simply been the other way around it could as easily have been Forest fans killed. This doesn't seem to be a new conclusion - Taylor stated in his report: I do not consider choice of ends was causative of the disaster. Had it been reversed, the disaster could well have occurred in a similar manner but to Nottingham supporters Edited April 30, 2016 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Prince Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 There's a video of Motherwell fans singing it when we won the first division back in the eighties. It wouldn't get sung now. Hibs fans used to sing it in the 80's/90's as well apparently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dindeleux Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 I remember Simply the Best getting played at Rugby Park as recently as 20 years ago before everyone started to get all weepy about its connections. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 I have watched a few Youtube vidoes about this and think this one is an excellent summary. It really sums up the mistakes Duckenfield admitted to making: I also have to say it is worth looking through the HIP report. I have only read the first four chapters so far but it is really shocking to see all of the mistakes that were made in the lead up to that day - it really was an accident waiting to happen. It is especially shocking to see the fact that just about everyone knew there were problems with that stadium and they were ignored. The fire service even submitted a 5 page list of safety concerns that were never addressed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Its just so Scottish that the biggest sporting disaster in the UK and people getting annoyed at excessive public emotion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Im pretty sure Hillsborough is the biggest loss of life in one incident there has been in the UK since the war. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Im pretty sure Hillsborough is the biggest loss of life in one incident there has been in the UK since the war. I think there have been a couple with greater death tolls, it depends if you want to include terrorism (Lockerbie) or natural disasters like storms etc in that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 I had forgotten about Lockerbie - don't think there has been anything else leaving anywhere near as many as 96 dead. It's strange hearing people saying it's the worst sporting incident when it's one of the worst incidents and losses of life in living memory in the country full stop. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 I know what you mean, I think that is because it was seen through the lens as being a 'football' incident for so long. People where happy to see it as that due to football's poor reputation at the time, when in fact it was a national tragedy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 There will have been various rail or air crashes, coal mining and offshore accidents, shipwrecks, and so forth since the war with similar or higher death tolls - I'm thinking of the Princess Victoria and Herald of Free Enterprise ferry sinkings, Aberfan disaster, Piper Alpha, etc. - but Hillsborough will be the biggest "entertainment" accident by some way, surely. After that it'll be the Ibrox disaster, Valley Parade - perhaps cinema, nightclub or theatre fires. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wile E Coyote Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Im pretty sure Hillsborough is the biggest loss of life in one incident there has been in the UK since the war. Google Aberfan disaster 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Google Aberfan disaster How awful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wile E Coyote Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 How awful. Yes, made all the more worse by the fact it engulfed the school. Its a tragedy that seems to have been forgotten about. I am probably be a bit older than you (but not old enough to have been around when it happened) and I think I have only seen mention of it a couple of times. Although I am sure in Aberfan and the surrounding area it is still a big part of the community 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 The story does ring a bell, I think it was on here I heard it mentioned actually. You would have thought it would be far better known than it is though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 (edited) Some things just fade from public perception in time, I suppose. If you stopped 100 people in the street how many would even know of the sinking of Princess Victoria. Seems a slightly macabre list but I suppose it also puts things in context. I've excluded things like the London smog, heatwaves / coldsnaps, the Troubles, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_disasters_in_Great_Britain_and_Ireland_by_death_toll 270 - Lockerbie airliner bombing 193 - Herald of Free Enterprise ferry sinking 167 - Piper Alpha oil platform fire 144 - Aberfan slag heap disaster 133 - Princess Victoria ferry sinking (91 died elsewhere at sea and 307 on land by North Sea floods caused by the same storm) 118 - Staines air crash 112 - Harrow rail crash 104 - Whitehaven mine disaster 96 - Hillsborough stadium crush 90 - Lewisham rail crash 81 - Easington mine disaster 80 - Llandow air crash 80 - Creswell mine disaster 75 - sinking of HMS Affray 72 - Stockport air crash 66 - Ibrox stadium crush 64 - sinking of HMS Truculent 56 - Valley Parade stadium fire 56 - 7/7 London bombings 55 - Manchester air crash 51 - Marchioness pleasureboat sinking 50 - Summerland leisure centre fire 49 - Hither Green rail crash 47 - Samtampa steamship sinking 47 - Auchengeich mine disaster 47 - Kegworth air crash 45 - Aberbeeg mine disaster 45 - Isle of Wight flying boat crash 45 - Sumburgh helicopter crash 43 - Bourne End rail crash 43 - Moorgate underground crash 41 - Little Baldon air crash Edited May 1, 2016 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Some things just fade from public perception in time, I suppose. If you stopped 100 people in the street how many would even know of the sinking of Princess Victoria. Seems a slightly macabre list but I suppose it also puts things in context. I've excluded things like the London smog, European heatwave, the Troubles, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_disasters_in_Great_Britain_and_Ireland_by_death_toll 270 - Lockerbie airliner bombing 193 - Herald of Free Enterprise ferry sinking 167 - Piper Alpha oil platform fire 144 - Aberfan slag heap disaster 133 - Princess Victoria ferry sinking (91 died elsewhere at sea and 307 on land by North Sea floods caused by the same storm) 118 - Staines air crash 112 - Harrow rail crash 104 - Whitehaven mine disaster 96 - Hillsborough stadium crush 90 - Lewisham rail crash 81 - Easington mine disaster 80 - Llandow air crash 80 - Creswell mine disaster 75 - sinking of HMS Affray 72 - Stockport air crash 66 - Ibrox stadium crush 64 - sinking of HMS Truculent 56 - Valley Parade stadium fire 56 - 7/7 London bombings 55 - Manchester air crash 51 - Marchioness pleasureboat sinking 50 - Summerland leisure centre fire 49 - Hither Green rail crash 47 - Samtampa steamship sinking 47 - Auchengeich mine disaster 47 - Kegworth air crash 45 - Aberbeeg mine disaster 45 - Isle of Wight flying boat crash 45 - Sumburgh helicopter crash 43 - Bourne End rail crash 43 - Moorgate underground crash 41 - Little Baldon air crash Is it bad taste to have Whole Lotta Love playing in my head? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 I had no idea there were that many fatalities on the Piper Alpha. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Snelders Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 I had no idea there were that many fatalities on the Piper Alpha. Hi Throbber,yes putting it mildly, that was a very bad day. Here is an account from a Hillsborough survivor http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/may/01/hillsborough-inquest-survivor-adrian-tempany 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Yes, made all the more worse by the fact it engulfed the school. Its a tragedy that seems to have been forgotten about. I am probably be a bit older than you (but not old enough to have been around when it happened) and I think I have only seen mention of it a couple of times. Although I am sure in Aberfan and the surrounding area it is still a big part of the community I can remember Aberfan. I was a teenager at the time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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