Lex Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Err...it's unsubstantiated because he hasn't played at EPL level? If he went to the EPL and failed miserably, then it becomes substantiated. Until then, it's unsubstantiated. Simples. So it's unsubstantiated saying I'm not good enough for EPL level because i haven't played there? There's hope for us all! Lambert and holt will never do it at international level because they will never be picked (Rooney, Wellbeck, Sturridge etc all playing at bigger clubs and well ahead in the pecking order), so the analogy collapses there I'm afraid. No it doesn't. If they were good enough to do it international level, they'd get caps. They aren't, so they don't. If they were Scottish they'd get caps, but they wouldn't do it for us. They are not international class footballers. Neither is Jordan Rhodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 So it's unsubstantiated saying I'm not good enough for EPL level because i haven't played there? There's hope for us all! That's a laughably specious comeback. Are you a professional footballer and the second top scorer in the championship? Try again. No it doesn't. If they were good enough to do it international level, they'd get caps. They aren't, so they don't. If they were Scottish they'd get caps, but they wouldn't do it for us. They are not international class footballers. Neither is Jordan Rhodes. Okay doke. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/unsubstantiated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Paul Lambert was MOM in a Champions League final. Darren Fletcher was an integral part of a Man U side in and about the EPL and CL every season. Quite why people hear "world class" and think "Maradona" as if you'd need to be in a World XI to qualify is beyond me. "World class" means that you'd fit into good teams, not that you're the absolute best right back that's ever strode the Earth or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Paul Lambert was MOM in a Champions League final. Darren Fletcher was an integral part of a Man U side in and about the EPL and CL every season. Quite why people hear "world class" and think "Maradona" as if you'd need to be in a World XI to qualify is beyond me. "World class" means that you'd fit into good teams, not that you're the absolute best right back that's ever strode the Earth or something. Where you are getting your definition from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Where you are getting your definition from? All this hand-wringing about having not produced a "world class" player since the Seventies. If Barry Ferguson had been English then these same people would have been whining about how we'd never produced a Barry Ferguson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 If Barry Ferguson was English he'd have zero caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Fiction. Barry Ferguson was (is) a much better player than Scott (Scotty) Parker. And he has 18 caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 I fucking hate the term 'international class.' If you're one of the best players of your nationality in a position, you are international class. It's not like international football is one defined level where every team you play against is of a similar standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 If Barry Ferguson was English he'd have zero caps. Nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Ferguson was a class player for us. Just because he didn't make defence splitting passes all the time people called him a crab. Pretty sure Strachan would kill for a player like Barry in his prime just now, how valuable would he be going to places like Serbia and Croatia where we need to keep the ball for as long as possible? I think because he played for Rangers and missed a few friendly matches it pissed fans off too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 All this hand-wringing about having not produced a "world class" player since the Seventies. If Barry Ferguson had been English then these same people would have been whining about how we'd never produced a Barry Ferguson. Yeah it's a bit of a misalignment. Either: a) World class means an earth XI, in which case, there would probably be no Scottish players, ever in it. or b) World class means, what, capable of playing in sides that compete to win their leagues and play regularly in the latter stages of european competition? If so then yes, we have produced a few such players in the last twenty years. However, I go with definition a, because definition b is woolly as feck and opens up neverending debates like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Really it's a farce that Ferguson only got 45 caps for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestersKTID Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 So it's unsubstantiated saying I'm not good enough for EPL level because i haven't played there? There's hope for us all! Neither is Jordan Rhodes. Are or were you ever a pro footballer playing at a decent level? (fifa,pes and football manager don't count) Rhodes needs a chance to prove he can do it at EPL and international level. If he gets a move to a WBA, Sunderland or Everton and plays but doesnt score then he's not good enough. Unfortunately theres every chance he could be another David Nugent or Andy Johnson, score for fun in Championship but not the Prem. But he could bang in the goals aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 If Barry Ferguson was English he'd have zero caps. Nonsense. Which two top English sides snapped him up, I forget? Was it Man U and Arsenal? Scott Parker is twice the player of Ferguson that's not even a debate, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Which two top English sides snapped him up, I forget? Was it Man U and Arsenal? Scott Parker is twice the player of Ferguson that's not even a debate, in my opinion. ROFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Which two top English sides snapped him up, I forget? Was it Man U and Arsenal? Scott Parker is twice the player of Ferguson that's not even a debate, in my opinion. ROFL. Wow. Oscar Wilde, I thought you were dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 That's a laughably specious comeback. Are you a professional footballer and the second top scorer in the championship? Try again. Okay doke. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/unsubstantiated So you're saying every single player who is currently playing in the Championship maybe good enough for the EPL? It's unsubstantiated to say they aren't? .... Seriously? Jordan Rhodes is 23, he should be coming into his prime. He's never played for a club who's finished in the top half of the Championship, never mind the EPL. Numerous strikers younger than him are regular players and scorers in the Premier League. He won't be leaving this summer either, no team rates him highly enough to pay what Rovers paid for him. Do you genuinely believe he has what it takes to make it at the top level? By top level i don't mean fannying about in a relegation battle with Norwich or West Brom or something. By top level i mean regularly score goals in the Champions League and with Scotland in competitive full internationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Which two top English sides snapped him up, I forget? Was it Man U and Arsenal? Scott Parker is twice the player of Ferguson that's not even a debate, in my opinion. Complete non-sequitur. I doubt you'd be in the majority view on that second point, so it very much is a debate. Albeit a particularly pointless one, but this is the internet after all. Seth Johnson got an England cap. Gavin McCann got an England cap. I'd suggest Barry Ferguson's a better player than Gareth Barry as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Which two top English sides snapped him up, I forget? Was it Man U and Arsenal? Scott Parker is twice the player of Ferguson that's not even a debate, in my opinion. Correct. Barry Ferguson was a horrible footballer who was punted by Blackburn because he wasn't good enough. In his early 30's, a supposed prime for players of his style, he couldn't even get a game for Blackpool for goodness sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Wow. Oscar Wilde, I thought you were dead? ROFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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