H_B Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Also what relevance does Heysel have to this thread? That's correct, absolutely none, Wrong. The reason Heysel is important is because there is a question of consistency. The Liverpool fanbase, and ex-players, has for years smeared other English fans, the Italians who weren't even there, the Italians who were there, the Belgian police, UEFA - everyone else, rather than accept that the disaster was caused by their own hooligans. That sets a standard. Every incident should be treated on its own merits of course. But there is no doubt that the disgraceful attempted victim smearing by the Liverpool fans after Heysel leaves a bad taste in the mouth and it makes their demands for justice following Hillsborough hollow. Albeit it is a large fanbase and they shouldn't be tarred with the brush of each other. But there is no question (and we saw the same thing last year with the Suarez incident) that Liverpool fans have and will deflect blame from themselves at any opportunity, whilst being more than happy to take the moral high ground the day after when blame should be issued elsewhere. They are the ultimate hypocrits in my view. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKMAN Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Do they not realise their best player comes from Liverpool? Robin Van Persie certainly doesn't sound scouse 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Nice touch from Everton tonight. Couldnt see Liverpool doing the same though if the roles had been reserved 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab B Nesbit Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) Nice touch from Everton tonight. Couldnt see Liverpool doing the same though if the roles had been reserved Can you not remember the family of Rhys Jones on the pitch at Anfield and the theme from Z Cars? Edited September 17, 2012 by Rab B Nesbit -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) Can you not remember the family of Rhys Jones on the pitch at Anfield and the theme from Z Cars? I remember this http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3vv6x_heysel-disaster-liverpool-v-juventu_sport Edited September 17, 2012 by Enrico Annoni -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Nice touch from Everton tonight. Couldnt see Liverpool doing the same though if the roles had been reserved Liverpool and Everton have a fantastic rivalry. I love the whole 1 brother wearing blue and the other one wears red on derby day and they sit beside each other. Obviously there were Evertonians effected by the Hillsborough disaster aswell. They will have lost friends and family that day. I don't know the in's and out's but the disaster seems to have brought the City together. The Ibrox disaster didn't exactly bring the OF together did it? So classless and tacky, both sets of fans should take a look at the Scouse derby and be ashamed of themselves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Wrong. The reason Heysel is important is because there is a question of consistency. The Liverpool fanbase, and ex-players, has for years smeared other English fans, the Italians who weren't even there, the Italians who were there, the Belgian police, UEFA - everyone else, rather than accept that the disaster was caused by their own hooligans. That sets a standard. Every incident should be treated on its own merits of course. But there is no doubt that the disgraceful attempted victim smearing by the Liverpool fans after Heysel leaves a bad taste in the mouth and it makes their demands for justice following Hillsborough hollow. Albeit it is a large fanbase and they shouldn't be tarred with the brush of each other. But there is no question (and we saw the same thing last year with the Suarez incident) that Liverpool fans have and will deflect blame from themselves at any opportunity, whilst being more than happy to take the moral high ground the day after when blame should be issued elsewhere. They are the ultimate hypocrits in my view. Consistency doesn't mean that the families, relatives, friends of the victims, and to a lesser extent others who were there that day, and decent football fans in general, and taxpayers of this country, are denied justice because of your, or anyone else's, percieved bad taste due to comments made by someone else about a different incident, just because they might happen to support the same football team. Consistency should mean bringing those responsible to face justice. Not covering up for 23 years, paying some off on enhanced pensions. It should mean taking the correct actions,just like after Heysel, when the government were quick to round up and deport some of those involved to face manslaughter charges. Should have been more. There are plenty of LFC fans who agree with that. You can no doubt point to some examples of deflection.. there will always be some defensiveness. You can't deny the many more who were shamed by the hooligans in their "own" supports, and those who were embarrased and shamed even watching similar at football grounds up and down the country at the time..shamed that it was going on around football and wanting the whole lot dealt with, not this point scoring of this lot are worse than our lot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Consistency doesn't mean that the families, relatives, friends of the victims, and to a lesser extent others who were there that day, and decent football fans in general, and taxpayers of this country, are denied justice because of your, or anyone else's, percieved bad taste due to comments made by someone else about a different incident, just because they might happen to support the same football team. Correct. Just as well no one has said anything of the sort. You can't deny the many more who were shamed by the hooligans in their "own" supports, and those who were embarrased and shamed even watching similar at football grounds up and down the country at the time..shamed that it was going on around football and wanting the whole lot dealt with, not this point scoring of this lot are worse than our lot. Actually, I do deny that. I am willing to