Tom Rogic Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 While safety in stadia has improved beyond recognition since 1989 the police and state view of football fans as lowlifes and potential hooligans still is rife, in Scotland moreso than anywhere 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thereisalight.. Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 (edited) yes, why didn't they just sit down and shut up. good grief. what's wrong with you. On Bradford, I assume that this story completely passed you by last year on the 30th anniversary of that awful fire. I'm very well aware of that story, hence why I mentioned it as an example of a tragedy where there is "blame". Was there blanket coverage of it on every bleeding news broadcast or pages and pages of it in newspapers like Hillsborough has been? No is the answer Edited April 27, 2016 by Thereisalight.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thereisalight.. Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Is anyone watching the SSN coverage? Kenny Dalglish reading footprints and Andy Burnham fobbing into his wanking sock while playing to the gallery? Jesus wept. Its total overkill (no pun intended) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Snelders Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 so in 1988, with an experienced matchday controller in charge of crowd control, the liverpool fans were involved in a crush, then in 1989 with an inexperienced matchday controller and without adequate crowd control, the liverpool fans were again involved in a crush, only this time it resulted in a disaster due to the police reactions differing from the year before 2 years in a row the liverpool fans were involved in a crush yet they have been cleared of any blame, even the slightest part, even accidental blame Thats the jury's conclusion, but i dont agree with it, i just dont see how the same set of fans can be involved in a crush at the same end of the same ground 2 years in a row, but then told, your behaviour didnt contribute Did you watch the film posted earlier explaining the bottle neck and lack of turnstiles? Have you taken the time to read the evidence and stuff about crowd dynamics? Regarding the Spurs fans mentioned above- I'm pretty sure some of their fans experienced broken bones caused by the crush they were in that day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Equalizer Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 There is a remarkable amount of hair splitting going on in this thread. You can go all the way back to the F.A for holding the game at a ground without a valid safety certificate, even further if you were so inclined. Did the actions of the fans on the day make an already bad situation worse? Probably. It may have been mass panic or just general mob cuntishness but the fact remains that there was a cover up at every fucking level of society to collectively lie to the entire nation and sully the names of 96 dead football fans. Some of them children. Aren't we missing the bigger picture here? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 I'd say that the big picture is that everyone should be held accountable. And now they won't be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Equalizer Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 I'd say that the big picture is that everyone should be held accountable. And now they won't be. On the contrary, I reckon a few will be flayed to satisfy the baying mob. The way this is gathering pace every journalist in the metropolitan area will suddenly be working for the Liverpool Echo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamdunk Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Appearing in Liverpool tonight 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Equalizer Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Appearing in Liverpool tonight Did he drop the r from his name? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Snelders Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 There is a remarkable amount of hair splitting going on in this thread. You can go all the way back to the F.A for holding the game at a ground without a valid safety certificate, even further if you were so inclined. Did the actions of the fans on the day make an already bad situation worse? Probably. It may have been mass panic or just general mob cuntishness but the fact remains that there was a cover up at every fucking level of society to collectively lie to the entire nation and sully the names of 96 dead football fans. Some of them children. Aren't we missing the bigger picture here? This exactly. Private Eye noted some time ago that the families appear to have been under survailance too, phones tapped etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Rogic Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Prosecuting negligent officers on duty at the ground may be very difficult but I certainly think the ones who lied in court and in statements, as well as those who doctored and altered many police and witness statements, personally and by bullying individuals should have the book thrown at them and then some. Conspiracy to pervert the course of justice I believe is the term. Regardless of your views on Hillsborough, Liverpool fans, the findings of the panels etc if, as a society that is allowed to go unpunished, no matter the length of time since it happened then we are on a very slippery slope. The lies, deceit and intimidation simply must result in prosecution to ensure that such a dangerous precedent isnt repeated 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Equalizer Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Prosecuting negligent officers on duty at the ground may be very difficult but I certainly think the ones who lied in court and in statements, as well as those who doctored and altered many police and witness statements, personally and by bullying individuals should have the book thrown at them and then some. Conspiracy to pervert the course of justice I believe is the term. Regardless of your views on Hillsborough, Liverpool fans, the findings of the panels etc if, as a society that is allowed to go unpunished, no matter the length of time since it happened then we are on a very slippery slope. The lies, deceit and intimidation simply must result in prosecution to ensure that such a dangerous precedent isnt repeated Where do you draw the line though? This is a 27 year witch hunt that has just been ratified. The recriminations can't be rushed or we could be looking at more injustice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Rogic Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Where do you draw the line though? This is a 27 year witch hunt that has just been ratified. The recriminations can't be rushed or we could be looking at more injustice. If and where its proven individuals have lied, either in statements or in court or by altering statements directly or through intimidation that has to bring about charges. The amount of doctored and fabricated police statements alone runs into four figures. Its extremely dangerous for Police and others to have the power to do so without fear of consequence. Regardless of how long ago these acts of cover up took place, where it can be proved they MUST result in charges 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Equalizer Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 If and where its proven individuals have lied, either in statements or in court or by altering statements directly or through intimidation that has to bring about charges. The amount of doctored and fabricated police statements alone runs into four figures. Its extremely dangerous for Police and others to have the power to do so without fear of consequence. Regardless of how long ago these acts of cover up took place, where it can be proved they MUST result in charges And you have faith in the very system that allowed the aforementioned corruption and intimidation to take place to justly investigate and prosecute? We have to be careful not to see this as a watershed moment. This isn't going to change the police culture or the inherent self preservation that runs through every level of government. Nor will it make everyone in fleet street wake up tomorrow with a conscience. What it will do if we are not very careful is create a lot of scapegoats very very quickly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resk Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Anyone who still thinks "it wiz ra scousers, shoving" should do themselves a favour - go to Hillsborough.independent.gov.uk and read the Fkin thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 And you have faith in the very system that allowed the aforementioned corruption and intimidation to take place to justly investigate and prosecute? We have to be careful not to see this as a watershed moment. This isn't going to change the police culture or the inherent self preservation that runs through every level of government. Nor will it make everyone in fleet street wake up tomorrow with a conscience. What it will do if we are not very careful is create a lot of scapegoats very very quickly. While scapegoats will be created, those scapegoats will deserve what they get so I have no problem with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Equalizer Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 While scapegoats will be created, those scapegoats will deserve what they get so I have no problem with it. So just hang hem high and f**k the truth now we've finally been absolved and got someone to blame? That's exactly the kind of attitude that breeds anti Liverpool sentiments in regard to this issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 So just hang hem high and f**k the truth now we've finally been absolved and got someone to blame? That's exactly the kind of attitude that breeds anti Liverpool sentiments in regard to this issue. Problem is, what kind of justice are you expecting here? You seem to be a bit naive. There's absolutely no hope of proper justice in this case. So if some can be held responsible then it's better than the alternative. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Equalizer Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Problem is, what kind of justice are you expecting here? You seem to be a bit naive. There's absolutely no hope of proper justice in this case. So if some can be held responsible then it's better than the alternative. With all due respect I think that's a cop out, There shouldn't be an alternative to justice and a name taking exercise to appease a salivating public is exactly what we don't need. Someone said on here the other day that as a government we are very adept at taking the sting out out of contentious issues by just delaying things. That was a great point but what's needed now is reflection, we need to resist the urge to get carried away here. A precedent has already been set that a criminal investigation has run concurrently with an inquest for the first time in British legal history. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 There shouldn't be. But then I don't live in fantasy land. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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