HibeeJibee Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 (edited) Tbf, the recent Valley Parade fire theory - some have said conspiracy theory - is on a totally different level to Hillsborough. There is plentiful evidence - now conclusively established - of what went wrong at Hillsborough, and I haven't seen anyone claim it was a deliberate act, i.e. that there was actually an intent to create a deadly crush as opposed to negligence and incompetence. What the author of the recent book about Valley Parade "infers" is that it was deliberate arson in an insurance fraud, the main plank of the argument founded on the fact that the chairman had been involved in previous fire insurance cases? Even if the immediate rebuttals - that the stand was not heavily insured, that it was about to be demolished anyway and that police were understood to have identified a man who dropped a cigarette and started it - are wrong: the implication is that a person or persons set it alight while it was full of people on the last day of the season, when burning it down any other day or time could presumably have had the same insurance outcome, without trying to ensure everyone could escape (e.g. by unbarring blocked exits), and managed to keep it secret despite 56 people perishing in the blaze. If it's true, it's a sensation on a scale which would put Hillsborough in the shade. It takes a leap into what many would think incomprehensible. Edited April 28, 2016 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I was asking a question, hence the question mark. You think I'm stupid because I have a different opinion than you? So you base my intelligence on one factor without knowing anything about me. Wow that smacks of someone oozing intelligence I think it's the voicing of an opinion which has been successfully challenged followed by tantrums and name calling which people are using as evidence to support the view that you are in fact as thick as a superglue milkshake. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thereisalight.. Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I think it's the voicing of an opinion which has been successfully challenged followed by tantrums and name calling which people are using as evidence to support the view that you are in fact as thick as a superglue milkshake. My gripe is with the way the families have acted, not about the findings. Although I refuse to believe that none of the fans there that day didnt push at any point leading up to the tragedy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 My gripe is with the way the families have acted, not about the findings. Although I refuse to believe that none of the fans there that day didnt push at any point leading up to the tragedy. I'd be ashamed of my family if they just folded like a bad hand rather than fought my corner. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I'd never miss a chance to take a swing at sevco, but throbbers throbbing about this anti-liverpool ergo pro-rangers guff is embarrassing and laughable shite. Hardly - just not surprising for Rangers supporters to criticise the actions of others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thereisalight.. Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I'd be ashamed of my family if they just folded like a bad hand rather than fought my corner. There's fighting your corner and whoring yourself to the press. Justice can be fought away from the glare of the media 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 My gripe is with the way the families have acted, not about the findings. Although I refuse to believe that none of the fans there that day didnt push at any point leading up to the tragedy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 There's fighting your corner and whoring yourself to the press. Justice can be fought away from the glare of the media Tell us all how they managed to win. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 My gripe is with the way the families have acted, not about the findings. Although I refuse to believe that none of the fans there that day didnt push at any point leading up to the tragedy. What we're saying (and apologies if I'm making assumptions about speaking for everyone here) is that there would be no findings if the families hadn't kicked up a fuss or rammed it down our throats. Here for example, you said "people know there was cover ups". I just don't see what it can achieve. They've got "justice". People know there was cover ups, people know who was doing the cover ups. What more can be done? How did we know? How did we find out? If it was up to stupid and weak people like you we'd be none the wiser. Eat your cereal, this is obviously just a bit above your reading age. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thereisalight.. Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I have no problem is being going for "justice" but as I've said many times, there is ways of doing things 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy boo Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I assume it relates to this? ETA: Reading the link I just quoted, I noticed this from the judge who overseen the Bradford fire inquiry: Cheers Ross. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 There's fighting your corner and whoring yourself to the press. Justice can be fought away from the glare of the media They tried fighting their corner, and were basically told to f**k off by SYP, the government and the Taylor report. How would they have ever got to where they finally did the other day without using the media? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s_dog Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I think a few people in this thread could do with having a quick read of the BBC article Five Hillsborough myths dispelled http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-35473732 Incredible, and tragic to think that that bizzare set of circumstances led, in part to a whole chain of events with such a horrific outcome That's quite often how these things happen. A catalogue of errors or oversights all combine to make tragic outcomes. When we get fire safety training at work they often use one of the care home fires (think it might be Rosepark in Uddingston about 10 or so years ago?). No proper fire evacuation plan, no fire drills, care home didn't have priority status with fire brigade, no individual evacuation plans, combustible material stored in a cupboard next to electrical board, no proper maintenance of electrical board, all further compounded by staff waiting ten minutes before phoning fire brigade because they had to check and see if it was an actual fire first, then the fire brigade went to the wrong entrance causing further delay, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted April 28, 2016 Author Share Posted April 28, 2016 I have no problem is being going for "justice" but as I've said many times, there is ways of doing thingsGo on then, elaborate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thereisalight.. Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Go on then, elaborate. Why am I having to repeat myself? I've said numerous times. Personally I'd have campaigned away from the media more than the Hillsborough families did 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Rogic Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I can be called many things but stupid isn't one of them. It most certainly is I can assure you 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted April 28, 2016 Author Share Posted April 28, 2016 Why am I having to repeat myself? I've said numerous times. Personally I'd have campaigned away from the media more than the Hillsborough families didCampaigned away from the media? Impossible given it was the biggest loss of life at a sporting event in the UK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Every so often there's a thread on P&B that goes beyond the joking and sarky remarks and even the usual level of poor taste and becomes something more toxic. Sadly this is such a thread. Posters still trying to blame the fans after their exoneration or the families for keeping this fight in the public eye when it was that very tactic that led to the present outcome are fairly despicable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcor Roar Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Despicable yes. If there is a mitigating factor for Thereisalight then it is that he is clearly thick as f**k. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 There's fighting your corner and whoring yourself to the press. Justice can be fought away from the glare of the media The BBC on Anne Williams, one of the most vocal and recognisable Hillsborough campaigners and the subject of a new documentary on the families' quest for justice: "Anne Williams was convinced 15-year-old Kevin was alive after 3.15pm on the day he died. Incensed by the inquest verdict, she set out to find out the truth. She traced people who tried to help him, including a special constable who recalled Kevin saying the word "mum" at 4pm. In a 20-year campaign for fresh inquests, she earned praise for her fierce determination. One MP said: "Her relentless pursuit of justice for her son personified the unyielding bond of a mother's love for her child."" What's your opinion of Anne, Thereisalight..,? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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