Falcor Roar Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Tin foil hat brigade out in force in this thread. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKMAN Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 There's no way the enquiry was ever going to see the fans in any way accountable, for what happened that day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAD Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 There's no way the enquiry was ever going to see the fans in any way accountable, for what happened that day. Probably because they weren't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killienick Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 I feel dirty after reading some of the comments included in this thread. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Probably because they weren't.Any of them? I understand the people hurt or killed were blameless. But a criminal investigation will need to look at all the circumstances.Should the criminally poor response by the police absolve any others of culpability for their behaviour? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Snelders Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Any of them? I understand the people hurt or killed were blameless. But a criminal investigation will need to look at all the circumstances. Should the criminally poor response by the police absolve any others of culpability for their behaviour? FFS, I can't believe that that the findings of a jury, after sitting for two years,are still being questioned. Archie and me have already posted a film of what went on. Lots of reading here, but those who are interested, the evidence is all here. https://hillsboroughinquests.independent.gov.uk/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy85 Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 #JFT96 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrshireTon Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Couple of things - 1. "Unlawfully killed" - I don't get the phrasing here. No one is ever "lawfully killed" in this country unless shot by police in the act of a crime. Given that all deaths are "unlawful" this doesn't set them apart from any others. Wouldn't "accidental death" or "death by neglect/omission" have been more accurate? 2. The fans have been cleared of any blame. I'm taking this to mean that everyone had tickets (as I've had pointed out to me here before when I dared to suggest ticketless fans had to shoulder some blame). Given that there's no way all those fans would have fitted in that terracing, whose idea was it to print off and sell too many tickets for that end of the ground? I don't think this is all done by a long shot. Blame, resignations and compensation stuff will follow soon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Snelders Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 #JFT96 Indeed. Folk forget this could have happened to any of us at the time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 FFS, I can't believe that that the findings of a jury, after sitting for two years,are still being questioned. Archie and me have already posted a film of what went on. Lots of reading here, but those who are interested, the evidence is all here. https://hillsboroughinquests.independent.gov.uk/ That's what happens when people are blinkered/racist/bigoted I'm afraid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Couple of things - 1. "Unlawfully killed" - I don't get the phrasing here. No one is ever "lawfully killed" in this country unless shot by police in the act of a crime. Given that all deaths are "unlawful" this doesn't set them apart from any others. Wouldn't "accidental death" or "death by neglect/omission" have been more accurate? 2. The fans have been cleared of any blame. I'm taking this to mean that everyone had tickets (as I've had pointed out to me here before when I dared to suggest ticketless fans had to shoulder some blame). Given that there's no way all those fans would have fitted in that terracing, whose idea was it to print off and sell too many tickets for that end of the ground? I don't think this is all done by a long shot. Blame, resignations and compensation stuff will follow soon. I don't know if there were more tickets than spaces, 1/2 that terrace was virtually empty and not all the turnstiles were in operation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Rogic Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 I don't know if there were more tickets than spaces, 1/2 that terrace was virtually empty and not all the turnstiles were in operation. That was it in a nutshell. Side pens were half empty while two central pens were fatally overcrowded 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Any of them? I understand the people hurt or killed were blameless. But a criminal investigation will need to look at all the circumstances. Should the criminally poor response by the police absolve any others of culpability for their behaviour? I agree with you Sarge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrshireTon Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 I don't know if there were more tickets than spaces, 1/2 that terrace was virtually empty and not all the turnstiles were in operation. That was it in a nutshell. Side pens were half empty while two central pens were fatally overcrowdedThank you for that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Snelders Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Couple of things - 1. "Unlawfully killed" - I don't get the phrasing here. No one is ever "lawfully killed" in this country unless shot by police in the act of a crime. Given that all deaths are "unlawful" this doesn't set them apart from any others. Wouldn't "accidental death" or "death by neglect/omission" have been more accurate? 2. The fans have been cleared of any blame. I'm taking this to mean that everyone had tickets (as I've had pointed out to me here before when I dared to suggest ticketless fans had to shoulder some blame). Given that there's no way all those fans would have fitted in that terracing, whose idea was it to print off and sell too many tickets for that end of the ground? I don't think this is all done by a long shot. Blame, resignations and compensation stuff will follow soon. Manslaughter. That is what charges would be under the terms you describe. Can't explain your second point,although Liverpool did ask fans to send tickets back in to attempt to account for all those in attendance. Those who died had tickets on their person. As previously noted, Liverpool asked to change ends after crushing the previous year- and that was with crowd control in place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Manslaughter. That is what charges would be under the terms you describe. Can't explain your second point,although Liverpool did ask fans to send tickets back in to attempt to account for all those in attendance. Those who died had tickets on their person. As previously noted, Liverpool asked to change ends after crushing the previous year- and that was with crowd control in place. Was changing ends not having both sets of fans coming in the "wrong" way, i.e. Leppings Lane was the end convenient for Liverpool and the other end convenient for Nottingham? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Snelders Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Was changing ends not having both sets of fans coming in the "wrong" way, i.e. Leppings Lane was the end convenient for Liverpool and the other end convenient for Nottingham? Yes Granda, that's why the police refused the request. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 FFS, I can't believe that that the findings of a jury, after sitting for two years,are still being questioned. Archie and me have already posted a film of what went on. Lots of reading here, but those who are interested, the evidence is all here. https://hillsboroughinquests.independent.gov.uk/ I've read it and agree with it all except for question 7. Supporters couldn't reasonably forseen the extent of the consequences but I still believe their was a behavioural aspect.It's a forum, I'm not bound by the jury's decision. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Snelders Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 I've read it and agree with it all except for question 7. Supporters couldn't reasonably forseen the extent of the consequences but I still believe their was a behavioural aspect. It's a forum, I'm not bound by the jury's decision. Fair point,and neither am I bound by their decision- though I've followed this case closely enough to agree with them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 That's what happens when people are blinkered/racist/bigoted I'm afraid.You'll have to point out any evidence of that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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