Yoss Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I have detailed, verbatim, exactly what Taylor said. Taylor said the behaviour of the Liverpool fans (a minority) exacerbated the crushes. Do you, or do you not, dispute this? Are you attempting to put forward a definition of "exacerbated" that isn't "made it worse"? Sorry, thread's moved on somewhat since I was list here so I won't try and get this one going again, I think we've both alredy said anything we have to say on crowd dynamics and how crushes happen. Yes, pushing exacerbates it, that's a straighforward truism. Yes some fans were pushing, of course they were. The gloss you put on it, on which we disagree, was whether or not that pushing amounted to people "behaving like arseholes". You seem to be reading something more serious into the use of the term pushing than I would. Given, as we now know, that Taylor was working with witness statements which had been systematically doctored, it's a credit to him that he nonetheless had so little criticism of the crowd. This week's report, working off the original documents, is even clearer. Not that I'm going to pretend I've read right through it yet, but in summary at least, it's unequivocal. On the first page of this thread there are various posts saying the truth probably lies somewhere in between. In many other issues in public life, I'd say that's often a reasonable position to take, but this is not one of them. And if anyone didn't know that before there's no excuse for not knowing it now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 So, I have sky sports news on in the background here and have not long heard a bit of chat about Man U fans singing about Hillsborough yesterday despite being told not to. Then some guy comes on and says that it shouldn't matter if there are 5,000 people singing it, there should be CCTV picking them out and they should all be prosecuted. What exactly would they be prosecuted with? Offending Liverpool fans. Something needs to be done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Offending Liverpool fans. Something needs to be done. Always the victims .... -5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 That's nothing to do with which club it happens to be. United are similarly unhappy about Munich songs, and justifiably so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrif John Bunnell Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 #JFT5000 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) I've never heard anyone demanding prosecutions about it. It was journalist Patrick Barclay, rather than anyone to do with Liverpool FC. In fact, I'm sure Barclay made some stupid comments on Twitter about Hillsborough not that long ago and got the usual treatment for it. Actually, having checked, it was Heysel he tweeted about when he let a Liverpool fan wind him up. Asked if he could get any lower than taking Murdoch's cash, he responded by saying he could, for example by being in a crowd that killed 39 people. He deleted it pretty quickly and started apologising but it didn't go down well, as you can imagine! Edited September 16, 2012 by Radford 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kincardine Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) That's nothing to do with which club it happens to be. United are similarly unhappy about Munich songs, and justifiably so. There is, though, a big difference between, "bad taste" and "crime". There is also too much filming and policing of football fans and too great a desire for other fans to be 'lifted' because we don't like their songs/chants. I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that the only acceptable way of 'noising up' the opposition is soon to become either polite clapping or singing "Do(e) a fucking Deer". Edited September 16, 2012 by Kincardine 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I thought that song was as much to do with the Suarez thing than anything else. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 What song were Man Utd fans singing? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 What song were Man Utd fans singing? You're always the victims.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 What song were Man Utd fans singing? From what I read elsewhere it seems to have been along the lines of "always the victims, it's never your fault." Crass and extremely tasteless without a doubt, especially when fans of just about every other club have been showing their support for the victims of Hillsborough and their families over the weekend. Criminal though? Extremely doubtful IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musketeer Gripweed Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 What I find strange about it, is United were playing Wigan at the time. Why sing anything about Liverpool at all? I've been at Old Trafford a few times over the last few years, my sister has season tickets I can get at any time, and it amazes me some of the stuff they come away with about Scousers when they are playing clubs with nothing to do with Merseyside. Do they not realise their best player comes from Liverpool? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab B Nesbit Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) Build a bonfire...in your Liverpool slums...feed the scousers...we it won it 3 times without killing anyone....every game, regardless of who their playing. Liverpool fans can expect to get shouted down by their own for singing about Man Utd when their not the opposition. Games between the two though it's a different story...mindless idiots on both sides. Unfortunately i doubt very much the recent calls from Fergie and Rodgers will change the behaviour of an unfortunately sizeable minority. Hope I'm wrong though. Edited September 16, 2012 by Rab B Nesbit -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magee84 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Build a bonfire...in your Liverpool slums...feed the scousers...we it won it 3 times without killing anyone....every game, regardless of who their playing. Liverpool fans can expect to get shouted down by their own for singing about Man Utd when their not the opposition. Games between the two though it's a different story...mindless idiots on both sides. Unfortunately i doubt very much the recent calls from Fergie and Rodgers will change the behaviour of an unfortunately sizeable minority. Hope I'm wrong though. Ive been at a couple and while the OF rivalry is more intense there is a really sinister feel to things at these fixtures. I assume its the same at OT but both games i attended were Anfield and it was pretty vile. Hillsborough/Munich chants from start to finish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junhinho Polyester Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 The Media do a great job for their paymasters of stirring up shit between rival football supporters. It is all part of the "divide and rule" policy that the wealthy elite use to keep themselves safely up on their pedestals looking down upon football supporters who they consider to be mostly working class scum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab B Nesbit Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) Ive been at a couple and while the OF rivalry is more intense there is a really sinister feel to things at these fixtures. I assume its the same at OT but both games i attended were Anfield and it was pretty vile. Hillsborough/Munich chants from start to finish. Just the same magee. Usually get locked in at Old Trafford for a good half hour - 45 mins after to let the home crowd get off. The Hillsborough chants, pushing actions and pretend squashed faces are answered with Munich chants and aeroplane hands. All very sad. The Man Utd fans point to chants from the Kop in the 70/80's about Munich - too young to remember personally - but by accounts true. Edited September 16, 2012 by Rab B Nesbit -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only coo in the village Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Some very strange and deeply disturbing posts on these Liverpool threads. I just don't get it and I don't want to. I'm used to some sick stuff being posted in pie and bovril but there are some deeply disturbed individuals on here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy85 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Is it not widely accepted that United and Liverpool fans are utter cretins? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heedthebaa Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Just the same magee. Usually get locked in at Old Trafford for a good half hour - 45 mins after to let the home crowd get off. The Hillsborough chants, pushing actions and pretend squashed faces are answered with Munich chants and aeroplane hands. All very sad. The Man Utd fans point to chants from the Kop in the 70/80's about Munich - too young to remember personally - but by accounts true. Fucking hell Rab, you're gonna have me crying for you if you keep this up. "are answered" really ? Lol never your fault, always the victim. I'm old enough to remember different 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Yes, pushing exacerbates it, that's a straighforward truism. That's right. Which is why your attempts to pretend it wasn't were so strange. The gloss you put on it, on which we disagree, was whether or not that pushing amounted to people "behaving like arseholes". You seem to be reading something more serious into the use of the term pushing than I would. Perhaps we have different standards of what is acceptable behaviour. If I am standing behind you in a queue for a gig let's say, and I keep pushing you in the back and say "come on mate, let's get a move on.. times marching on"... "for f**k's sake...let's speed it up eh" etc. do you just chuckle and say "Rascal"? Or do you say/think "Shut the f**k up you p***k.. I'm moving as fast as I can and stop shoving me!" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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