bet I can point you towards far more "deflect...deflect...deflect" Liverpool fans' accounts of Heysel than you can point me towards "disgusted by their own fans' scumbaggery" Liverpool fans' accounts of Heysel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Regardless of who said what post Heysel, every fan of every club that took delight in rioting, fighting etc pre Hillsborough must bear some responsibility for creating the conditions that caused that terrible day, doesn't exempt the apparent negligence of those involved that day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Regardless of who said what post Heysel, every fan of every club that took delight in rioting, fighting etc pre Hillsborough must bear some responsibility for creating the conditions that caused that terrible day, doesn't exempt the apparent negligence of those involved that day. Yeah, I think Highland Dogma made this point earlier. It certainly contributed to the way fans were policed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Dogma Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Yeah, I think Highland Dogma made this point earlier. It certainly contributed to the way fans were policed. And in addition to the fences and policing it allowed the police and press to cone up with disgraceful lies which seemed feasible to the public at large. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryfield Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Alex Thomson v Kelvin McKenzie. The doorstep challenge. Ha Ha. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Alex Thomson v Kelvin McKenzie. The doorstep challenge. Ha Ha. That is shoddy as hell from Thomson. It takes rank idiocy to make Kelvin Mackenzie look like the victim yet that's what he did with the car door incident. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larbert_Par Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Nice touch from Everton tonight. Couldnt see Liverpool doing the same though if the roles had been reserved Can you not remember the family of Rhys Jones on the pitch at Anfield and the theme from Z Cars? Yeah, this. The Rhys Jones situation was obviously different but LFC played Z Cars, which was widely applauded, and Rhys' family took to the pitch in their Everton shirts and scarves. It was a terrific gesture. While on derby day rivalry is intense and everyone wants to win - certainly, when I'm at the game I roar my disapproval at everything in Red - families are split between both clubs and when things like these happen, it brings everyone together in gaining a sense of perspective. A huge number of Evertonians were affected by what happened in 1989 so I wasn't surprised but immensely proud of the tribute last night - the club did a marvellous job. It could quite easily have been Everton or another club affected and I've no doubt Liverpool would've rallied round Everton in a similar way had things been the other way. With this, Merseyside really is united. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musketeer Gripweed Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 First time I've attached a pdf file on here, don't know if it works. First contact on the day between the police and fire service. Surreal to say the least. SYP.pdf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Correct. Just as well no one has said anything of the sort. Glad you clarified that. Actually, I do deny that. I am willing to bet I can point you towards far more "deflect...deflect...deflect" Liverpool fans' accounts of Heysel than you can point me towards "disgusted by their own fans' scumbaggery" Liverpool fans' accounts of Heysel. Sorry, I contributed to the suggestion of that needless point scoring exercise - it detracts from my point. Yes, you will find plenty who mention other factors which you can consider as deflections, if it suits you to. Example- The fact that the ground was a crumbling hole isn't relevant if noone fights - noone gets hurt. Once there was trouble, it's a huge factor in the safety of everyone there- including the innocent fans. Is it a deflection to mention factors relevant to the security of the paying customer - no. Can you point me instead towards the ones who have said that anyone from the UK (or the Liverpool fans) guilty of provoking or taking part in the violence should not be brought to justice and held accountable for their own personal actions? BTW, my whole problem with this is the labelling of the "Liverpool fanbase" or any other clubs fans or football fans in general based on whatever idiots are in there midst. That attitude had a huge part in the fences being put up in grounds in the first place. If you find anyone with the view in the question above - ****'em, but they dont represent anyone i know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Documentary on channel 5 just now 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyle Lanley Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Alex Thomson is a legend 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Sorry, I contributed to the suggestion of that needless point scoring exercise - it detracts from my point. Yes, it's really inconvenient when you stop into a thread, and immediately make a dreadful point that you have to beep-beep-beep backtrack from. I'm glad we can move past your hilarious initial claim though, and you have surrendered it gracefully. As I said, you will have to search far and wide to find Liverpool fans who blame, umm, Liverpool fans, for Heysel. A disaster which was primarily caused by Liverpool fans' behaviour. That says an awful lot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 From what I read elsewhere it seems to have been along the lines of "always the victims, it's never your fault." Crass and extremely tasteless without a doubt, especially when fans of just about every other club have been showing their support for the victims of Hillsborough and their families over the weekend. Criminal though? Extremely doubtful IMO. Were they singing this at Greater Manchester Police last night? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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